Yax
Ancient Mariner
Yeah, might not be over by then anyway. Trump and Speaker Johnson have openly alluded to having the congress overturn the election if it goes to Harris (and if the House remains in GOP control).
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
The MAGA cult will never be satisfied no matter who wins. Because even if Trump wins, he'll never be able give them everything they want (an all white authoritarian America).
And since most of them seem very susceptible to wild conspiracies, just think how they will react if Kamala gets in. Another Jan 6th?
And since most of them seem very susceptible to wild conspiracies, just think how they will react if Kamala gets in. Another Jan 6th?
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
You dodged the question.
But you admittedly have a point since some experts think that the actual world's richest man is Vladimir Putin. But we'll never know for sure since most of the money he's siphoned off of the Russian economy will never be accounted for.
And guess who Vlad supports?
Probably worse, much worse even.
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
I was gonna save my “piece” for this weekend when I had time to type on my computer, but I will say this now. I will preface this by saying: I’ve had a little “ironic” quips here and there in this thread, but this all going to be genuine and “face value”.
Rabidly following the American news cycle actively rots your brain. The main point I want to try to convey here is that: the America on CNN, Fox News, any mainstream news outlet, is not the actual America. It’s just not. The real America is full of normal people like myself that are just trying to make it. We interact politely with strangers, we make small talk, we get stuck in traffic, or waiting in line somewhere. We have families, work, dreams, ambitions, and we like to have a fun here and there on the weekends. We’re not wishing for what you said, we’re just trying to make it.
The last 4 years, as an American, have been the 4 hardest years I’ve lived through. I’ve seen businesses close down from theft and vandalism, gas prices go up, price of groceries skyrocket - my family and myself have all been affected from that. You might have a data sheet somewhere that says that not true, and that’s cool, but I live here and it is true. This all happened to have happened under Biden. Kamala was there too throughout all this.
Genuinely where is the incentive to vote for Kamala here? There’s more I’ll type out this weekend. Want to quickly shoutout to @Mosh man thanks for the respect, it made me realize that these are real people I talk to on here. I know I’ve said some dicey things in here and “flew a little close to the sun” a couple times.
Rabidly following the American news cycle actively rots your brain. The main point I want to try to convey here is that: the America on CNN, Fox News, any mainstream news outlet, is not the actual America. It’s just not. The real America is full of normal people like myself that are just trying to make it. We interact politely with strangers, we make small talk, we get stuck in traffic, or waiting in line somewhere. We have families, work, dreams, ambitions, and we like to have a fun here and there on the weekends. We’re not wishing for what you said, we’re just trying to make it.
The last 4 years, as an American, have been the 4 hardest years I’ve lived through. I’ve seen businesses close down from theft and vandalism, gas prices go up, price of groceries skyrocket - my family and myself have all been affected from that. You might have a data sheet somewhere that says that not true, and that’s cool, but I live here and it is true. This all happened to have happened under Biden. Kamala was there too throughout all this.
Genuinely where is the incentive to vote for Kamala here? There’s more I’ll type out this weekend. Want to quickly shoutout to @Mosh man thanks for the respect, it made me realize that these are real people I talk to on here. I know I’ve said some dicey things in here and “flew a little close to the sun” a couple times.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
@DJ James , thanks for posting your view in a cordial manner.
I have to say, it's difficult to take "I'm just a regular guy" at face value, when you've explicitly stated multiple times that you want to vote for Trump because he makes people that annoy you mad. You have been informed before that on all topics that you mentioned and that you care about the Democrats are objectively better in every single metric. You've also been warned about what Trump's policies and agendas are, where your response was that you don't care to even inform yourself.
I respect your feelings on the matter, but I guarantee you that the last four years would've been even worse under Trump. A lot of what happened was directly due to the previous administration; that's how these things work. You can easily look up Trump's proposed policies and the fact of the matter is: another Trump administration would be disastrous for the economy. He and his friends would get richer while the middle and lower class would be eviscerated. Trump only cares about himself and billionaires, not about the common man.
I'm aware that nothing will ever change your mind, but I feel it's important to push back at some of the statements made in this thread, especially when they are literally the opposite of the truth or even straight-up lies (as some of the claims were in @Detective Beauregard's post). This isn't about ignoring reality or about "data sheets", it's about what's actually happening. Right wing media tries to claim crime is completely out of control or that cities like Portland have been completely burned down, while crime in reality has been decreasing for literal decades. That's just one of the examples.
At the end of the day everyone gets to make their own decisions. I just wish people would actually make informed decisions and spend an hour every 4 years to recognize what they are actually voting for, instead of falling for populist lies and going by vibes.
