USA Politics

white guilt and black supremacy.
White guilt probably should exist, considering how absolutely terrible white people are towards blacks, statistically speaking. I've never seen a BLM person suggesting blacks need to be in charge of anyone. The most common protest they use is that they don't want to get murdered out of hand by the police - a reasonable desire, for most people.

(and it is probably best described as a loose confederation with some small portions being actually organized)
Yes, this is a good way to describe it.

But there are certainly some militant elements of it that are flat out racist and are using these issues (some of which I have sympathy for) as a cover for violence and personal gain(see looting) and blaming that on "frustration"
All popular movements have people that abuse it, and I definitely agree this has happened with BLM in some cases, or that BLM events have been used as cover for a small amount of people to loot or riot. It's hard to blame an entire movement for that, especially when the movement is explicitly non-violent, which BLM is - hence my original comments.

I was disconcerted by the BLM movement in Toronto holding up the recent pride parade, for example, demanding that police groups be excluded from the parade (a bad and stupid thing to demand) and demanding that more trans people be hired as part of the organizing committee (probably a very good thing to demand). Overall, it felt a little forced. But I certainly agree with the basic premise of BLM, which is that institutional racism in western policing (and the USA in particular) exists and must be stopped.
 
I disagree with white guilt, I don't feel guilty because I have not done anything towards black people to feel guilty about. Some whites should feel guilty, some blacks should, some gays should, some straights should, and on and on and on. But collective guilt is nonsense
 
White guilt probably should exist.

No it shouldn't. You were not responsible for the past atrocities that happened, you are not responsible for the sins of your proverbial father. You can look back on that time and say "Never again shall we allow that to happen", but we shouldn't feel guilty over something we had no responsibility over.

There is a fine line between being a racist asshole and a pushover cultural appropriator. I try to avoid crossing either side as much as possible.

I've never seen a BLM person suggesting blacks need to be in charge of anyone. The most common protest they use is that they don't want to get murdered out of hand by the police - a reasonable desire, for most people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

24% of the people shot dead by police in the US this year so far were black. Black people make up 13% of the population, and yet they commit around half of violent crimes, such as homicides. With regards to the argument about the unarmed, both unarmed white and black people make up 3% each of the people shot dead by the police.

Police brutality is bad, but it is not a problem that is almost exclusively linked with African-Americans.
 
I disagree with white guilt, I don't feel guilty because I have not done anything towards black people to feel guilty about. Some whites should feel guilty, some blacks should, some gays should, some straights should, and on and on and on. But collective guilt is nonsense

They should only feel guilty if they've actually done something wrong.
 
I am curious if someone has a figure showing how many black people were killed after they have done nothing (enough to be killed)?
And a figure of all people who were killed after they have done nothing (enough to be killed)?

"I was not responsible." That's so easy to say. But how difficult is it to be not aware that there is terrible racism going on, as LC describes?

Responsibility. Who feels responsible enough to hope for a society that changes for the better? Everyone who votes Trump, everyone who wants to leave all weapons of all sorts out on the streets, without any change in restrictions: They are not directly responsible for the shootings, but they are for keeping things the same and possibly for making things worse. All this makes for a horrendous cocktail.
 
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No it shouldn't. You were not responsible for the past atrocities that happened, you are not responsible for the sins of your proverbial father. You can look back on that time and say "Never again shall we allow that to happen", but we shouldn't feel guilty over something we had no responsibility over.
I don't particularly feel like I am responsible for the generations that came before me, but I am not talking about that. I do feel like I am partially responsible for the inabilities of my current generation to promote equality and to ensure that crimes against particular racial groups never happen. For example, in Canada, our majority white country has failed to properly investigate the deaths of many hundreds of native women over the past 20 years. A notorious serial killer, Robert Pickford, used this uncaring attitude to murder at least 50 women before he was caught, most of whom were aboriginal - and as many as 200. So yes, I feel that being white should come with a particular responsibility to ensure what happens today is as fair as possible, because where I come from, there's still way the fuck more white people than anything else, unlike the USA, where white people are getting close to being outnumbered (but still hold the vast majority of political and economic power). This should come with any demographic to which someone belongs.

I do not believe in reparations to descendants of people who were affected by those crimes, but I am fine with the idea of paying it to living survivors of crimes against humanity, such as people interned in the Japanese internment camps or Native-Canadian survivors of the residential school system.

24% of the people shot dead by police in the US this year so far were black.
The WaPo includes 9% of their number as "unknown", so it's more accurate to say "At least 24% of the people shot dead by police in the US this year so far were black." It's also important to note that unlike many statistics, the US government does not keep track of police shootings, so that number is based on information the WaPo can pull from press accounts around the country. Until the US starts keeping proper records on police shootings, we won't have definitive numbers.

Black people make up 13% of the population, and yet they commit around half of violent crimes, such as homicides.
First of all, I don't know where you got "around half". Here's the most recent numbers I got from the FBI: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf
That says the rate was 38.5%, far closer to 1/3rd than 1/2, and easily accurately displayed as 2/5ths. Race isn't everything, of course - inner city poverty has a lot to do with it, and the general rate of incarceration among black men likely helps as well.

