Homosexuality

[Forostar]

Yes, that's true, but we're debating homosexuality in the eyes of the society.

The society? And what is that then?

A society ruled by your parents? By my parents? By your teachers and schoolbooks? By mine?

You were (most probably) brought up in such a different manner with such different norms and values. So we might as well throw "The Society" directly to the dustbin. Or would you want to define it?

Therefore, the statistical domain is the society in whole, not an individual.

Homosexuals should be regarded as humans with feelings, not statistics. "I am not a number, I am a free man" remember?

It's too simple (and too easy) to look at a minority group in a different way, just because they are with less people.

I am not "normal" in the group of 99 ravers, but i'm perfectly normal to myself, and as long as they are comfortable with my Maiden t-shirt, we're all going to have a good time.

Not when people stigmatize you and keep calling you "not normal".

Normality is just an analytical form. It doesn't represent wrong or right. And, there's no wrong or right in sexuality. It's just as it is.

Then what's the drive of calling these people "not normal"?

I know i've upset a bunch of people starting this topic, maybe it's time to elaborate myself. IMHO, homosexuality is an biochemical syndrome/condition,..

Would you try to explain us forummers why homosexuality is a biochemical syndrome/condition and why heterosexuality is not? Again the "law of minority"?

.. and such things can be altered if there's enough scientific interest.

Why would we want to alter people if they mean the world no harm?
Why not alter (change) homophobes instead?

Dude, welcome to Maidenfans.  Part of having a discussion here will involve being upset, or having other people upset at you.  But we're mostly all adults.  We've had the privilege of watching some of our members grow up into some pretty respectable people, too.  It's a bit of a family here, and sometimes we yell and scream but we always make up
in the end.  Right, Forostar?

We do our best, yes.

Now, Forostar and Zare are discussing an interesting nuance.  I believe their definitions of normal are actually somewhat different here.

To Zare, he is discussing normality within the human population.  IE: most people who live in Antigonish, NS, Canada are white.  Therefore, being white is *normal*.

Forostar is discussing what is normal to a person's self.  IE: I am left handed.  When I try to write with my right hand, this is abnormal.

However, as a left handed person in Antigonish, indeed, the world, I am abnormal.  I am not part of the average population.  I deviate from the norm.

As a white member of the populace from Antigonish, I am part of the norm.

LC, I understand what you want to point out but may I add something to clarify my view:

There is no skin-colournorm for people in Antigonish. All skin coloured people have the same rights, can live as free as they want, should be treated with the same amount of respect. So I'd like to repeat the vital part of my belief in this issue:

How can respect be the same when heterosexuals are called normal and homosexuals not normal? That's not possible.

So, gentlemen, let's take a look at what you are discussing here.

Zare is correct: the majority of the human populace is heterosexual.
Forostar is correct: our sexuality is normal to us. 

I mean to say both heterosexuality and homosexuality is normal to me.
Our own sexuality is indeed normal to us and that's why I have no problem with some else's sexuality. Someone else's sexuality is not my business, it's not my body, it's not my mind. I find it totally normal.

I like that example about handwriting!
Some decades ago left-handed people were forced to write right-handed on school. Now we've learned that's not necessary. So: why alter someone's sexuality? Purely for the sake of a hollow norm?

I know Zare, you speak of a choice to alter. But what about the propaganda around it? How honest will it be?
How scientific will the motivations be to change?

To change someone's sexuality is turning the problem upside down. Let's (try to) change the haters, or else punish them.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Why would we want to alter people if they mean the world no harm?
Why not alter (change) homophobes instead?

I don't want to alter anybody. I just think it would be nice for people to have mechanism of change. And yes, definetly change homophobes (and all other extremists, for that manner).

Regarding normality, this is the last time i'll discuss it :

Normality is a statistical form, it doesn't define right or wrong, or minority, or if you are an idiot, if you aren't, etc.

If you can't except the right meaning of word normal (in behavioural context), well, that's your problem.

 

[LooseCannon]

You're both arguing over an interpretation of the language, here.  Zare, the division of social science that deals primarily with what we're talking about is sociology, and they use the term "the norm" indeed to define what is and isn't average.  Many sociologists will argue about what "the norm" is, mind you, but the terminology is there.

Forostar is right - to lesser individuals, terms like normal and abnormal will assist in the stigmatization of *any* minority group.

So, I am asking you both to realize what is being said here.

 

[Forostar]

...Regarding normality, this is the last time i'll discuss it ...

Is the ground getting too hot under your feet? I asked you several questions to learn more about your ideas.
Since you refuse to (or can't!) answer most of them, the things you say have become even less convincing.
I'll save them for the next time, in case you come back with an upgraded version of these fairytales.

*copy, paste, save*

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Yeah, the known type of forum discussions where one always attacks and other has to defend to maintain the point. Well, not going to happen.

You've asked questions already answered. Your poor eyesight (or lack of comprehension) is not my problem. Good night.

 

[LooseCannon]

Official warning.  Both of you.

 

[Forostar]

LC, please ask the other mods what I have pm-ed you and them. Your inbox is full.

 

[Natalie]

I'm just gonna say that while I do consider homosexuality natural (it occurs in nature all the time), it isn't "normal" in the greater social context most of the time, because it is a minority. The only time it would be normal might be in San Francisco or some place where the majority are homosexual.

And Zare, I still don't understand your scientific choice thing, it still sounds homophobic and ignorant of just about everything that sexuality is about. Maybe this is all a language barrier problem.

 

[LooseCannon]

LC, please ask the other mods what I have pm-ed you and them. Your inbox is full.

Funny, it shouldn't be.  I'll clean it out.  Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Perun]

Because this thread keeps provoking the worst fights and is always on the verge of getting out of control, we have decided to lock it. If people would like to discuss the issue of homosexuality in the future, do it on a more peaceful premise and please show more respect to each other's viewpoints.