I have to say, it's difficult to take "I'm just a regular guy" at face value, when you've explicitly stated multiple times that you want to vote for Trump because he makes people that annoy you mad. You have been informed before that on all topics that you mentioned and that you care about the Democrats are objectively better in every single metric. You've also been warned about what Trump's policies and agendas are, where your response was that you don't care to even inform yourself.
I respect your feelings on the matter, but I guarantee you that the last four years would've been even worse under Trump. A lot of what happened was directly due to the previous administration; that's how these things work. You can easily look up Trump's proposed policies and the fact of the matter is: another Trump administration would be disastrous for the economy. He and his friends would get richer while the middle and lower class would be eviscerated. Trump only cares about himself and billionaires, not about the common man.
I'm aware that nothing will ever change your mind, but I feel it's important to push back at some of the statements made in this thread, especially when they are literally the opposite of the truth or even straight-up lies (as some of the claims were in @Detective Beauregard's post). This isn't about ignoring reality or about "data sheets", it's about what's actually happening. Right wing media tries to claim crime is completely out of control or that cities like Portland have been completely burned down, while crime in reality has been decreasing for literal decades. That's just one of the examples.
At the end of the day everyone gets to make their own decisions. I just wish people would actually make informed decisions and spend an hour every 4 years to recognize what they are actually voting for, instead of falling for populist lies and going by vibes.
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____no5
Free Man
Yeap. Propaganda and brainwashing are real guys. In every country, left or right. And at its most dangerous is in democratic, “free” countries, left press.
People in the “free” world tend to forget that media are shamelessly manipulating them. Additionally those on the left spectrum have the tendency to think they are inherently and morally right, and the outlets that feed them play on that.
There were 3 assassination attempts (third one under investigation google Vem Miller, October 2024) against a candidate in a span of just 3 months and nobody seems to blink on the other side.
Flaming Blimp Crash
Ancient Mariner
Probably because they were orchestrated by Republicans. Why Republicans keep trying to shoot their candidate I have no idea.
Regarding your point about the press, I have lived it personally. My BA degree from the 90s was in Journalism, and I can tell you from experience that I had to keep my political preferences to myself in order not to get failing grades from professors more interested in generating partisan propaganda than traditional objective journalism that would allow readers to reach their own conclusions.
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
While I disagree with your political stance, it’s still a well reasoned argument and I respect that.
So to answer your question strictly at face value: I’d rather be broke under Kamala than better off under an authoritarian dictator without NATO support.
(Note: as an American I’ve been fortunate and haven’t noticed much hardship one way or the other, so I’m using the above argument at face value.)
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Vem Miller did not try to assassinate Trump:
www.latimes.com
It's always the same song and dance, those who vocally attack the "left" and the press are without fail those falling for blatant lies by right wing media outlets and are spreading misinformation.
This would be so much simpler if we could stick with facts, but somehow the pro-Trump side has to constantly lie and make shit up. Guess reality really has a liberal bias
Man arrested with guns outside Trump rally sues Riverside County sheriff for defamation
Vem Miller, 49, was arrested on gun charges Saturday after deputies found loaded guns in his car. He filed a defamation suit Tuesday against Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco.
www.latimes.com
It's always the same song and dance, those who vocally attack the "left" and the press are without fail those falling for blatant lies by right wing media outlets and are spreading misinformation.
This would be so much simpler if we could stick with facts, but somehow the pro-Trump side has to constantly lie and make shit up. Guess reality really has a liberal bias
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
I appreciate the time taken to respond. In general, this is the only thing I feel like responding to.
For the last 9 odd years, these “people that annoy me” (liberals, democrats, or even both) have gone out of their way to dehumanize, belittle, and sometimes even demonize people like myself because of who we vote for. There are people out that want me dead just for voting for the guy. I don’t think that’s very kind. So, if Trump gets into office, and those same people that have been waging a war on ordinary Americans in a lose-lose scenario (voting Republican or Democrat) get upset, then yes, I will find it hard to not crack a smile.
There’s a sort of viciousness or bloodlust I see in a lot of people that think about Trump a lot. And I will say, everyone in here that I’ve seen talk about Trump thinks about the guy and talks about the guy much more than me and my friends and family do. The point I’m trying to make is: you’re thinking about the guy too much. You’re thinking about to the point where it’s consumed your entire life. Out of curiosity sometimes I go through peoples post history on here when they talk about Trump and it’ll just be pages and pages and pages of them talking about the guy. I think in general, whether he wins or loses, everything will be alright.
