Why did Steve Harris fire Clive Burr ?

[GhostofCain]

So why the falling out with the press around the TXF era?

It might have had something to do with the (lack of) quality of the material.

Joking aside, there was a new wave of journalists who did not enjoy the perks from Maiden’s heyday and probably had different tastes to the old guard. That being said, the latter were not impressed either:

The day I heard The X Factor

Malcolm Dome remembers being cooped in a room with the new album by Iron Maiden

www.loudersound.com

Mick Wall once said that Maiden were a band who had released many albums that were not that great but had not got enough bad reviews…

 

[The_7th_one]

there was a new wave of journalists who did not enjoy the perks from Maiden’s heyday and probably had different tastes to the old guard.

Absolutely True.
Even in 1993 Kerrang Mag didn't bet for them and Heavy Metal bands. I remember buying those imported magazines from Uk and the classic heavy metal or trash metal bands weren't there. They were like they belonged to other planet or something like that. All that the magazine showed were weird little bands imitating the attitude of grunge or the brit-pop rock music. Hard Rock and Metal was not there.

It's true the X factor didn't reach the level all people were expecting.

 

[Ruflux]

I think it also probably reflects on their waning importance in the rock scene. Maiden just weren't interesting anymore in the eyes of the press. That plus the rise of increasingly sensational "journalism" practices and the general change in attitude in the 90s. Being friends with who you're supposed to be reporting on kind of seemed to diminish over time, probably in part due to sensationalism becoming the norm.

 

[The_7th_one]

Mick Wall once said that Maiden were a band who had released many albums that were not that great but had not got enough bad reviews…

Maybe it was his own fault . Mick Wall was there with the band laughing their jokes every time. even in the most ridiculous interviews in his tv program. I remember one with Bruce…really pathetic. He looked like one of their crew staff.

 

[GhostofCain]

Maybe it was his own fault . Mick Wall was there with the band laughing their jokes every time. even in the most ridiculous interviews in his tv program. I remember one with Bruce…really pathetic. He looked like one of their crew staff.

He was on the payroll. The official Iron Maiden biography he wrote is essentially a hagiography.

 

[____no5]

I think it also probably reflects on their waning importance in the rock scene. Maiden just weren't interesting anymore in the eyes of the press.

Two reasons why I believe classic heavy metal looked old in 90s and got discarded:

1. Non relevant lyrics. History, books and dungeons & dragons started to look ridiculous in comparison with what Metallica, Megadeth & Pantera were writing. Still are if you ask me. Iron Maiden Commentary did a good job restoring Maiden’s status lyrics -wise.

2. Lack of heavy riffs. Once you hear what Pantera was playing or the immense job Bob Rock did on Black Album you cannot unhear it. Once again guitar harmonies looked last century.

Steve was quick to see both coming and tried to adopt, first with No Prayer, second with The X Factor (i.e., Fortunes of War) but songs were weak and uninspired. Players couldn’t adopt their playing, Nicko took another 13 years to play double bass, Dave & Janick didn’t change their playing much.

 

[Ruflux]

The thing with Maiden too is that even when they get heavy, riffy or fast (The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg, Montségur, Be Quick or Be Dead, etc.), their own production betrays them and these immensely heavy riffs that would blow your nutsack off with good production end up sounding kinda limp.

This is something Steve simply doesn't understand, he just sees everything as an Iron Maiden tune that requires a nebulous Iron Maiden sound (which basically is whatever his preferences are at the time of recording + hearing loss from not using hearing protection on stage) which most often than not robs even genuinely massive riffs of their impact by making them sound far weaker in comparison to much less well-crafted riffs produced by competing bands with great production and especially powerful-sounding guitars.

 

[Luisma]

Yes, Rod had a reputation of treating the press so well that they would not dare print anything negative so they would not lose all the perks that came with being part of Maiden’s inner circle.

Exactly. Something that "in the end" I think kind of hurted Maiden (because they couldn't really know that the press thought about their music) and some of the press (because they were percevied as brown nosers).

Sure, magazines such as Kerrang and Sounds still printed negative letters sent to them and they did (especially Sounds) criticise and negativately reviewed some singles and songs but all in all, they would always say nice things about the band.

Now, different to what most people think, it wasn't in 95 when the press started saying nasty things about Maiden, it was in 1990, got a bit uglier by 92-93 and it got really nasty in 95. Why? People ask, well, because different people, with different opinions come in to write to certain magazine/press and as they don't have a history with the band they write what they really think about them. There's also a matter of musical taste, and the trends of time

 

[____no5]

I think with Somewhere in Time cracks started to show, some bad irrelevant lyrics, such as Long Distance Runner & Alexander, softer orchestrations, synths.
Seventh Son seems huge in retrospect yet back in the day it wasn’t perceived as Masterpiece. Especially when people had Operation Mindcrime to compare, where the storyline was crystal clear.

