Homosexuality

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Ok, this is not in response to the above posts, but something I'd just like to say on the topic;

While people constantly talk about people being treated "as equals", I do disagree with those that use this to start being treated beyond equals and actually as special cases. This doesn't really specifically apply to the homosexual community, but they do have a habit of doing this a lot. Many members of different religions also do similar things.
I really get annoyed by those who start to make a big point about their sexuality, like everyone didnt know or like everyone didnt agree with equality. In other words, I hate those that attention seek because of it or bring extra attention to it "in the name of equality". Do we see heterosexuals shouting out about their sexuality? Not really, most people wont and dont care.

Perhaps some people bring the negativity towards their sexuality on to themselves by going on about it all the time, because, as far as I can see, we currently live in quite an open society, especially compared to a few decades ago. Although, yes, governments and churches and such are still run by idiots who still wish to make an issue of homosexuality, the general public and especially the younger generations seem to be a lot more accepting and just really dont care - that is, a live and let live attitude, not a "dont care about equality" attitude.

In conclusion, I suppose Im just annoyed at, once again, the minority, who like to skew the reality and get everyone arguing.
 
Whilst I do sympathise with your point of view, Ardius, I do think that there has been a point where the need to bang the drum and make a noise about your sexuality was a necessity. You have made a point yourself that the younger generations seem to be a lot more accepting and just really dont care  - but this was not always the case and perhaps that the noise made was to get people's attention, and for them (those that quite possibly failed to accept it) to just simply get used to it.
 
Well, yeah, of course there was a time when it was necessary, but nowadays? Its a case of "yeah, we know, you feel you are being treated different, well you arent, so stop acting like an ass and just be normal". People are being treated like everyone else and ironically expecting more. This is what annoys me.
For example, people crack gay jokes, just like they crack religious jokes or any other joke..yet these people will take offense as if they are being treated differently, when this in fact is being treated normally (Im not talking about offensive jokes here, just silly ones, in jest, just like mates do)

But, like I said before, Im probably just getting annoyed at the minority again.
 
It all comes back to where you're at.  Minority rights are a terribly, terribly important thing to consider at any time.  Some areas have this mostly under control, but most don't.  We are lucky - many places in the west are becoming more and more equal.  But homosexuality, in particular, is one of those things where societal acceptance does not equal personal acceptance.  IE, it's okay for a person to say "hey, it's okay that they're gay," but what happens when their child, brother, sister, etc. comes out of the closet?  The exact opposite is certainly possible.

It will take a long time for the majority of people to accept that one in 10 people are gay, bisexual, transgendered, or lean to one of those aspects, and that this is a normal and expected part of human behaviour.  Until then, showing "pride" in the fact that the minority exists will be important, otherwise people may feel pressure, rejected, persecuted in the small level, etc.  I can name many people who are openly gay or bi with their friends but are absolutely petrified to tell their family, because their family doesn't "hold with such things".  Having a strong and active community is integral to both pushing towards wider acceptance AND encouraging people to live their lives the way they are meant to be lived.
 
Ardius said:
For example, people crack gay jokes, just like they crack religious jokes or any other joke..yet these people will take offense as if they are being treated differently, when this in fact is being treated normally (Im not talking about offensive jokes here, just silly ones, in jest, just like mates do)
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I find most of your posts shocking... but this is something I can relate to. I am one who is of the opinion that nothing is sacred in the name of humor. I'll tell a racist joke as quickly and with as much gusto as I'll tell one about drunks, pregnant teenagers and dead babies. However, I have noticed most people don't share this opinion. More often than not people who crack homophobic jokes or racist jokes, either have some resentment towards the particular target or honestly flat out hate them and telling a joke is a "safe" way of voicing their hate.
 
While I agree that although its less of an issue than it once was and it is still one for people to push for, I think its getting to a point where it will have a negative affect.
Some people have already accepted it and are getting tired of hearing it over and over, like we havent accepted it.

