UK Politics

I don't think Labour want to be any part of that shit. The other option, I guess, would a referendum on no deal, TM's deal, or no Brexit
 
I'm not comfortable with the idea of another referendum. It doesn't feel right asking the question again and I'd rather not have months of campaigning, accusing and lying yet again. However, it could put an end to all this chaos which wouldn't be a bad thing...
 
I can see how another referendum with three options (current deal, no deal or no Brexit at all) could be seen as a more fair solution - especially since the original referendum was held without any idea of what the outcome would be.

However, I wonder how other major EU countries and the EU as a whole would react. The UK have said A and are expected to say B.
 
I think a second referendum would be fair, given the very low turnout and very narrow margin by which the vote was won by the Brexiteers, not to mention the high degree of misinformation in the campaign. In my very own personal opinion, we cannot safely say that this reflects the will of the British population. I doubt it will happen, given that the two major parties are for some reason both led by Brexit supporters. Which is unfortunate.
 
Black Wizard said:
I'm not comfortable with the idea of another referendum. It doesn't feel right asking the question again and I'd rather not have months of campaigning, accusing and lying yet again.
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^This.

I don't see it changing much, except maybe they'd get go-ahead for a no deal Brexit, which is probably what the backbenchers wanted all along. It's a mess. Despite having the money and energy to campaign so hard, the pro-Brexit camp has never ever had a plan, nor any kind of unity.
 
Perun said:
not to mention the high degree of misinformation in the campaign.
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Indeed. This time people finally realize what this really means. It does not look well. And it is not possible to get a much better deal. Europe will not give much more. The UK will not get much more.

So, more peope are informed now, have less faith in lies by the Out campaign and deserve another choice.
 
A DUP chap was on the radio this mornin, he says they demand more. He said ththey want unhindered trade with the EU (status quo) but also to be free to make their own side deals with anyone and everyone. Good luck with that.
The Federation of Small Businesses in Northern Ireland and the Ulster Farmers Union both think that the deal is good and will benefit the NI economy. DUP say its bad and will wreck the economy. I think I'll go with the people who sell shit on this one.
 
They probably should have asked what kind of Brexit was preferred in the original referendum. I suspect a "soft" Brexit would have won by a significant margin, then there'd be no belief in the will of the people being a "hard" Brexit.

I think the EU should say fuck 'em and force a hard Brexit on them.
 
I honestly don't think a soft Brexit would have been a popular option among Leave voters, nor do I think extra information that's since been made clear as day on the nuts and bolts of leaving the EU has resulted in a major swing in public opinion.

I know a change of heart is being reported in certain sections of the press (it vindicates Remain-sympathetic readers and makes for angry hits/clicks and blazing rows in comments columns). However, outside of isolated reports and restricted or targeted surveys, I've yet to hear of any Leave voter regretting their choice. If anything, more people are growing impatient and resentful of the delays and bickering in Parliament. There's always been popular conspiracy theorism around this issue, claiming that the government/establishment would never allow Brexit to happen because of their self-interest - I swear these people watch far too much American television (!). The image of Britain's political leaders resisting the supposed will of the people could well bring more of the non-voters out for the Brexit camp.

'Out' was widely interpreted as a clean break, total consolidation of all aspects of UK sovereignty, being released from any commitments or responsibilities associated with the EU, and potentially reversing* some regulations introduced in association with EU membership. The principle was of higher priority than the specifics....hence the totally disorganised mess among the current leadership, come to think of it. Quite what would be left in terms of a deal after all this is unlikely to be even remotely acceptable to the EU negotiators. I'm sorry if this comes across as a kick in the teeth or a personal rejection to all those who strongly believe in the EU, including those of us who voted Remain. Remember a lot of the sentiment attached to Brexit is anti-establishment or anti-bureaucratic.

*I find this part especially a matter of concern. Given that the more centrist Conservative politicians are being purged by successive upheavals and rows in the party, this leaves the opportunity open for the more oddball second-rate backbenchers (I won't call them radicals, the ones I've met are actually just oddballs) to have control and get their own agenda through on the back of populist sentiment.
 
Brigantium said:
'Out' was widely interpreted as a clean break, total consolidation of all aspects of UK sovereignty, being released from any commitments or responsibilities associated with the EU, and potentially reversing* some regulations introduced in association with EU membership.
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Taking away all the current complexities & all the noise of the campaign (anti-immigration, etc), I think this pretty neatly sums up what most leave voters probably felt/wanted. Or at least, that reads (as someone who didn't vote leave) as totally acceptable & reasonable. However, one still has to accept that this is a big ask in terms of execution for the UK government/parliament; as should be obvious from current events. This was also never going to happen quickly. Some elements were also always in danger of moving from difficult to intractable.

I'm quite conflicted about my overall feelings right now. It's all very messy.
 
Cameron seems quite reasonable compared to some of the fringe politicians who are now being drawn further into the spotlight.
 
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