Also the shift from UK to US started to happen. By 1990, Maiden looked like 80 years old.
Guns N’Roses lasted a little longer but eventually everything classic metal, glam, anything reminding the 80s got buried.

At the time I thought it was normal but it wasn’t. The world was changing: Berlin’s wall was teared down, Soviet world collapsed and people turned their back to 80s overnight. And it never happened a shift in taste /trend as abruptly as this ever since.

 

[Iron Lurker]

It might have had something to do with the (lack of) quality of the material.

Joking aside, there was a new wave of journalists who did not enjoy the perks from Maiden’s heyday and probably had different tastes to the old guard. That being said, the latter were not impressed either:

The day I heard The X Factor

Malcolm Dome remembers being cooped in a room with the new album by Iron Maiden

www.loudersound.com

Mick Wall once said that Maiden were a band who had released many albums that were not that great but had not got enough bad reviews…

That's kind of me when I first listened to X Factor, "stunned silence"

I've since learned to like a fair bit of it but I only listen to 2 songs off VXI

 

[Iron Lurker]

While I love all the reunion albums the production is lacking, with the exception of BNW (where it seems Shirley had more influence then.) But it is what it is as Steve is too set in his ways. Hopefully there will be at at least one more album. Wish Steve would take a back seat and just concentrate on songwriting.

 

[The_7th_one]

Yeah I remember when I listened the single Man on the Edge on the radio (metal channel), I didn't like it, not just for Blaze. In fact I still hate the intro of that song.

 

[Kalata]

Because of the other thread, I searched for some interviews with Clive and found this (from Kerrang 1983):



He said: ''Do you want to be rich and famous doing something that you don't enjoy or do you want to have another crack in a situation where you're really happy? Obviously, the Maiden situation wasn't as cut and dried as that, but I really am much happier in this position. I've got loads of ideas that I'm bringing out in this group and the other guys are really helping them to reach fruition. Part of the reason why I left Maiden was because I couldn't use my songwriting within the context of the band. I felt that the split was amicable, though a lot of things that have been said about me since I left are totally untrue. I don't feel malice about that but I really don't understand it. Maybe they felt like they needed some kind of reason to justify three members leaving in 18 months, though that's only a hypothesis. All I can say is that I'm really glad to be out of all that''.

So he wanted to leave and he wanted to write more. This is a surprise, although he co-wrote 2 songs for TNOTB. He mentioned a different songwriting approach, but in the same article he said he likes Praying Mantis-like (he played live with them later), heavy and melodic stuff - so like early days Maiden. Maiden/Steve wanted more complex stuff.

Did Clive write anything for his Escape/Stratus band? Or record a whole album with the former? He should have joined or formed a steady band. A famous one, right. Like Paul, btw.

 

[lira]

Because of the other thread, I searched for some interviews with Clive and found this (from Kerrang 1983):

View attachment 40853

He said: ''Do you want to be rich and famous doing something that you don't enjoy or do you want to have another crack in a situation where you're really happy? Obviously, the Maiden situation wasn't as cut and dried as that, but I really am much happier in this position. I've got loads of ideas that I'm bringing out in this group and the other guys are really helping them to reach fruition. Part of the reason why I left Maiden was because I couldn't use my songwriting within the context of the band. I felt that the split was amicable, though a lot of things that have been said about me since I left are totally untrue. I don't feel malice about that but I really don't understand it. Maybe they felt like they needed some kind of reason to justify three members leaving in 18 months, though that's only a hypothesis. All I can say is that I'm really glad to be out of all that''.

So he wanted to leave and he wanted to write more. This is a surprise, although he co-wrote 2 songs for TNOTB. He mentioned a different songwriting approach, but in the same article he said he likes Praying Mantis-like (he played live with them later), heavy and melodic stuff - so like early days Maiden. Maiden/Steve wanted more complex stuff.

Did Clive write anything for his Escape/Stratus band? Or record a whole album with the former? He should have joined or formed a steady band. A famous one, right. Like Paul, btw.

Partly true, as far as I can see. According to later interviews, not only he was sacked but would certainly have continued with Maiden. If he was still optimistic at this stage of the interview, he soon wouldn't. Two completely different realities. While Maiden had already embarked on world tours, the most Escape could do outside of England would be gigs in Japan financed by CBS/Sony (the LP contract). In fact, Escape/Stratus did nothing to recover the popularity Praying Mantis had in the early 80s.

As for the writing, I believe Burr was as frustrated as Paul Di'Anno must have been. In this statement he says an important word: ‘context’. This goes into the lyrical part, and (I'm not saying Burr did it) you can't write love songs in a band like that, for example.

I don't think Burr wrote anything during the Escape phase, because the songs they recorded as demos were remnants of Praying Mantis. On Stratus, with the new LP, all the songs are signed as ‘Stratus’, so it's hard to tell!