USA Politics

“Biden was described by one person familiar with his mood as humiliated, devoid of confidence and painfully aware that the physical images of him at the debate — eyes staring into the distance, mouth agape — will live beyond his presidency, along with a performance that at times was meandering, incoherent and difficult to hear. ‘It’s a mess,’ this person said.”

So he appears to understand the gravity of his failure, but it remains to be seen whether he can set his ego aside and do what’s best for the country…
 
Care to explain how both of these statements can be true at the same time? If a Biden vote isn’t a pro-Biden vote, but instead an anti-Trump vote, then why would replacing Biden with a younger and more coherent Democrat hurt anything? The anti-Trump vote would still go to the Democrat unless the new candidate had some completely disqualifying issue.
The first post-debate polls show almost anyone only a few points back of Biden's levels against Trump. The question is whether or not increased familiarity with Newsom or Whitmer would move the needle the extra few points. Biden still polls as the best non-Trump option today. This means the generic Dem has a very high floor, but it remains an assumption, not a guarantee, that other candidates have a higher ceiling than Joe Biden, the sitting president.

And yes, before we get into this, if there had been a competitive primary with candidates that had better than a snowball's chance in hell (or a Minnesota congressman's chance of toppling a sitting president), the resultant candidate would be well known, but that's done and dusted and cannot be fixed or changed, so no point complaining now.

The question is whether or not a parachuted candidate can 1) hold the Biden coalition meaningfully, 2) close the awareness gap favourably, and 3) actually win this election. There's also a question as to whether or not the GOP would use dirty tricks to hold the new candidate off the ballot in places like Ohio, but I tend to think that'll be resolved because the GOP recognizes they need ballot access in the blue states.

History does not look kindly on 1. The only modern-ish time we've seen anything close to a parachuted candidate was 1968. I don't know if LBJ could have won that election, but I do think he would have had a better chance than it originally seemed, but Humphrey sat atop months of chaos before losing in a pathetic fashion. It's worth noting that progressive activists in 1968 fought back against Humphrey for many reasons, not least of which was that he hadn't bothered to enter a competitive primary beforehand. Say what you will about Newsom and Whitmer and others, they chose not to force the issue by entering the 2024 primaries Teddy Kennedy style, not least because they saw what happened to both modern presidents with insurgency runs from a major primary rival.

We don't have a comparable for 2. Newsom has been trying to raise his national profile but he still isn't well known outside of California, and his brand in California has taken a hit. Whitmer is well regarded in Michigan, and hated so much by the hard right that they were going to kidnap and possibly assassinate her, but I don't know if voter #47 in Nevada or Arizona has ever heard her name before. Likely, they'd be well introduced by the party apparatus.

So we come to 3, and in 3, I wonder if there's any comparable for switching horses this late in the race that I'm unaware of.
 
In case it was unclear in my previous comment, the "political suicide" was specifically about squandering the very real incumbency bonus for no reason.
 
In case it was unclear in my previous comment, the "political suicide" was specifically about squandering the very real incumbency bonus for no reason.
As far as I can tell there’s been no attempt to quantify this advantage, other than noting that 20 presidents have been re-elected for second terms while 10 have failed. And 4 of the 10 failures were during recessions.

Trying to imagine incumbency overcoming a stat like this is pretty difficult, though:
 
Interesting AXIOS article.


Dr. Jill Biden; his younger sister, Valerie Biden; and 85-year-old Ted Kaufman, the president's longtime friend and constant adviser — plus a small band of White House advisers — are the only Biden deciders.
This decades-long kitchen cabinet operates as an extended family, council of elders and governing oligarchy. These allies alone hold sway over decisions big and small in Biden's life and presidency.

AXIOS suggests Harris should /would be the nominee if any.
 
AXIOS suggests Harris should /would be the nominee if any.
This seems nuts to me, since she’s nearly as unpopular as Biden. Forget the woke checkboxes when democracy is on the line — you need to put the person with the best chance of winning at the top of that ticket, even if it’s another cis hetero white male.
 
This seems nuts to me, since she’s nearly as unpopular as Biden. Forget the woke checkboxes when democracy is on the line — you need to put the person with the best chance of winning at the top of that ticket, even if it’s another cis hetero white male.

Absolutely agree with the note that she may be even more unpopular than Joe.
I think AXIOS are on the PC side and this was the institutional & PC (woman, black, Asian) thing to suggest.

The question remains: Why on earth Democrats woke up and discovered what the entire world knew (Biden’s mental decline) so late in the game?
Why this conversation didn’t happen with this intensity a year ago?
@Jer Any thoughts?
 
The question remains: Why on earth Democrats woke up and discovered what the entire world knew (Biden’s mental decline) so late in the game? Why this conversation didn’t happen with this intensity a year ago?
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…or, The Emperor Has No Clothes. Take your pick.

