USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
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Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
"70 million unsaintly shrouded MAGA,
silhouettes stand against the pickup trucks,
One in front with a burning cross held high,
came to wash his sins away."
____no5
Free Man
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
I somehow get the feeling, if Biden had done what Trump has done, the reaction would be very different and we wouldn't be reading about "his sins being washed away by the vote of the people".
(By the way, what an unhinged thing to think. This line of thinking is what fascists and demagogues cling to to normalize their rhetoric)
(By the way, what an unhinged thing to think. This line of thinking is what fascists and demagogues cling to to normalize their rhetoric)
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Bro, he’s a guy from Greece living in China. That’s not to say he can’t have opinions on the US, but we’re arguing against a dude who will not be nearly as affected by this election as we are.
____no5
Free Man
I call it utter respect to democracy. Respect to what people voted in a very fair election where people were very well informed.
I explained my position very well. Interesting that you call this line of thinking fascist. If you have an alternative system or even amendment to propose, please, feel free, I’m all ears.
The guy is given the nuclear codes and the power to pardon anybody including himself.
If this is not wash of sins I don’t know what is.
And of course it would be the same for Biden.
Don't remind me. I'm probably not going to sleep very well once he has those.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Hey, for what it's worth I'm Greek and living outside the US, but at least I have some kind of grip on reality lol
This is objectively incorrect information and demonstrably untrue. The majority of voters weren't even close to being "very well informed". A big chunk of people didn't know that Biden had dropped out, on election day. A huge amount of Trump supporters have no idea about how his promised policies are supposed to function and don't know the simple fact that tariffs will do the exact opposite of what he promised in the first place. Furthermore, Trump didn't win because the majority of Americans support him; he roughly got the same base he's always had. He won because too many folks on the other side chose to sit this one out and didn't vote for Harris. That's a major difference.
Also, none of this makes the statement any less unhinged. If the majority of voters choose a fascist who promises daily to violate the constitution, that's not somehow democratic. It's literally undemocratic.
Trump has promised explicitly fascist policies. You've been told this very thing multiple times already.
lol. lmao even.
So in your opinion a person could do the worst crimes imaginable, run for president and then we're supposed to forget about the crimes? Should serial killers and pedophiles run for office to escape justice? Might've found a new loophole there!
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____no5
Free Man
If people choose freely an undemocratic person, it's still a democracy as long as the institutions stay intact. And the result should still be respected. This is the point.
From all the people who bothered to vote he got the majority. Arm chair telepathy was never an option, even in Athens in order to vote you should go to Pnyx.
Nobody was preventing them to be informed. The flow of information was uninterrupted for all to consume. 24/7 the media were ranting against Trump. What else could be done for them to be informed for your standards, perform a lobotomy and inject the truth (your truth) in their minds?
Democracy is exactly that. The "uninformed", the garbage and deplorables do have the same one vote as the intellectuals and elites have. If you cannot stomach that, then you should soul search and answer if you believe in democracy at all. Meaning the type of democracy there is today, not the idea of democracy.
That's why I was very serious when I asked you to propose a system or amendment and all you could do is to "laugh your ass out". Except it was not funny.
From all the people who bothered to vote he got the majority. Arm chair telepathy was never an option, even in Athens in order to vote you should go to Pnyx.
Nobody was preventing them to be informed. The flow of information was uninterrupted for all to consume. 24/7 the media were ranting against Trump. What else could be done for them to be informed for your standards, perform a lobotomy and inject the truth (your truth) in their minds?
Democracy is exactly that. The "uninformed", the garbage and deplorables do have the same one vote as the intellectuals and elites have. If you cannot stomach that, then you should soul search and answer if you believe in democracy at all. Meaning the type of democracy there is today, not the idea of democracy.
That's why I was very serious when I asked you to propose a system or amendment and all you could do is to "laugh your ass out". Except it was not funny.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Trump has openly stated that he will violate the constitution and several of the amendments. In other words the institutions won't stay intact. So, yeah: Undemocratic and fascistic.