I will always agree that everyone should be treated equal and that homosexuals should be accepted into society, however, I feel its getting to a point where some people dont realise they already have equality.

I suppose I just have to be reminded that there are people out there that are still treated as outsiders or do not feel equal, but sometimes I get tired of hearing the "same old" and wonder whether its really necessary anymore?
Ah well, thats what this place is for.  :ok:

Onhell said:
I find most of your posts shocking... but this is something I can relate to. I am one who is of the opinion that nothing is sacred in the name of humor. I'll tell a racist joke as quickly and with as much gusto as I'll tell one about drunks, pregnant teenagers and dead babies. However, I have noticed most people don't share this opinion. More often than not people who crack homophobic jokes or racist jokes, either have some resentment towards the particular target or honestly flat out hate them and telling a joke is a "safe" way of voicing their hate.
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Then in that case, I assure you that I also treat humour in the same way. If I cannot joke with them about their sexuality, how am I treating them equally? Ok, I would always apologise (or not even joke about it, if I knew before hand) to people that found it personally offensive if they felt insecure about it, but I would never mean it with the intention of highlighting it just because its different or if I or someone else resented it.
I am of the opinion that if I joke with mates and I gain a new friend, I'll treat them the same, within reason.
 
Ardius said:
I will always agree that everyone should be treated equal and that homosexuals should be accepted into society, however, I feel its getting to a point where some people dont realise they already have equality.
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I don't feel homosexuals do have equality, not even close.  I also don't feel that most minority groups, plus women, have equality, though some are becoming closer than others.
 
LooseCannon said:
I don't feel homosexuals do have equality, not even close.  I also don't feel that most minority groups, plus women, have equality, though some are becoming closer than others.
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I feel that some do, but dont realise it. I forget not everyone does, but those that I know, are treated equally. At least by friends and others, perhaps not all of society does.

I never meant to imply that all homosexuals are treated equal, I was just saying that those that I know of are and hence why I end up with a view that perhaps some of the "equality for everyone" messages are over the top. I simply need to be reminded that that is not the case. That is why I like this and other forums, because I can read views and opinions from other perspectives and situations and remind myself that not everywhere is the same as where I am. Its a stupid thing to think, but it happens.
 
Ardius said:
At least by friends and others, perhaps not all of society does.
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That was the point LC was making - and I think you may have realised this in your thoughts shared after this statement. It's easy to say in my circle of friends, we are all equal and so on, but in reality and broadly speaking, there will always be some sort of division.
 
U.S. House of Representatives weighs overturning 'don't ask, don't tell'

The US House of Representatives is considering overturning their discriminatory "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy regarding the service of homosexuals in the United States Armed Forces.  I don't know what other nations are like, but in Canada, it was only about 10 years ago that restrictions similar to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" were removed.  A close friend of my dad's came out of the closet shortly thereafter.  He was promptly hounded out of the Navy by a homophobic Lieutenant in his department, who was actually dishonourably discharged in the end.  But dad says there are still a lot of officers and NCOs, older folks specifically, who are distrustful of homosexuals and it will take a whole generation to purge the service of the majority of these officers.

What do you guys think?
 
That is a tough one.  I am thinking that every generation becomes more tolerant.  I guess, the sooner that it becomes acknowledged, the sooner people will get used to it.  Do you think that if they waited until some of the 'older folks' retired, it'd be an easier transition?  Hmm, or would the next generation of older folks still be distrustful...
 
I believe it is a matter of time, but you do have to build consciousness, time by itself won't do crap. The best example I can find is the incredibly racist older people I've encountered or the not so old IGNORANT people. But in the high school I attended here in Tucson in one class I was blown away by the fact that a white girl and a black girl were best friends. Most of the people I went to school with were much more tolerant than "older" generations.

