World War I & II topic

@LooseCannon and other interested: read on and check these two things.

1.
www.vliegenoverpolderlijnen.nl

Vliegen over polderlijnen

Tijdens de oorlog was het donker. De lichten in de steden werden gedoofd om ongezien te blijven voor de nachtelijke luchtoorlog. In die donkerste nachten vlogen vliegers terug naar huis.
www.vliegenoverpolderlijnen.nl
Select play video, English, for an animation and explanation.


A WWII bomber plane is going to be taken from the depths of the Markermeer. It is believed that the entire crew is still in it.

2.
This Canadian woman had to wait 77 years, but now 93-year-old Edith McLeod hopes to get a quick answer about the fate of her missing brother.
In the Second World War, Canadian Harry Farrington flew as a navigator on a British bomber. And this plane is probably the one.
 
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In the Netherlands, a relatively big portion of the Jews were deported during World World II.

At the same time, I wonder if some of you had heard (learnt) about this:

The February Strike (Dutch: Februaristaking) was a general strike in the German-occupied Netherlands in 1941, during World War II, organized by the then-outlawed Communist Party of the Netherlands in defence of persecuted Dutch Jews and against the anti-Jewish measures and activities of the Nazis in general.

The direct causes were a series of arrests and pogroms held by the Germans in the Jewish neighbourhood of Amsterdam, the Jodenbuurt. It started on 25 February 1941 and lasted for two days; on 26 February, 300,000 people joined the strike. The strike was harshly suppressed by the Germans after three days.

The 1941 February Strike is considered to be the first public protest against the Nazis in occupied Europe, and the only mass protest against the deportation of Jews to be organized by non-Jews.



Arrest of Dutch Jews by the Nazis, February 1941 (Jonas Daniël Meijerplein):
1613815078108.png
German soldiers at the Jonas Daniël Meijerplein during the raids:
1613815091745.png

Leaflet announcing the strike:

1613814541447.png


The strike is still remembered each year on February the 25th, with a march past the De Dokwerker the statue memorial, on the Jonas Daniël Meijerplein in Amsterdam:
1613814860293.png


It was a big deed, and hard to understand that it did not happen elsewhere. More here:
en.wikipedia.org

February strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Forostar said:
and hard to understand that it did not happen elsewhere
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According to the Wiki article you posted, this strike seems to have taken the Germans by surprise, so it's likely they were prepared for crackdowns from then on. Also, the Wiki article you posted mentions other strikes in Nazi-occupied countries. Not to protest the extradition of Jews, but still strikes. There were also other forms of protest against the treatment of Jews, including the refusal of the Bulgarian government to extradite its country's Jews to Germany.
I don't want to diminish the significance of the strike, don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to help you understand why this particular combination of strike and pro-Jewish protest happened only this one time.
 
Forostar said:
It was a big deed, and hard to understand that it did not happen elsewhere. More here:
en.wikipedia.org

February strike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

Seeing that you mention that Communists were outlawed in the Netherlands, they were not just outlawed in imperial Yugoslavia and before in AH, they were criminalized so saying "I'm a communist" could throw you 20 years in prison. They were also the #1 political party just prior to WW2, in 1939 when Croatia got more autonomy under former Yugoslav crown. They had a shit ton of people on their side willing to fight anyone. And then Germans invade, Communists make Partisans but put emphasis on liberation and not politics and now they have even more people in their ranks.

So, would you organize a "strike", or a strike?

I know people are knowledgeable here but just for the sake of clarity, Partisans weren't underground, they were a standing force, and in 1943 they became a standing army.

From this perspective your sentence is rather weird, the context is off. Imagine saying it's hard to understand why workers didn't protest the treatment of Jews in Kiev in 1941.
 
It's good to have some discussion so that's alright. It still was the only mass protest against the deportation of Jews to be organized by non-Jews.
Perun said:
so it's likely they were prepared for crackdowns from then on.
Click to expand...
Who is they in this sentence?