That doesn't change the fact that the voters weren't even close to being well informed and that your earlier statement was objectively untrue.
Ability has no bearing, especially when misinformation is spread everywhere, something you have been guilty of as well.
This is exactly what I mean. You've been informed multiple times that large parts of the media, including Fox News which is the largest network in the US, are pro-Trump and have been pushing his agenda for quite a while. The major political channels on YouTube, a ton of TikTok accounts, the majority of podcasters; all of them pro-Trump. Stop twisting simple facts.
Not once what I said. Don't get defensive because you are called out for being objectively wrong. You claimed they were well informed. The fact that many didn't even know Biden dropped out proves you wrong
Say hello to the electoral college; inform yourself on how the electoral system of the US actually works.
Same thing to you, because all you've done in this thread is explicitly support someone who literally wants to commit fascist actions; who has multiple times promised to violate the constitution and who wants to be as undemocratic as he can.
What was funny is that you claimed to be "all ears" when you've shown time and time again that you utterly refuse to hear out other voices or respect them in any way; you lie through your teeth and play the victim card when people call you out. You support fascists and dictators, twist facts and pretend your "opinions" are just as valuable as any other opinion as well; I'm sorry, but they are not. Opinions based on conspiracies and lies are worthless and deserve no respect whatsoever.
Also, to show that your worldview is neither morally nor logically consistent:
By your own standards the majority of Americans voted for Biden in 2020, so they are in favor of the current wars and Biden's crimes and sins are washed away. Glad you were able to admit that Biden isn't at fault
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
All that bunch of guys chosen by Trump reminded me to the Primus characters on this videoclip
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
A perfect summation of the problem here.
Shocker!
…whether those arguments could actually play out in the real world or not. And actually, you don’t look for arguments at all, as an actual argument requires engagement with facts and reasoning. All you’re looking for is opinions that sound good to you, and whether they’re true or false, possible or impossible, that’s not relevant to you.
And that’s why you’re worse than a shitposting chatbot, because the chatbot would at least attempt to engage with the actual conversation and respond directly to what others wrote. You just blather on and on and periodically cycle back through your own talking points, other people’s arguments be damned.
I think this is a really important point and hope it doesn’t get buried in 5’s nonsense because it’s worth everybody keeping in mind for expectations setting. I've been saying for (unfortunately) years now that MAGA/republicans have a candidate problem which I expect will bleed into the administration just like it did in 2016. People are assuming these cabinet appointments are going to stick around the entire term when the 2016 Trump administration was constant turnover and backstabbing. What happens when everybody is in it for themselves. It's going to be even more of a challenge if Trump really is experiencing cognitive decline.
You raise the point of tariffs, but you can see this playing out in the stated goal of abolishing the department of education as well. The other side of that coin is they want to dictate what can and can't be taught in schools. How do you do that without a department of education? It's just more evidence that these aren't serious people with serious proposals.
I don't want to downplay how much of a threat a second Trump administration is going to be to general stability domestically and (especially abroad). I think he is poised to do a lot of damage, especially on the foreign policy front, but I also feel skeptical that all of a sudden he learned how to be an effective leader and is hiring people who know what they're doing. I'm expecting it to be just as chaotic and unproductive as it was the first time.
____no5
Free Man
I have to ask for evidence now. What Trump has stated and how he is going to corrupt the institutions?
Magnus
currently discounted
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
To quote you: "I don't have the time for that".
You can look at 1) things he campaigned on, 2) policies he proposed, 3) things he explicitly promised to do and 4) his Agenda 47.
Among those things you will find the explicit promise to limit the first amendment, as well as multiple policies and promises that violate the 14th amendment.
Nah, it's Brandolini's Law in effect. It takes much more effort and time to debunk some of the wild bs that is posted in this thread. You can't do that while "keeping it short".
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Unpleasant surprises like voting for fascists in the US?