Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I wonder if that is entirely true. I doubt if that is the only option.
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UK Politics
- Thread starter CriedWhenBrucieLeft
- Start date
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
We've seen all the possibilities, but the law is the law. You won't provide any new suggestions that haven't been brought up already. If you have, then please get in touch with the relevant people in Brussels and Westminster.
This is known.
We don't know if that would command a majority in parliament. Labour's policy is to have one but the shadow cabinet and many Labour MPs don't want it. The government doesn't want it either.
I reiterate: the law is the law. Both UK and EU law. Unless the law is amended in the next 16 days then the UK will leave the EU. Yes, the law can be changed but a lot of people need to agree to it first.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I really think that UK politics cannot agree on whatever form of exit. Then the question is: what to do with this disagreement:
A. We do nothing, we stay divided, we leave without a deal
B. We accept that we cannot do this ourselves: we cannot exit sensibly, and we realize it is irresponsible to exit without a deal, so let the fuck give the vote back to the people.
B is the only sensible thing to do. Plan B!
A. We do nothing, we stay divided, we leave without a deal
B. We accept that we cannot do this ourselves: we cannot exit sensibly, and we realize it is irresponsible to exit without a deal, so let the fuck give the vote back to the people.
B is the only sensible thing to do. Plan B!
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
What if the people vote to leave under your plan B?
The only way this is going to work is by both sides (i.e. Westminster and Brussels) willing to compromise more. So far the EU has remained firm; I am not sure if that would still be the case under a no deal situation, with the unrest it could cause in all the businesses in continental Europe that depend on easy trade with the UK suddenly go bust.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Or if the result is closer than the original referendum? Such as a 51-49 result in favour of remain rather than 52-48 in favour of leave? Does a narrower but different result supercede the original, clearer result? What is the question on the ballot paper? Do we have a third referendum parliament can't deliver on the result of the second one?
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
What is on the ballot (if there were to be one) is really the question. The ballot before was fairly straight forward, stay or go. The issue now is really stay and revoke the last ballot, go as it is currently, stay with demands, go with demands, and probably others. How that translates to coherent voting options is beyond me.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Wtf, you totally quoted me out of context. I specifically stated that these would be the options if one of the EU states didn't allow an extension. I didn't claim these were the only options right now. Read what I said.
Again, who is this aimed at? You see more options than Wiz & I?! I don't think so. I'm perfectly aware of the possiblities, I'm simply stating what I think might happen. I don't control events ffs.
In respect to another referendum: this would still need to be agreed as a course of action by the UK Parliament in the next few weeks, okay'd by the EU (i.e. an extension granted), and legislation passed before the 29th. And that would also kick the deadline to deep into 2019, probably near Christmas.
It'll be very tricky.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
This is totally an outsiders view, but it is a two way street. IIRC, there were requests made by the UK about EU reform that were not met (not that they all should have, but not met enough at least), which lead to the vote to start with.
The EU (some countries more than others) will have a negative short term impact, some probably almost as bad as the UK without a workable deal, and there is not doubt there is a rise in anti-EU parties in several countries. A downturn will probably be a boost to anti-EU parties in some countries to the point of getting impossible to ignore when forming governments.
I do think the EU needs to take a hard look at itself to see why this came to pass and why there are threats (perhaps not to leave, but to ratchet things back) in the other member countries, obviously the UK is a bit unique, but so are the former East Block countries. In any case, I think a hard line EU stance might "punish" the UK for leaving, but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater to a certain extent and it should look to see if it is going too far too fast and recognize that there is opposition to that course and not just ignore it and write them off as temporary insanity.
The attitude I see from Brussels seems to be that things are generally great and we have no clue why anyone would want to leave, they have their heads in the sand. That attitude certainly helps anti-EU parties.
Being in the US, I do not follow the EU as closely as most here, but the EU really needs to take a look in the mirror.
The EU (some countries more than others) will have a negative short term impact, some probably almost as bad as the UK without a workable deal, and there is not doubt there is a rise in anti-EU parties in several countries. A downturn will probably be a boost to anti-EU parties in some countries to the point of getting impossible to ignore when forming governments.
I do think the EU needs to take a hard look at itself to see why this came to pass and why there are threats (perhaps not to leave, but to ratchet things back) in the other member countries, obviously the UK is a bit unique, but so are the former East Block countries. In any case, I think a hard line EU stance might "punish" the UK for leaving, but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater to a certain extent and it should look to see if it is going too far too fast and recognize that there is opposition to that course and not just ignore it and write them off as temporary insanity.
The attitude I see from Brussels seems to be that things are generally great and we have no clue why anyone would want to leave, they have their heads in the sand. That attitude certainly helps anti-EU parties.
Being in the US, I do not follow the EU as closely as most here, but the EU really needs to take a look in the mirror.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Tomorrow...
This is the reality Foro. Doesn't matter what you or I (or Wiz) think should happen.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Removing the unnecessary personal anger at me:
Finally some decent talk covering more possibilities. Well done, well done.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I am aware. I have been following it all evening.
If it suits you well enough that personal opinions are not important. Fine man.
But there is no certain outcome. I dare to have a voice of my own. Speak otherwise. Insiders do not dare to do so. Or are just afraid of voicing their minority opinion. Not me. Yes, you.
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GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
I wholeheartedly agree with your views.
I would add that the EU is going to be in a bit of a pickle with the sad unstoppable rise of the far right in continental Europe.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Old news. Americans and British are behind.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
This is from the BBC, who you were shouting at earlier...
How about you stop talking to some imaginery straw man & actually discuss this with people on this forum? I find this tone really condescending Foro.
I've been following this for three years.
Another straw man. Nobody is gagging you here. You're literally talking straight past me though.
You're conflating "minority view" & unlikely events. I'm merely telling you about likelihoods, not telling you my wishlist.
Again, how is this constructive?
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Speaking of distracting talk, let's discuss all the imaginary alternative options in fantasy land and ignore the reality of law and parliamentary procedure!