____no5
Free Man
According to Lichtman's model "The 13 keys to White House", if for following statements we have 6 or more FALSE replies, then challenger party wins. If TRUE are 8 or more incumbent party wins.
Allan Lichtman (replies in bold black) has Kamala for the win, I (replies in bold black or when different, red) have Trump for win.
What's yours?
- Midterm gains: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections. FALSE
- No primary contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination. TRUE
- Incumbent seeking re-election: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president. FALSE
- No third party: There is no significant third party or independent campaign. TRUE
- Strong short-term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign. TRUE
- Strong long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms. TRUE
- Major policy change: The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy. TRUE FALSE
- No social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term. TRUE FALSE
- No scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal. TRUE
- No foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs. - FALSE
- Major foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs. - FALSE
- Charismatic incumbent: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero. FALSE
- Uncharismatic challenger: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero. TRUE FALSE
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
This is absolutely true, and it’s a diagnosed disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS). Many liberals, and (worse) leftists suffer from TDS, but unfortunately, without massive clinical intervention, there is no cure. The patient needs to want to help themself, and once TDS has progressed too far, it is incurable.
The biased liberal media has done everything they can to corrupt and manipulate voters, and the average American citizen has had enough.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Oh, this is far too precious. What a disingenuous world view. The right wing has been demonizing everyone left of center. Remember when they called liberals groomers and pedophiles based on conspiracies, while every week sees another prominent conservative being exposed as one? They denigrate and attack the LGBTQ community daily. Not only verbally, but physically as well. Violence against LGBTQ individuals has risen sharply in the last years and it is directly influenced by right wing rhetoric. Furthermore, you can change who you vote for, you aren't forced to be MAGA. That's a conscious decision of an adult individual. Making fun of MAGAs is not the same as attacking someone for their heritage, their gender, their skin colour or their sexual orientation, which is something that happenes routinely. Hell, look at the recent MSG rally where one of the "comedians" joked about Puerto Ricans, natural born American citizens, being made fun of, attacked and the island called garbage. They attack your fellow Americans, so I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this pearl clutching. This sounds more like a post hoc rationalization of your already established views. I thought liberals were supposed to be the snowflakes?
Are we going to talk about "TDS" now? Sorry, but a man who is actively campaigning and one of two choices to become the most powerful individual in the world, the leader of the world's largest super power, who explicitly wants to push the US into fascism with his Agenda 47 and Project 2025 (which you've been informed of multiple times, by the way), well, such a man is incredibly important. He has promised to violate the constitution. He constantly praises foreign dictators. He is a convicted fellon. He constantly denigrates and attacks the left (I thought you cared about stuff like that?). So, no; that's just a bs talking point by the right wing to make them seem aloof and above it. We already saw ballot boxes being burned, we've seen Trump and his men casting doubt upon the election's integrity without any evidence AGAIN. They are actively working on dismantling democracy.
Edit: Also, while we're talking about "viciousness" and "bloodlust", how about some facts? For example the fact that the vast majority of domestic terrorism and political violence in the US is done by the right wing? Same for stochastic terrorism. There are plenty of reports by various agencies that prove this.
Speak of the devil, there's TDS lmao
Hey, how about you respond to the comment I made earlier where I corrected all the objectively wrong information and propaganda you were sharing?
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Azas
ELF
Why Trump became possible in U.S. in the first place, that's the question. Why Trump alike politicians gaining popularity in Europe? Imo, it's the voters reaction to the political left going too far/going to some sort of extremes in some aspects of their politics. As a politician one can not dismiss those voters as "stupid people" because it's counterproductive and in that case some other party will take their vote (in democratic country). In order to prevent radical right or radical left rise to power, democratic world needs to make some serious reevaluation of governing principles. Try to stay in the center of political spectrum and balance on the ledge, so to speak.
____no5
Free Man
I was obsessed anti Trump in 2016. I was reading all the usual suspects, NYT, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal. Too much brainwashing I guess.
*I still read them, but they don’t have the same effect on me, as I’m reading /watching outlets from all political spectrum.
By 2020 I was still anti Trump but not remotely as obsessed. See, Trump had been president already for 4 years and the world didn’t end.
Now I wouldn’t mind if he wins. It would most probably be even better.
*I still read them, but they don’t have the same effect on me, as I’m reading /watching outlets from all political spectrum.
By 2020 I was still anti Trump but not remotely as obsessed. See, Trump had been president already for 4 years and the world didn’t end.
Now I wouldn’t mind if he wins. It would most probably be even better.