Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
I must admit that I am surprised by just how weak the morale and organization of the Afghan government forces is. It's as if the Taliban wins without fighting.
That's the art of war!
You're making a joke, but you're right. The Taliban won by waiting in the mountains for nature to take its course.
When it comes to the Afghan army, it never really existed. Multiple layers of corruption, both in Afghanistan and the US suppliers, siphoned off billions of dollars, creating a shadow force with no loyalty, that barely got paid.
The only hope for change now is that some people liked some of what they saw under non-Taliban rule, and they eventually figure it out. But that's unlikely, because the Taliban is likely to put a whole bunch of people to death.
D
Deleted member 7164
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Sharia in Afghanistan 2022 - Sponsored by FIFA(TM)
Assuredly that's true of some people. I feel for the women of Kabul, tens of thousands of whom were working educated jobs, going to school, etc. I bet they prefer life under the Americans to the Taliban.
gazda
Ancient Mariner
Yes, but these womens are minority and nobody cares about them. So Afghan is country of 40 mil.population, with profesional army, trained for last 20 yrs from Americans, they have very advanced wepons and air support from America.
On the other side you have Talibans armed with AK-47 and these guys for 7 days took whole country.
If somebody wants Western type of living they will not find that in Afghan. Sad but true.
This new rule is not set up by force and mass killings.
On the other side you have Talibans armed with AK-47 and these guys for 7 days took whole country.
If somebody wants Western type of living they will not find that in Afghan. Sad but true.
This new rule is not set up by force and mass killings.
The concept that the Afghan army is a cohesive force is laughable. There is no comparison between them and the Taliban forces; the Afghan army is a ghost that was created on paper, with the money sent to build the forces being stolen at multiple levels to the point that the average Afghan trooper didn't get paid for months - and in fact, were simply bribed by the Taliban to switch sides.
There is no Afghan army. Whereas the Taliban retains their core force of suicidal fighters, who understand terrain and concepts. And, in fact, where do you think the weapons that were sent to Afghanistan went? They absolutely have the same access to US weapons - because the Afghans stole those weapons for or sold them to the Taliban. We're back to warlords vs Taliban.
There is no Afghan army. Whereas the Taliban retains their core force of suicidal fighters, who understand terrain and concepts. And, in fact, where do you think the weapons that were sent to Afghanistan went? They absolutely have the same access to US weapons - because the Afghans stole those weapons for or sold them to the Taliban. We're back to warlords vs Taliban.
I'm sure they care about them.
Yes, it is - and will be. The Taliban is not a popular government. There's just a lot of people who don't see a difference between them and others.
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Deleted member 7164
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Let's get several facts straight here. Afghanistan is not a nation state. That's the #1 error in the western approach to the country.
The women of Kabul and the rural patriarchs are two different universes. This is not like in Europe or Americas where you have countries that have rural zones less developed than urban, so with a big influx of rurals some societal balances can change in big cities. Nope, not even near.
Taliban have 150.000 troops combined at this moment.
Operation Storm '95 where Croatia liberated its territories and restored border integrity, 150k troops in action, air support, naval support, U.S/NATO logistical support / NATO airspace patrols over the adjacent airspaces. Took 3 days to push 600km of border inland and regain 10.000 km2 of land, because we left escape corridors so the rebels don't need to fight to death.
4 million people stood up for their rights, out of those 250k took up arms and it was enough.
If Afganistan can't do this out of their 32 million people then fuck it.
32 million population, 150k "terrorist army". My ass.
They welcome it, LooseCannon I'm afraid that the ratio of "women of Kabul" to these fucks is about 1 to 100.
I'm sorry we even gave them the glimpse of hope
The women of Kabul and the rural patriarchs are two different universes. This is not like in Europe or Americas where you have countries that have rural zones less developed than urban, so with a big influx of rurals some societal balances can change in big cities. Nope, not even near.
Taliban have 150.000 troops combined at this moment.
Operation Storm '95 where Croatia liberated its territories and restored border integrity, 150k troops in action, air support, naval support, U.S/NATO logistical support / NATO airspace patrols over the adjacent airspaces. Took 3 days to push 600km of border inland and regain 10.000 km2 of land, because we left escape corridors so the rebels don't need to fight to death.
4 million people stood up for their rights, out of those 250k took up arms and it was enough.
If Afganistan can't do this out of their 32 million people then fuck it.
32 million population, 150k "terrorist army". My ass.
They welcome it, LooseCannon I'm afraid that the ratio of "women of Kabul" to these fucks is about 1 to 100.
