USA Politics

Can we like, just not do this again? We've been down this and similar roads for various subjects. I know you have vastly different ideas, perspectives and view on the discourse taking place here, but fact is that you two are never going to see eye to eye and, perhaps with merit, take great personal offence in the views and the way the view is presented by the other. In short, you both think the other is an asshole, and nothing else but mutual verbal aggression will come out of this. Yep, this is a discussion board with a thread on divisive subjects, but you know... There has to be some other way for this to play out.

Look, you two are never going to sing Kumbaya together, but here's a youtube link anyway. :p
 
No worries, I had no interest in engaging further than that.

I agree that the right seems to be somewhat ignored in this equation. But it's just us reacting to "why Trump rose to power". Because the left overreached. (We may disagree on that).
Also, I think average US voters chose to ignore "far right danger" as being somewhat abstract? They chose to vote AGAINST current political party and current handling of things. To vote "against" is not wise thing to do but that's reality.
Can you explain how exactly the left overreached in your opinion?
 
I am not US citizen. I can't speak for them. Just my overall impression. The usual suspects.
bad economics (inflation) - not that Democrats are entirely to blame for that. But the Captain is always responsible for everything bad that's happening. At least it's how average voters perceive that. In my country it's the same. Government is always to blame for everything.
not very good managed immigration.
some topics regarding gender ideology (in the broad sense of the word).

I understand that those topics are very sensitive and was used and exaggerated by far right. To scare and to instigate. Also i am sure that russian machine worked over hours on those topics. But as a centrist I do see some "problems". Dems were too progressive on some topics? I will not comment any further about that, because, unlike Mustaine, i got my final warning, you know.
Also Dems sorta forgot hard working man?
I understand that I am watching US from a far and I may be very wrong here. I sorta have impression from overall infosphere.
Again if you will start to explain me that gay people want equal rights, etc. I am not against that. I support gay people marriages. But, there's always 'but'. Where there's smoke, there's fire...

some off topic, or maybe not. When I found out that Beyonce and Oprah Winfrey endorsed Kamala for some fat paycheck.... I was left with my mouth wide open. (Yes, I am naive, I know) But that left such a bad taste in my mouth. It's 100 level cynicism on behalf of those two ladies. Endorse presidential candidate if you believe in them, not for money. Such endorsement does nothing good for the candidate. It even may anger average voter. You rich bastards, do you think that You can buy everything, I will show You...
I am sure that US maidenfans can provide information from "first hands".
Again, if US voters fell for populism what does that mean? It means that Government did not enough to counteract to russia's influence on elections. Free speech is not boundless. You can not allow to spread 100% fakes. Etc. etc. etc.
All just imo and I am aware that I may be wrong.
 
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Hey, remember when Trump was supposed to "drain the swamp" and stance against the elites? Yeah, about that:

He promised to stand against elite politicians. Which, I guess, he’s doing…by appointing the top 1% of businessmen as our nations leaders. Cause surely nothing will go wrong with that.
 
Decarbonization is a step in the right direction but the goals and timelines are too ambitious and unrealistic, it ends up being too ideological -pc for the sake of it- which destroy the economy and ends up messing up the life of working people, already in recession.
All in all I’m delighted with the logic behind this nomination.
 
Not gonna lie, that was great. I am sane person after all. I understood many of those things by myself, living in the far far away. Some thoughts crystalizing in my mind right now. Something along the lines "enough with the oppression of progressyvists, or whatever they call themselves" and shaming/blaming if your opinion is not ultra progressive. Just follow your inner common sense.
and yes, far right is still bad. Just try to stay in the middle of the road. Huh.

(now it's time for the right to f* up. or simply to return to common sense.)
 
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Well, the facts are simple:

Kamala Harris did not run on identity politics. She did not campaign on trans people. You know who keeps talking about them? The GOP with 665 anti-trans bills this year alone.
She didn't run on being a woman. She didn't run on her race. She didn't mention Latinx.
She objectively ran a more right-wing platform than Biden. That's not an opinion or up for debate, that's literally an easily provable fact by looking at both campaigns and comparing them side by side.

She paraded the Cheneys around. She ran on "the most lethal military in the world". She promised to have Republicans in her administration. She tried very hard to court moderates and conservatives, while shunning progressives. She actively ran towards the middle and she lost all swing states for that. So much for "cOmMoN sEnSe".

People who try to throw progressives under the bus right now for Harris running an objectively more right-wing campaign than Biden in 2020 and losing everything (something that needs to be repeated ad nauseam to defeat this right-wing framing of her being too liberal) are the same kind of people who were screaming bloody murder back during the Civil Rights movement. Change is not easy and takes time.

In fact, if you look at actual data and evidence from polls over the years it is overwhelmingly clear that the majority of Americans believe trans individuals should be protected from discrimination. Most Americans don't care about trans people to spend every waking hour thinking about them, because they are a tiny minority that don't affect their lives in any way. Having a gender neutral bathroom in a bar isn't going to change what's currently happening. On the other hand, banning such a bathroom won't lower the cost of eggs.

