The Official Book of Souls Tour 2016 Thread (Warning: Spoilers within!)

One thing that has kept me from loving TRATB is the lack of dynamics. Almost every other epic song in the Maiden catalogue has a really cool quiet part that fits into the story and lyrics of the song (ROTAM, SSOASS, WTWWB, SOTC...). The instrumental part in this song has no relation to the lyrics. Also the only things that can label TRATB as a prog song are one change in tempo and lenght. I don't like the album version, but live the song is quite good.
 
I don't consider it progressive at all. As covered here/in the Song and Album Commentary threads already, Red and the Black seems to be something of a mismatch of various Maidenesque hooks, as if Steve set out to write the ultimate Maiden song based on what has worked in other songs. It's neither a cohesive epic that develops and grows as it moves along, nor a carefully crafted abstract and experimental piece. That's why I consider it bordering on chaotic.
 
To me, I have always thought that progressive rock is music that 'progressively' changes throughout the course of the song, sometimes returning to a theme previously used, but not always.
 
For me Cygnus-X1 Book I: The Voyage by Rush is the definition of a circa 10 minute prog rock (not metal) song. TRATB has little in common with it.
 
Cygnus -XI is the definition of Arse kicking!! :notworthy::applause::dancinggeek::cheers::nana: And yes is quite progressive as well. The knock I have with red and the black is the parallel lyric/riff verses'.

Kind of takes a little time to get used to. Other than that, one could apply the praising, cheering, clapping guys and the dancing banana. it freaking rocks hard....
 
Also not proggy. As a whole, TBOS is much less proggy than the last two albums. Surprising, considering the length of the songs.
 
Brigantium said:
I don't consider it progressive at all. As covered here/in the Song and Album Commentary threads already, Red and the Black seems to be something of a mismatch of various Maidenesque hooks, as if Steve set out to write the ultimate Maiden song based on what has worked in other songs. It's neither a cohesive epic that develops and grows as it moves along, nor a carefully crafted abstract and experimental piece. That's why I consider it bordering on chaotic.
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Have to agree, it worked better live, but it really seems like a paint by numbers long Maiden song ... it is not bad by any stretch, it is just not "epic" like so many of their other longer tuned. It just does not flow as well as it could, the transitions are a bit clumsy as well.
 
We might disagree but here my two cents:

I'd still call Empire proggy. More so than songs like Starblind and When the Wild Wind Blows.
There's a number of changes in tempo, meter and atmosphere. Let's compare the last two albums:

On TFF the more proggier could be seen as:

Isle of Avalon
The Man Who Would Be King

The Talisman has a proggy intro, but relatively seen it's not a firm part of the song. Yes there are some slow intros and passages in the following songs but in total, The Talisman, Starblind and WTWWB have not enough changes in tempo, and probably also atmosphere. All in all they are pretty constant songs.

On BOS:

The Great Unknown
The Book of Souls
The Man of Sorrows
Empire of the Clouds
 
Proggy is hard to define, really, but I would say atmosphere has a lot to do with it and as such I would see Avalon and Starblind as 2 of the proggyest moments they have done, along with The Legacy. Empire has the changes and whatnot but it doesnt scream 'prog' to me. Starblind does, due to the sound and atmosphere.
 
EOTC only in that it's adopting characteristics from other musical genres....there's a hint of theatre or old-style cinema about it, and dramatic newsreel-style music. It's more in the vein of epic, with the grandiose storytelling, than proggy.
 
Since maybe there are some MaidenFans forum members that are still staying away from the spoilers because of next year's possible 4th chapter, I'll do that here instead of the commentary sub - forum. I'm going to grade songs that were performed from 1 to 10 and compare that to my ratings of the studio versions.

Song:---------------------------------Studio version: -----------------------------Live Version:
If Eternity Should Fail------------------ 9 ------------------------------------------- 9,5

Speed Of Light---------------------------- 8 ------------------------------------------ 9

The Red And The Black----------------- 6 ------------------------------------------ 8

The Book Of Souls----------------------- 10 ----------------------------------------- 10

Death Or Glory---------------------------- 8 ------------------------------------------ 9

Tears Of A Clown------------------------- 8 ------------------------------------------- 9

Disclaimer: The only reason why IESF doesn't get a 10 live is because of the outro. If that outro wasn't followed by bombastic beginning of SOL, it could really drag the concert energy down.
 
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Niall Kielt said:
Proggy is hard to define, really, but I would say atmosphere has a lot to do with it and as such I would see Avalon and Starblind as 2 of the proggyest moments they have done, along with The Legacy. Empire has the changes and whatnot but it doesnt scream 'prog' to me. Starblind does, due to the sound and atmosphere.
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Brigantium said:
EOTC only in that it's adopting characteristics from other musical genres....there's a hint of theatre or old-style cinema about it, and dramatic newsreel-style music. It's more in the vein of epic, with the grandiose storytelling, than proggy.
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This. I like the song much more than I used to and I agree it has some proggy inclinations, but it always sounded to me like an overblown folk song. Agree with Niall that both Avalon, Starblind and The Legacy sound much more that way to me.
 
matic22 said:
Disclaimer: The only reason why IESF doesn't get a 10 live is because of the outro. If that outro wasn't followed by bombastic beginning of SOL, it could really drag the concert energy down
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This outro however allows the band to change guitars (IESF is in Eb tuning). I tend to think this was anticipated since the recording of the album, which is why the outro was kept on the album in the first place.
 
If Eternity Should Fail
STUDIO: 8/ LIVE: 10

Speed of Light
STUDIO: 7/ LIVE: 8

Tears of a Clown
STUDIO: 9/ LIVE: 10

The Red and the Black
STUDIO:8/ LIVE: 9,5

The Book of Souls
STUDIO:8/ LIVE: 10

Death or Glory
STUDIO: 5,5/ LIVE: 7,5
 
Black Bart said:
This outro however allows the band to change guitars (IESF is in Eb tuning). I tend to think this was anticipated since the recording of the album, which is why the outro was kept on the album in the first place.
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IESF is in drop D. Only Janick and Adrian are tuned to that. If we go to decimals, I'll change IESF to 9,5.
 
Wait, I've actually wondered about that for a bit. I know that the whole band is (apparently) in Drop D in the album version of IESF, and that Dave is tuned to E standard live, but where does that leave Steve? Is he in E standard in live performances too? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised frankly, but I'd still like to know for sure.
 
Ruflux said:
Wait, I've actually wondered about that for a bit. I know that the whole band is (apparently) in Drop D in the album version of IESF, and that Dave is tuned to E standard live, but where does that leave Steve? Is he in E standard in live performances too? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised frankly, but I'd still like to know for sure.
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It sounds to me like drop-D bass on studio version. Live it sounds like standard.
 
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