European Politics

Re: European Union

Hold on a second.  If the problem is too much spending, isn't that the problem is too much government spending? 
 
Re: European Union

That's probably a big part of it yes, though I haven't read the details yet. But do you have any other solutions? There will be international help, but Greece should take responsibility themselves as well. "Spending less" is the message, how else can this drama be turned?

venusmilobig_506702gm-a.jpg


Love that picture. :)

"Betrayers in the Euro-family"
 
Re: European Union


Oh no. Oh, please no.

That picture sparked a lot of outrage in Greece, and now all Greeks are revising their relations with Germany.

It's too much honour for this magazine, which ranks among the very scum of German journalism. It's one of the very worst and despicable publications I have ever had the misfortune of reading. A true insult to freedom of press.
 
Re: European Union

I realize the consequences, but I can see the humor of this picture as well. And there's more reality in it than one would think. With their spendingdrift -which they deliberately tried to conceal!- the Greek have wasted the trust and money the European Union has given them.
 
Re: European Union

Who are we talking about when we say "the Greeks"? I hardly doubt those people who clash with the police can be held responsible.

Anyway, I fail to see the humour in the picture, but I admit that is because my brain sets to "rage" when I read the title "Focus".
 
Re: European Union

Do I think every Greek is responsible?

No.

Do I wish that only the culprits should pay the price?

If possible, yes.

Is this going to happen, and even if they did, would it be enough to solve the problem?

Probably not.

Do I realize that the problem is so huge, and imminent, that it's difficult to exempt a huge working class, when taking measurements?

Yes.

Would it be handy, not only for Greece, but also for the rest of the European Union, or at least the Euro, if some more people with Greek citizenship would realize that?

Yes.
 
Re: European Union

I'm just happy I was able to understand it! It's been over 5 years since I've read/heard any German and I was able to understand the cover :)

Anyway, How can Greece's troubles hurt the Euro as a whole? I have not been following that too closely.
 
Re: European Union

Sort of. I'm not familiar enough with Fox News to say for sure, though.
 
Re: European Union

@ Foro: I'm under the impression that the whole "Euro" currency is flawed and cannot sustain itself, for the same reason is that welfare state is self-perpetuating.  In Canada for example, our employment insurance (EI) incourages unemployment.  The unemployment, of course, is increased during economic recessions, but even when the economy progresses and stabilizes, the unemployment is never as low is it was before the recession.  This is true in Ontario, which is supposed to be the most productive province, one of the three "have" provinces.  (Even though right now it certainly is not a "have" province).  This trend has been noticed.  Implicitly or not, intellectuals and politicians have noticed that people on EI have psychological changes.  They either feel less inclined for work or the work is not worth the extra pay and thus stay stuck in this unemployed cycle.  So the proposal to change this psychological problem was to simply change the stigma of the label.  What used to be called unemployment insurance (UI) is now called employment insurance.  See the neat trick?!  That little word play changed every motivating factor within individuals.  Right?  Of course not.  Before our current global recession, Canada's economy was actually experiencing labour shortages.  Once this global recession stabilizes, our baby boomers will continue to retire in bigger numbers and we will have even more labour shortages.  

What has this to do with EU?  Europe in general and traditionally is much more socialist than either Canada or USA and when economies dip, they feel the blow more than North Americans.  When governments promise all these welfare packages, they're counting on the economy working in perpetual improvements.  They're hoping that future productive work will not only keep up with at the current level but keep improving.  The problem with this is that incentive to work in lowered, when the govenment promises all these welfare packages.  When the economy suffers, the government has two basic choices: default on the promises that they realistically could never deliver in the first place or increase taxes which led them to deep economic issues in the first place.

Given that the EU is comprised of so many self-governed states, that do not have the same internal rules of governing and that much of the wealth sharing is based on deep trust with no legal way to restitute abuse of trust, there will be temptations to abuse it.  Much like there are temptations and actualities of abusing employment insurace.

The EU as a whole is stuck in a situation of damned if they do, damned if they don't.  If they help the Greeks, it shows that trust can be misued and there will be no negative repercussions.  If they don't help the Greeks, the Euro value will decrease as people will lose trust in the currency.  Hence, even though I never read 'Focus', I have read that particular article and I understand the vehemence.  I've also read reports that the Euro will have parity with the American dollar by the end of the year or close thereafter.  Personally, I think this is just the beginning of the troubles for the European Union.  The idea of a single currency among nations has never been tried before and too many things are taken on faith for it to be successful.
 
