USA Politics

Yax said:
10% my ass. Try around 20% this last election, but the Moderates and the Christian Conservatives have a slice of that voter category as well.
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that conversation was 2-3 years ago, maybe a bit more. But of course you know better being Swedish and all. It's a shame though, Scandinavian countries used to be model countries for a lot of people. Maybe we had just idealized them, don't know.
 
Aggelos said:
that conversation was 2-3 years ago, maybe a bit more. But of course you know better being Swedish and all. It's a shame though, Scandinavian countries used to be model countries for a lot of people. Maybe we had just idealized them, don't know.
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Things were definitely better in some ways a few decades back, less good in other ways. But the way I see it, MAGA and Trump have paved the way for dedemocratication. This current government are playing a few hands out of the Trump playbook. Good old USA has showed its western companions that you'll do fine; you don't have to stand on law and norms.
 
Azas said:
I agree with the notion that the far right is on the rise in both the U.S. and Europe. And I don’t believe this is happening solely because of some covert pro-russian propaganda—though that definitely plays a role. I think certain aspects of preceding policies simply weren’t very wise or sustainable. For example: uncontrolled immigration.

I also agree that, for now, the far left poses a smaller threat. But I firmly believe that if those ideologues ever came to power, they’d cause just as much damage as the far right. While the far-right archetype tends to resemble barroom thugs, the far left often comes in the form of educated professors—and they’d bring in communism in a heartbeat if given the chance.

I absolutely agree that the U.S. healthcare system is bad—frankly, even frightening. I definitely prefer the European model, and I can’t understand why, after all these years, the U.S. still hasn’t managed to create something more similar. I suppose it comes down to the fact that the U.S. is a more extreme version of capitalism.

I’ve always viewed Sweden as a very socially oriented country—maybe that’s an outdated perspective, but I still find it appealing. In fact, the entire Nordic region—Denmark, the Netherlands, and so on—strikes me as quite attractive in terms of societal models.

One more thing: so far, there’s no better alternative to Western democracy—especially its European version. None. Unless, of course, you’d rather live in places like russia, China, or Cuba. And so far, South American countries haven’t exactly carved out some inspiring new path either—there are too many problems there.

The West must hold on to what it has. And yes, improve it. But veering into extremes—whether far right or far left—would be a grave mistake.
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I think it’s possible to take the best of the Western democratic ideals and balance it with a socialist economic system.

Even the U.S. constitutional framework, including things like the Interstate Commerce Clause, permit flexibility in the U.S. economic system.

I can’t help but think Canada has a great system, I hear New Zealand’s is admirable.

I used to think the Scandinavian nations had great systems but am apparently behind the times.

I make these comparisons not to say the U.S. Constitutional government isn’t a great idea. It’s a wonderful framework and tool with flexibility, checks and balances, and layers of state and federal government baked in. I’m no jingoist or “America, fuck yeah!” type but I recognize its merits.

But, I think humanity is ready to stop fucking around and start more logically looking toward its long term sustainability and general happiness.

Why does it have to be “you get rapacious capitalism, authoritarian communism, or fascism as your choices”? That’s so 20th century.
 
Aggelos said:
Neither Russia nor China is a communist country anymore. In fact they haven't been for a long, long time.
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russia has never denounced its past and continues to operate with an imperial mindset. China, too, remains authoritarian. It’s not just communism that’s vile—authoritarianism in all its forms is deeply troubling.
Aggelos said:
Regarding Cuba I disagree. Their woes are mostly brought upon them by the US and the west with the trade embargo and what not. Not that it would be perfect, but definitely it wouldn't be in the state it is today.
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Are the elites of Cuba actually doing anything to improve the lives of ordinary people? Nada. The regime is focused entirely on staying in power—they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their citizens.

As for the Northern European countries I mentioned, it wasn’t about which political party runs them—they just strike me as generally attractive and well-functioning societies. I can’t say the same about Southern Europe—Greece, Spain, and Italy. The nature is stunning, no doubt, but I tend to see those countries as more prone to flirtations with communism. Mea culpa if that’s a stereotype—I don’t mean to insult anyone, but that’s how I perceive it. The further you are from russia, the less you seem to grasp the true vileness of its nature. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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Azas said:
russia has never denounced its past and continues to operate with an imperial mindset. China, too, remains authoritarian. It’s not just communism that’s vile—authoritarianism in all its forms is deeply troubling.