Police brutality is bad, but it is not a problem that is almost exclusively linked with African-Americans.
Nobody said it was. Even Black Lives Matter doesn't say it was. They are pointing out that statistically, a black person is more likely to be killed by a cop than a white person. Specifically when that person is not in the commission of a violent crime, such as Tamer Rice, or the two men murdered this weekend for having legal firearms. There's no doubt in my mind that if I am a white guy in an open carry state, I've been pulled over, and I say, to the officer, "Just to let you know, I have a gun on me," before I get my license, I live through that encounter every time. A black guy got straight up murdered for having a legal gun.

Huh, where's the NRA bitching about that guy's freedoms to carry a gun?
 
What is somewhat ironic about this is that the police chief in dallas has been fighting battle after battle with the police union to make it easier to fire bad cops and introduce deescalation training that by every measure has reduced the numbet of bad incidents drastically.
 
What is somewhat ironic about this is that the police chief in dallas has been fighting battle after battle with the police union to make it easier to fire bad cops and introduce deescalation training that by every measure has reduced the numbet of bad incidents drastically.
Absolutely. By all accounts, the leadership in Dallas has been a leader in reducing unnecessary police violence and increasing accountability on all fronts, and they should be lauded for their leadership. I doubt the person who committed the murders last night is aware of that, though.
 
Absolutely. By all accounts, the leadership in Dallas has been a leader in reducing unnecessary police violence and increasing accountability on all fronts, and they should be lauded for their leadership. I doubt the person who committed the murders last night is aware of that, though.

Was aware of that*, considering he's dead.

Will respond to your bulk post in a bit.

What even happened to that idea about all cops wearing video cameras?

A lot of impracticalities as well as a question of ethics prevent that from becoming a thing.
 
I might be wrong on my assessment of the situation because I follow the issue from quite a distance, but I'll give my two cents anyway.

From what I see the problem in the US is not racial, but rather an issue of paranoia. Cops are paranoid about black people. Black people are paranoid about cops. It creates an unhealthy atmosphere. The root of the problem is really the social situation of black people, e.g. common gang activities, black on black crime, etc. What should be addressed is the social constraints black people face. If the unemployment, poverty and lack of education among black people in the hood declines, I don't doubt that the police brutality against black people will decline as well. What makes cops paranoid about black folks is the exact same thing that hurts black folks the most.

The issue at hand is a black issue, but it's not a racial issue per se. Prejudice is a real thing here, but it's not fueled by racism, rather from paranoia.

What makes the issue even more difficult is that you have far too many people arguing that black people have these issues because of their culture or way of living (Which is BS and a racial supremacist approach), and you also have far too many people arguing that police is targeting black people because of racist ideologies. Neither of these seems to be true.
 
I can see how black people can be paranoid of cops, these days.

But I don't see why racism would not have to do with prejudice vs black people. Isn't racism a root, and aren't paranoia and prejudice consequences?
 
But I don't see why racism would not have to do with prejudice vs black people. Isn't racism a root, and aren't paranoia and prejudice consequences?

I don't think cops think inherently "This guy is black. So he must be a savage gang member". They're afraid that they might be, because gang activity is quite widespread among black people. When being afraid combines with having a gun in your hand, training for no hesitance to shoot and lack of experience, the results can be tragic.

Let me give you an example to draw the line between racism and paranoia. I'm quite afraid in public transportation that a guy might blow himself up or shoot people. I'm afraid that there are a lot of people in Turkey who would do such a thing. Now, I can't be racist or prejudiced about my own people, I know that people like me exist and I know that people who wouldn't do such a thing are the majority. But that still doesn't clear my paranoia. If I see someone acting suspiciously, especially when I'm talking to them, chances are I might go into self defense mode straight away. And I'm just an Average Joe, imagine if I had a gun in my hand and a green light to shoot people.
 
I don't think that individual police officers are racist, in general. I do think that they have been "trained" (not actual training, but a more implicit form of training) to distrust black people compared to white people. It's this attitude, this underlying method of doing things that is racist. The system is racist, but individual people probably aren't, except when they are working as part of the system. And that's where Americans really need to focus on fixing things.
 
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Travis, what the fuck does that even mean?

Edit: It's literally rambling.

Some white cops have killed some black citizens unnecessarily. ONE lone gunman has now committed murders of cops. We don't know why yet.

Who the fuck are they?

Who is seriously talking about martial law? The Governor of Texas isn't, the President of the United States isn't.
 
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It doesn't matter since none of you are even willing to be open about the various conspiracy theories that are out there.

Basing an argument on solely inductive reasoning, or what COULD happen is not a strong enough argument, I'm afraid. This is why many people don't take conspiracy theories seriously.
 
Basing an argument on solely inductive reasoning, or what COULD happen is not a strong enough argument, I'm afraid. This is why many people don't take conspiracy theories seriously.
Well, I think it's a good idea to be open to ALL possibilities since you never know what could happen. Sadly, if any of it does come true, there's not a whole lot we'll be able to do about it.
 
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