I'm sorry we even gave them the glimpse of hope
There are absolutely a lot of people who are pro-Taliban in Afghanistan, but I think the rest of them don't really care. they just want to not get shot on their daily life and however that happens they don't care.
gazda
Ancient Mariner
Not popular? Why 40 mil.people did not fight back against 80 000 Talibans?
They welcomed them in each city. Afghan people wants them and that is only truth. If someone from Kabul tweets against Talibans it doesnt mean that Afghan are not supporting the new rule
The army was underfunded, ill-equipped, there was no training to speak of and all the external funding it got went into the pockets of some individual officers. People didn't fight the Taliban because they didn't want to fucking die. There are Afghans who support the Taliban, it's true, and those ran out to line the streets and give the impression that everyone is welcoming them. But that is no statement about how many people actually support them. It's called propaganda, and you are basically falling for it.
The reason why the Taliban are successful is because we wasted the 20 years we had for nation-building by acting completely inept and not understanding that a strong democracy doesn't just come from installing military bases and giving money to whoever asks for it. The Taliban are now the only faction in Afghanistan who have any sort of organised structures, and that's that.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
While I agree with everything you said, the army's incapacity is not due to bad arms plan or training, they simply didn't have enough good military men there that are willing to fight for "the nation state of Afghanistan". Then again it's tied to our failure of making the "nation state".
You might see it as a failure I see it as a half arsed operation from the beginning. I don't believe any strategist had ideas about Afghanistan as nation state of the "Afganis" being anything else than total failure. But we went there, millions of $ and arms went there, for some reasons.
In the end the Taliban are just a conglomerate of tribal fighters that don't want any central governance from Kabul. They want a rule where religious authority is the chief of village and if he says stone the woman you stone her. They don't even like other tribes, but they're willing to fight alongside because they see a joint enemy in democracy coming from a central authority in a nation state.
Ascendingthethrone
Ancient Mariner
It is exactly what happened when Daesh took oven large sections over of Iraq. Tribal loyalty is more important than national unity.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I'm doing you all a favour and watching Russia Today to grab general stance from their propaganda.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
They're, of course, shitting on NATO/US approach and low-key mocking what has been done in last 20 years. Also they're pulling this to "US Democrat party bad" rhetoric. They're featuring western women who are saying things like "ok so the Kabul women have progressed but anyway rural women didn't and peace is important anyway for women and Taliban have stated they're not the old Taliban" and shit like that. So Russia won't be doing anything as long as NATO/US is being damaged, they are not evacuating, they are not participating in any future peace keeping forces, they say Taliban are "filling the power vacuum towards peaceful transition of power". However they did strongly word if Taliban tries to flood over borders Russia will "protect its allies".
In any case nothing constructive which was expected.
In any case nothing constructive which was expected.
gazda
Ancient Mariner
That is not true, you have 300 000 soliders, trained and equipped by Ameiricans for last 20 yrs.
Biden had said. "Our military mission in Afghanistan will conclude on August 31st."
Here's the exchange from a bit over a month ago:
REPORTER: Is a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan now inevitable?
THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not.
REPORTER: Why?
THE PRESIDENT: Because you — the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable.
That is a war, in war people are getting killed. If they really dont want that kind of rule for sure there will be some ressistance. In every conflit you have that scenarion, only here guys with AK-47 and sandals took over whole country for 7 days.
For sure there are people who dont support Talibans, mostly in Kabul becauses it is modern and open minded city. But what some womens are tweets about it doesnt mean that is a opinion of Afghans overall, otherwise there will not be celebration of new rule like this now.
This is true, some nations will never accept democracy and Wester way of living. And this is not a point of education or who is president they just dont want to live like that.
I am working with a lot of people from Middle East and SE Asia, they are educated people, finished college in Europe or US, but they dont want that kind of life.
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D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
What kind of life do they not want?
gazda
Ancient Mariner
I am talking about my exeperince working with people from and talking about that with them.
They just dont like that womens are working so much, ok in some countries they are working but office jobs. They think that is not normal that women is CEO or doing some big job, because for them they should raising childern and man is bringing money to family.
For them Europe and US are too much open minded. When I said that my fiancee is going on holiday without me because I am on vessel they think that is not normal. She should stay at home and wait for me.
One Indian guy was in shock when I told him that me and my fiancee are sleeping in same bed and we are not married.
In India mostly marriages are set up by parents. One guy wanted to married one girl but her parents forbidden that because parents of that guy are not so wealth.
And we are talking about guys who are educated and they spend some time in US and Europe, these are not some caveman.