There's nothing "common sense" about capitulating to the right's framing of these issues. Look at the Democratic party. There are barely any "ultra progressives" there, especially when looked at from a global POV. The Dems are center-right. If they're supposed to go further right and ignore all social aspects (which, as the data shows, are actually pretty popular when not paraded as boogeymen by the right) then what's the point of having the Democratic party in the first place? Might as well keep the GOP and forget about the Dems, since trying to out-Republican the Republicans will never work.
 
[Harris] actively ran towards the middle and she lost all swing states for that. So much for "cOmMoN sEnSe".
It’s also objective fact that she was on the record holding much further left positions when she ran in 2019/2020 and most people paying attention didn’t believe she’d had a magical centrist shift in 2024, but that she was pandering to the middle. And there were a pile of disengaged potential voters who hadn’t even realized Biden had dropped out.

This is about longer-term trends in the the public perception of the Democratic Party and how that impacts the views of the average voter. You can’t change that overnight by just declaring new positions, you have to actually walk the walk for an extended period to build up credibility that you’re saying what you actually mean, to build up trust and make the “D” next to a candidate’s name not be so toxic in large parts of the country.

Look at the Democratic party. There are barely any "ultra progressives" there, especially when looked at from a global POV.
…and yet they’re the loudest contingent of the party and form the basis of the right’s successful caricature of the party. And the issue is honestly more with the progressive base itself than with the candidates, though the progressive base has a chilling effect on what candidates think they can safely say.

The Dems are center-right. If they're supposed to go further right and ignore all social aspects (which, as the data shows, are actually pretty popular when not paraded as boogeymen by the right) then what's the point of having the Democratic party in the first place? Might as well keep the GOP and forget about the Dems, since trying to out-Republican the Republicans will never work.
It isn’t about trying to out-Republican the Republicans, it’s about returning to having a big tent party where candidates can meet the voters where they actually are and win elections, while still adhering to important national platform issues. Take the most controversial stuff out of play, focus on kitchen table concerns and on areas where Democrats’ core values play best. Rebuild the connection to the working class and frame things in socioeconomic terms rather than identity terms. Give straightforward answers to questions and don’t regurgitate nonsensical bullshit just because someone decided it needed to be progressive dogma in the first place. It shouldn’t be that hard, it will just take time, and it will require the center-left to consistently stand up to the fringe elements within their own party that are so eager to call fellow left-leaners -ists and -phobes over the tiniest perceived slight.
 
Whatever happens the specter of this report is going to follow him around should he be re-seated. I think he'll disappear from politics but make a quick resurface as a talking head on the various right-wing news outlets. Anywhere he goes whether he returns to his seat or if DeSantis for whatever reason appoints him as the holder of Rubio's vacated Senate seat he will be a distraction and have folks in his own party going against him.

The appointment as a whole as I mentioned most recently in this thread was just a mind-numbingly brain dead political move.
 
Expect one of those nearly every day for the next 4 years.
Oh, I know, but just setting yourself up to shoot yourself in the foot politically two months out from inauguration not even two weeks removed from the election (Trump was personally lobbying sitting senators just two days ago to approve Gaetz) is just baffling. I get it's Trump we're talking about and a savvy politician he is not, but, still.

Like I said before, same as it ever was.
 
He hasn’t taken the oath of office yet and is already losing cabinet appointments.

I haven’t seen anything official/trustworthy enough to post a source, but I’m seeing a lot of folks online saying Gaetz will not be joining the 2025 congress.
 
Oh, I know, but just setting yourself up to shoot yourself in the foot politically two months out from inauguration not even two weeks removed from the election (Trump was personally lobbying sitting senators just two days ago to approve Gaetz) is just baffling. I get it's Trump we're talking about and a savvy politician he is not, but, still.

Like I said before, same as it ever was.
It’s such a bungle that it almost makes me believe the theories that this was a 5D chess move to get Gaetz out of Congress. But man, I just have a hard time seeing it. Forget political savvy, all this shows is Trump has no interest in the typical political jockeying required to make this stuff works and thinks he can strong arm republicans into whatever he wants. Hard not to see this as a harbinger of what’s to come with this administration.
 
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I think the Gaetz nomination was 1) a display of Trump's narcissism, and 2) a litmus test for him to see how far reaching his sway really is.
 
It’s such a bungle that it almost makes me believe the theories that this was a 5D chess move to get Gaetz out of Congress. But man, I just have a hard time seeing it. Forget political savvy, all this shows is Trump has no interest in the typical political jockeying required to make this stuff works and thinks he can strong arm republicans into whatever he wants. Hard not to see this as a harbinger of what’s to come with this administration.
I wouldn't think Trump, Susie Wiles or Elon Musk would want Gaetz out of Congress as he's been one of Trump's strongest supporters from the House. Granted, Gaetz's political pull in the house was DOA, but he'd still find some use as a chief Trump ego fluffer there - which really is how you get on Trump's good side anyway.

I don't believe Trump ever had interest in politicking in his first term either, but I still think he's overestimating/overestimated what his actual political influence within his own party is. The Rick Scott for Majority Leader movement never took momentum and his loyalist AG pick was DOA with his own lobbying efforts doing nothing to help.

Still plenty of time to go before the inauguration, and I'm sure this is just going to get even more bizarre by the time the new year rolls around.
 
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