Re: European Union

Focusing on Greece, I repeat: The EU will help the Greek, but a country who is breaking the rules so severely has to take responsibility as well. If not, we can get rid of all the rules.

why not get rid of the country instead? Punish it by kicking it out of the EU? or Suspending privileges...
 
Re: European Union

Yeah, why not let's make this discussion as black and white as possible.

Choose guys.

A. Either the EU will completely bail Greece out (the Greek won't have to pay a dime) and things will start all over again. EU rules are not important anyway.

B. Let's get rid of the country instead.
 
Re: European Union

Forostar said:
Yeah, why not let's make this discussion as black and white as possible.

Choose guys.

A. Either the EU will completely bail Greece out (the Greek won't have to pay a dime) and things will start all over again. EU rules are not important anyway.

B. Let's get rid of the country instead.

It is black and white.  Stealing and lying about it is black.  "EU rules are not important anyway"?  Let's see how long that will last and what will become of the EU when this is taken as a guide to action.  You say some of the dumbest things on this forum.
EDIT:  I thought about what I said and I won't change it.  Seriously, you need to start using logic in your comments and cease using gushing, oozing emotionalism.
 
Re: European Union

LooseCannon said:
Biased outrage news?

Yes. I mean, seriously, the cover says: "Frauds in the Euro-family Does Greece betray us for our money- and what about Spain, Portugal and Italy?". Implying that Spain, Portugal and Italy will be the next ones to betray "us" for "our" money. I fucking hate Germany. Okay, I know, let's not be over-simplifying. I hate German private media.
 
Re: European Union

Perun said:
Yes. I mean, seriously, the cover says: "Frauds in the Euro-family Does Greece betray us for our money- and what about Spain, Portugal and Italy?". Implying that Spain, Portugal and Italy will be the next ones to betray "us" for "our" money. I fucking hate Germany. Okay, I know, let's not be over-simplifying. I hate German private media.

The fact is, southern Europe is experiencing problems because of big govenment.  Does anyone on this forum understand basic economics?  Why are you blaming German private media for calling spade a spade?
 
Re: European Union

I'm not blaming German media for calling a spade a spade. I'm blaming them for agitating against a whole people. The tone of the whole thing is, "they are cheating us", "we are the innocent victims of their fraud". After two world wars, "we" should be beyond that.
 
Re: European Union

Perun said:
I'm not blaming German media for calling a spade a spade. I'm blaming them for agitating against a whole people. The tone of the whole thing is, "they are cheating us", "we are the innocent victims of their fraud". After two world wars, "we" should be beyond that.

My suspicions were that you were feeling that "German guilt" for sins of the fathers.  Don't.  It is not your fault that your country has a disgusting history and neither is it the fault of any other German who has no direct connection to that period in history.  The modern EU is an entirely different issue. 

I believe EU will bail out Greece, but the lessons will not be learned. 
It is rare to find an article that sums it up.  But here it is.  A recommended read for all, especially Europeans.
 
Re: European Union

Genghis Khan said:
My suspicions were that you were feeling that "German guilt" for sins of the fathers.  Don't.  It is not your fault that your country has a disgusting history and neither is it the fault of any other German who has no direct connection to that period in history.  The modern EU is an entirely different issue. 

No, that's not it. It's seriously the primitive way the German media present things. I'm disgusted by that.

We can talk about my feelings towards the Third Reich if you like, I'm always ready to do so... but it doesn't have much to do with this.
 
Re: European Union

Genghis Khan said:
It is black and white.  Stealing and lying about it is black.  "EU rules are not important anyway"?  Let's see how long that will last and what will become of the EU when this is taken as a guide to action.  You say some of the dumbest things on this forum.
EDIT:  I thought about what I said and I won't change it.  Seriously, you need to start using logic in your comments and cease using gushing, oozing emotionalism.

Emotionalism? Look who's talking. I don't need to take this shit.

I can't take people serious who:

-act black and white
-are pessimist
-lack knowledge on the subject
-act aggressive and personal

In the past you were not like this, but in the last couple of years you have become the ultimate combination.
Take your advice with you where the sun don't shine. I am not going to bow to intolerance.

Speaking of advice, why not put me on your ignore list, if you can't stand me?
I am afraid I have do that with you now.

*Puts Genghis Khan on ignore list*
 
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