UK Politics

The Independent has been doing it the most as far as I can see, but there was a rash of articles appearing here and there all over the place recently. The same with the 'if Brexit goes ahead we'll have no diabetes medication/have to pay a fortune for visas to go on holiday' type of story. It comes across as editorial policy to cash in on whatever's trending. Meanwhile, the anti-EU bias is still going strong in the popular press.
 
I can see where Bruce is coming from, but that brand of cheerful overoptimism is typical of those already on the gravy train. Given that his airline is based in Malta (is it even still operating?), and most members of Maiden live abroad, he's maybe not the greatest advocate for the British economy. Even the Cardiff business might never have happened if the Welsh Government hadn't invested heavily.
 
Brigantium said:
I can see where Bruce is coming from, but that brand of cheerful overoptimism is typical of those already on the gravy train. Given that his airline is based in Malta (is it even still operating?), and most members of Maiden live abroad, he's maybe not the greatest advocate for the British economy. Even the Cardiff business might never have happened if the Welsh Government hadn't invested heavily.
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Bruce, unlike some of his band members, is a UK taxpayer and has invested heavily in Cardiff Aviation (foolishly, some people would say) and other British companies. ;)

I agree with some of the points he makes (in particular about the unelected EU bureaucrats), but also feel he is overly optimistic about the whole thing. That probably stems from him being a dreamer...

I just hope he is right and we would all agree to continue working/collaborating/trading as friendly neighbours when the UK leaves the EU.
 
GhostofCain said:
Bruce, unlike some of his band members, is a UK taxpayer and has invested heavily in Cardiff Aviation (foolishly, some people would say) and other British companies. ;)
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Bruce is, yes, but he's also giving Maiden as a fantastic example of a British export that crosses borders. That's not quite going to work the same away as a shoe factory in Scarborough. :D

Bruce also strikes me as one of the increasingly rare examples of an old school businessman, interested in investing in something that's going to give a modest return only, and interested in running businesses which actually involve doing or producing something practical.
 
I get his perspective but I simply do not understand how EU is federal and what's the issue with "unelected bureocrats". Furthermore he asserts that EU started as a market, and that's ok but political federal thing is not ok and because of that, UK is too tight to EU and losing on worldwide trade and connections. Now I don't own an industrial business and I don't know all the caveats UK business have to go through, but reliance on the EU market comes from EU market not from "federal EU" or whatever. Whenever you make trade deals you make concessions in order to profit elsewhere. Thinking that you can get trade just like that, a bit naive. Again Bruce is anything but stupid and his company is going to make profits and jobs out of this, judging by the way he behaves about it. But be honest and say, look it is going to be easier for me to create jobs because this rules set by EU favour French/German/Spain aero business. Going on some grand political scale about it is a bit absurd - especially the Vladimir Putin part which to me sounds like Russia is going to invade/influence EU on such a scale they're going to rule over it, so we better GTFO before it happens. As if being in EU doesn't bring security vs. Russia.
 
Zare said:
I get his perspective but I simply do not understand how EU is federal and what's the issue with "unelected bureocrats".
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He is basically disagreeing with other people's views (e.g. that of Macron) of a more centralised EU with less power for the state members. The way the EU is evolving would mean the UK using their veto more and more often were the UK to stay in the EU.

From a British perspective (and this is something that many people in favour of Brexit and Remain can agree on), his point is about unelected bureaucrats making decisions that have an effect on people that did not elect said bureaucrats in the first instance and, therefore, cannot deselect them. It is a way probably related to the way democracy works here.
 
GhostofCain said:
From a British perspective (and this is something that many people in favour of Brexit and Remain can agree on), his point is about unelected bureaucrats making decisions that have an effect on people that did not elect said bureaucrats in the first instance and, therefore, cannot deselect them. It is a way probably related to the way democracy works here.
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A basic civics lesson on the importance of unelected bureaucrats is available by viewing the excellent (British) tv series Yes, Minister and it's evolution Yes, Prime Minister. These things are normal in modern democracy, and I call bullshit on the idea that it's worrisome. These bureaucrats were hired by a government; the government is elected and bureaucrats tend to have a strong sense of protecting the institution of government.
 
Cain I get that too, but as LC says there's a huge part of the usual democracy machine that isn't elected in the first place.
 
Zare said:
Cain I get that too, but as LC says there's a huge part of the usual democracy machine that isn't elected in the first place.
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True.

Anyway, I think the main criticism made when using the "unelected bureaucrats" sentence is what many refer to as the “democratic deficit” of the EU: a lack of direct accountability to voters.
 
As ever, I feel half of the gripes about the EU apply equally to the British state in isolation too. We have masses of unelected bureaucrats, and much worse, in my opinion, over representation of private sector parties in policy think tanks, and private sector consultants influencing governance in the public sector. Anti-bureaucratic sentiment is one of several 'antis' driving Brexit, no matter how much supporters like Bruce package the whole thing as positive and forward-thinking change.

I'd have a lot more sympathy with the Brexit camp if it prioritised sensible solutions for specific issues and preached leaving the EU as secondary or complementary to that. Like, for example, what decisions and policies have they specifically disagreed with, and could it be done a better way for the general good of the population (and not purely to benefit the critics personally)?
 
I worry that the end state of Brexit is a xenophobic fear that important decisions are being made by teams of diplomats that, en masse, aren't English. That an important distinction, because the Welsh and Scots, especially, are used to the feeling that their bureaucratic decisions are undertaken by those of a different diaspora.
 
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