A podcast about this strike is about to start, and I'm sure they'll go into that question (why the only one in Europe) as well.

Zare, I don't think I understand what you mean. I did not tell the whole story (you can surely read more about it), but still it is a bit of a mystery to many people, at least here, why it did not happen elsewhere.
 
Zare said:
it's hard to understand why workers didn't protest the treatment of Jews in Kiev in 1941.
Click to expand...
It still is hard to understand. People in/around Amsterdam felt they had to show they did not agree with deportations. Surely others must have.
 
I really have a hard time understanding your lack of understandment here.
If there were 300k people gathered in Kiev they would've fought the Nazis on the spot.

Nazis did not treat Dutch people as they treated Slavs, Balkan peoples or anyone lower on their list.

Initially they thought you will be obedient and as they have nothing "conceptually" against Dutch as a nation this allowed some lenience on their side, making the demonstration happen.

There is occupation where you go to eat, go to work and can actually gather with your patriots. There is occupation where you get a bullet in the head if you stick it out.
 
Forostar said:
Surely others must have.
Click to expand...

They did, it's in that article. In Benelux states.
When I google hitler on the dutch, I get this from google directly

" Hitler thought very highly of the Dutch people, who were considered to be fellow members of the Aryan 'master race' "

So yeah, if someone doesn't think you're a rat, you might partially retain the normal civil life until you show disobedience.
 
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No, that's nowhere near what I'm saying.

It is maybe better said like this : in period of 1940 to 1941 there were many more civilians in occupied Netherlands than there were in post 1941 Nazi occupations. In 1940 Hitler tried to soft power the Dutch (* in comparison to his other foreign policy) in 1941 they tried to annihilate the Russians. There is no civilian life in occupied Russia.

Victim is a victim but let's face it, Jews were #1, they were ought to be mechanically removed from the human genome, Slavs were #2, they were to be killed or driven off from their lands for sake of exploitation. I mean as far as I know Hitler never planned drowning the Dutch and resettling your land.
 
Forostar said:
We were all victims and the Dutch were not so much.
Click to expand...

Every victim is same but they're not all in a same place. There is a list of relative population loss for every country.

P.S. I did not bold that hitler and dutch words, that came out of copy paste and i'll manually remove it now because it looks very off
 
Forostar said:
Who is they in this sentence?
Click to expand...

The Germans. As in, the Germans were prepared to crack down future protests.

Again, I really don't mean to diminish the importance and meaning of the strike, I absolutely say they were heroes and deserve more recognition than they get. I was really only responding to your statement about why it didn't happen elsewhere and offering some food for thought.
 
I think there's a lot of relevance in when this happened in the war, too. We know that Denmark, for example, was lightly occupied (originally, surely due to the shared "Aryan" heritage that was so important to Hitler), and that the Danish underground worked incredibly hard to save their Jews in 1943 when anti-Jewish laws finally came to Denmark en masse. But the Netherlands were attempted to be ruled similar to how Denmark was, until the heroic Dutch Resistance proved that the Netherlands needed to be held down, which of course, led to the conditions of late 1944 and the first half of 1945. They had more freedom to protest, freedom that was slowly taken away.

I mean, with the conditions in, say, Krakow, it's not like the Poles had the ability to protest in the same way. Similarly, France was held down aggressively, either by direct military governance or by a very pro-Nazi collaborator government. I dunno. The Dutch were heroes, but they were the only ones with the space to be heroes in this way.
 
Serbia and Croatia were Nazi client states from the start.

How can one expect a strike for Jews, in such conditions, amidst genocides among own ethnic groups.

Too much hate on their own hands to care for number 1 Zare.
 
Foro, please mate, take a deep breath and read again carefully what Zare said.
 
Foro, Foro, easy.

Go easy.

What did Zare say? Where do Serbia and Croatia come into this? When did he mention those countries?

Read again. Carefully. What Zare posted. Don't take his posts as an attack. Don't assume that they are against anything you said. Just read what he wrote and try to see what he is saying.
 
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