Everybody saw the warning signs but willfully ignored them, tried to protect the candidate by sidestepping the primary challenges, and hoped the incumbency advantage and the fact that Biden won last time would be enough to hang their hats on. Hubris, fear, whatever you want to call it. Obviously it was a terrible call on their part.
 
flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

…or, The Emperor Has No Clothes. Take your pick.

I choose the Emperor! :D

Everybody saw the warning signs but willfully ignored them, tried to protect the candidate by sidestepping the primary challenges, and hoped the incumbency advantage and the fact that Biden won last time would be enough to hang their hats on. Hubris, fear, whatever you want to call it. Obviously it was a terrible call on their part.

Simply nuts. As I said above Democrats are too focused on Trump which is dragging them straight to disaster.
And I don’t mean loosing the elections; I mean loosing their identity, becoming laughing stock, sold for power. It’s so wrong I cannot even fathom.
 
Further to above I don’t believe that the cause justify the means. Or that results is all that matters, not the process or maintaining one’s values.

In this light I saw it as a questionable move to nominate Biden in 2020 when he was kind of sound, let alone nominate him in 2024.

No matter if Democrats win or loose in my view it was a terrible mistake to nominate him this time, period.
 
Wish I saw the same mental decline that y’all see.
It's just wishful thinking at this point.

Yes, Biden is old. Yes, he's not as quick as he was 20 or 30 years ago. But all this talk about "dementia" and "mental decline" has no basis in reality.

The man is not a great orator and has had to fight with his stutter for his whole life. Pointing out the bad debate where he had a freaking cold as if that's the disqualifying measure is ridiculous, particularly when we saw that he can still be quick and witty literally right after the debate as well as on the day after.

In a perfect world all parties would have candidates that are decades younger than Biden and Trump. This isn't happening right now and whether one likes Biden or not, he is the Democrat with the best chances to defeat Trump.
 
The view from a non-US citizen and someone with a more passing interest in their politics - Biden looks like an exhumed corpse, moves like a poorly constructed robot and frequently descends into incoherent mumbling. My grandparents and the owner of the company I work for are all of an age with Biden and display more robustness and mental acuity, and I wouldn't consider any of them to be fit enough for high political office.

The Democrats could have picked anyone halfway decent to put Trump away and walk this election, but they were arrogant/impotent enough to let Biden continue on in embarassing fashion, now it is too late to get someone new to take his place, sheer arrogance and hubris. Given the US president's role as 'leader of the free world' , I hope for the world's sake that this electoral cycle is the last one to be ruled by gerontocracy.
 
Wish I saw the same mental decline that y’all see.
Watch more of his unscripted speaking events and it should become eminently clear. It’s not like this just started with the recent debate — the problem with the debate was that it exemplified all of the existing fears about Biden’s mental state in a pretty horrifying “greatest hits” fashion.

The progressive duckspeakers just keep regurgitating unfounded talking points about how this was “one bad performance” and Biden is still supposedly the best candidate to beat Trump, but if you’re paying attention it’s painfully clear that this isn’t actually the case.

If Biden wins it will be because more people hate Trump than hate the idea of a cinder block running the country. That’s the only reason I’ll be voting for Biden if he’s still the nominee in November — a barely functional zombie with his heart in the right place is still better than a wannabe tinpot dictator who wants to tear down our institutions.
 
I heard a sad but darkly funny comment that if SCOTUS somehow sides with Trump on complete Presidential immunity that Biden should immediately order the assassinations of Trump, the 6 conservative members of SCOTUS, and every Republican congressman and senator who didn’t vote for any of the impeachments or potential convictions of Trump. And really, the Trumpers couldn’t complain on principle if that happened.

Obviously this would be a nightmare scenario if it actually happened, but it’s a funny thought…
 
There is a certain denial from people to see things as they are, this « Biden had a cold » is obviously a BS as next day he was energized and commanding as fuck.
Not to mention that Obama or Harris didn’t bother to offer « cold » as excuse.
So no, he hadn’t catch a cold. Doctors screwed up with the drugs and they kicked in a day later :D (my opinion, not an undisputed fact)

This.
The view from a non-US citizen and someone with a more passing interest in their politics - Biden looks like an exhumed corpse, moves like a poorly constructed robot and frequently descends into incoherent mumbling. My grandparents and the owner of the company I work for are all of an age with Biden and display more robustness and mental acuity, and I wouldn't consider any of them to be fit enough for high political office.

The Democrats could have picked anyone halfway decent to put Trump away and walk this election, but they were arrogant/impotent enough to let Biden continue on in embarassing fashion, now it is too late to get someone new to take his place, sheer arrogance and hubris. Given the US president's role as 'leader of the free world' , I hope for the world's sake that this electoral cycle is the last one to be ruled by gerontocracy.
 
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