Are the elites of Cuba actually doing anything to improve the lives of ordinary people? Nada. The regime is focused entirely on staying in power—they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their citizens.

As for the Northern European countries I mentioned, it wasn’t about which political party runs them—they just strike me as generally attractive and well-functioning societies. I can’t say the same about Southern Europe—Greece, Spain, and Italy. The nature is stunning, no doubt, but I tend to see those countries as more prone to flirtations with communism. Mea culpa if that’s a stereotype—I don’t mean to insult anyone, but that’s how I perceive it. The further you are from Russia, the less you seem to grasp the true vileness of its nature. Just my opinion, of course.
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i agree regarding authoritarian regimes. but it takes many forms. america is the same these days. Regarding russia and china they just mask their different form of capitalism under the guise of a system that cares for the little people. in their current state they are much worse than they used to be.

it's funny you think greece is prone to communism, since we never, ever had a communist government. And I mean never.

regarding cuba, as i said it is far from perfect, but i disagree with you.
 
Yax said:
Things were definitely better in some ways a few decades back, less good in other ways. But the way I see it, MAGA and Trump have paved the way for dedemocratication. This current government are playing a few hands out of the Trump playbook. Good old USA has showed its western companions that you'll do fine; you don't have to stand on law and norms.
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A lot of countries are copying the Trump playbook. I looked at Iran and Japan, and the positions there are exact copies, with Japan's far right party even going so far as to calling themselves the "Japan First" party, blaming all woes on immigrants and promising to solve the stagnant economy by getting rid of immigrants. You know, Japan, famously homogenous country and dealing with declining birth rates. But sure, killing tourism and getting more isolated is definitely gonna help.

In some way this proves that far right sentiment isn't born out of actual immigration statistics; it's all fueled by grifters and bad faith actors who push certain agendas.
 
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LooseCannon said:
Hmm, this thread isn't showing up in General Discussion.
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Weird, for me it is.

Lost in a lost world said:
I just can’t help but think he’ll wriggle or strongarm his way out of it.

Like he so many other things that should have ended his political career.
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Realistically his base will find a way to excuse this somehow. We shouldn't make it easy for them. Have them admit that they never actually cared about any of this, it was always just a talking point to rally around.
 
Azas said:
russia has never denounced its past and continues to operate with an imperial mindset. China, too, remains authoritarian. It’s not just communism that’s vile—authoritarianism in all its forms is deeply troubling.

Are the elites of Cuba actually doing anything to improve the lives of ordinary people? Nada. The regime is focused entirely on staying in power—they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their citizens.

As for the Northern European countries I mentioned, it wasn’t about which political party runs them—they just strike me as generally attractive and well-functioning societies. I can’t say the same about Southern Europe—Greece, Spain, and Italy. The nature is stunning, no doubt, but I tend to see those countries as more prone to flirtations with communism. Mea culpa if that’s a stereotype—I don’t mean to insult anyone, but that’s how I perceive it. The further you are from russia, the less you seem to grasp the true vileness of its nature. Just my opinion, of course.
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I agree with you about authoritarianism.

I’m not knowledgeable enough about modern European politics to comment but I know that, historically, many countries had communist movements of some sort in their history.

I started (but haven’t finished) reading a biography on Stalin by Stephen Kotkin. He draws a lot parallels about how Stalin copied some of the most oppressive practices from the Czarist regime (like a secret political police force) himself.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss in that case.

I dunno, Marx does a great job of analyzing the flaws in Capitalism. However, he never really left a blueprint or architected what a functioning communist society would look like. That open interpretation led to a lot of bad ideas in the name of communism.

But a lot of bad things have been done in the name of capitalism, religion, monarchy, etc, etc, too.

Edit: I went way off topic.

In current US news, the House Oversight Committee subpoenas Ghislaine Maxwell and the DOJ

abcnews.go.com

Justice Department faces subpoena over Epstein files by House Oversight Committee

House Oversight Committee Chairman Comer issues subpoena to Ghislaine Maxwell for a deposition to occur at Federal Correctional Institution Tallahassee on August 11.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

Three Republicans on the committee voted with 5 Democrats in an 8-2 result to issue these.

This is despite House Speaker Mike Johnson trying to recess congress to prevent this from moving forward.
 
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