Another example. My mom and dad seemingly have no issues with homosexuals. They both have had/have gay friends, respect them etc. But my dad would shoot me if I get piercings of any kind and they would both probably kill themselves if I or my brother ever turn out to be gay. So homosexuality to them is ok as long as it's not in the family.

I on the other hand could care less if my children (IF I ever have any) are gay.
 
I have a couple of friends who are in ROTC, that college pre-army training thing Americans have and I would be very happy to see the "don't ask don't tell" policy overturned. This isn't because I know gay ROTC people, but because some gay people I know would very much have liked to be in ROTC, but can't because of this policy. As Onhell says, the whole thing is a matter of time, but you have to start building consciousness sometime, and if not now, when?

And as for homosexuals and the whole equality question that Ardius was addressing...I'll be the first to admit that there are many homosexuals who whine. I'm not one of them, but I know many, and they're all American. I suppose the tendency is the more equality you have, the more likely it is that you will whine about every slightly discriminatory thing you encounter. However, I would like to point out that there are many places in the world where homosexuals are NOT treated equally, quiet the contrary. And as LC says, I'm not entirely convinced that gays are treated so equally by society as a WHOLE. Massachussetts is very tolerant, but Austria on the other hand...not so much. It is important that minority issues are constantly brought up, lest the majority forget about them. This goes for all minorities, racial, gender, you name it.
 
I personally don't agree with homosexuality. I believe that it is a choice, not something that someone is born with.
 
Jordan said:
I personally don't agree with homosexuality. I believe that it is a choice, not something that someone is born with.
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Yes, and where has open-mindedness ever gotten anyone.
 
Jordan said:
I believe that it is a choice, not something that someone is born with.
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I believe this idea is a choice (one of the most narrowminded ones a human ever can make), not something that someone is born with.
 
And I think he's entitled to it as misinformed and narrow-minded as it is... I wonder if he even read the whole thread...
 
Knowledge is power. But on forums? I am starting to doubt it. In fact, sometimes it's better to know nothing. A lack of knowledge (misinformation) can turn into a powerful excuse. A shield to cover a person('s "innocent" ideas).

Err sorry my dear fellow-forummers, sometimes I have my cynical, dark moods....

    <_<


I personally don't agree with homophobia. I believe that it is a choice, not something that someone is born with.
 
Onhell said:
And I think he's entitled to it as misinformed and narrow-minded as it is... I wonder if he even read the whole thread...
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He probably didn't. And yeah he's entitled to it, I'd just love him to quantify it instead of just saying "I don't agree with it". Forostar, I don't think just because you're misinformed means you are automatically homophobic, give the guy a chance. :)
 
And I think he's entitled to it as misinformed and narrow-minded as it is... I wonder if he even read the whole thread...
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Aren't you all narrow-minded for not granting the possibility that homosexuality is a biological syndrome (going bald, born with a missing toe, pimple on the cheek...)?

There are theories dissmissed by one side, preferred by another. Also studies regarding homo/hetero parentship, again one side supports it, another doesn't (i'm talking about practice here, opinions by biologists and sociologists). Until someone proves either, we should be open for anything. However, we all have preferences of our own, and i'll lean towards it's a syndrome side, you lean towards it's the way nature wanted side.

I'm just saying i believe that it's a syndrome, just like being born with a slight physical difference. Nothing to worry about, it won't kill you or block your normal life, someone can have bad opinion about it but you shouldn't care.

Regarding gay parades, i'll sum my previous rant in couple of sentences. I don't want to see half naked people dressed like clowns making mess around the city. I don't want my future child to see such images, regardless of their sexuality/cause. I couldn't care less if it was gay parade or food industry workers parade. There are (or should be) certain rules how you should dress / behave in public.

About homo parentship, it's just a thing of having a man and woman bringing up a child. Men are different than women, and sometimes one is more suitable in a given situation. So if a hetero combination is 10e^-17 % better, it's still better, no matter the margin.
 
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