The Genesis of Somewhere in Time

[Luisma]

I fail to see the connection I'm afraid.
In my wet dreams, Maiden were at some point releasing a collection of rarities - Eddie's Archive-like - including stuff from Den's time; with this lawsuit chances of that happening seem to be about zero? (I'm not even mentioning the sad fact of V1 disbanding, which is a bloody shame in itself).
Also I don't see why people who didn't want to share those bootlegs (which I understand, no matter how much I envy them) before the lawsuit even existed would do so afterwards.

All I know about the subject is that some people that have those bootlegs are waiting to see what happens. I know that Barry, for example, is one of those that wants to release them (or wanted, is being a while since I talked to him) but wanted to wait for the matter to be resolved (dunno exactly why, think is for copyright reasons or fearing any action by Maiden).

Other fans that have them just hold them for exchange for something equally important or precious.

 

[Luisma]

There is some stuff available at this point. Is it from your channel?

Can't say Wilcock has improved since either. The man just really can't sing in tune, and the quality of the voice itself is abysmal.

He never was really contracted because of his vocals but for his stage presence. He was really really good on that aspect but Maiden would never have done it with him, although in Gibraltar he used to sing much, much better.

 

[Magnus]

There is some stuff available at this point. Is it from your channel?

Can't say Wilcock has improved since either. The man just really can't sing in tune, and the quality of the voice itself is abysmal.

He was quite ok in the 70s, and he hadn't been singing for what, three decades? The Gibraltar and V1 demos are quite ok again, better, I'd say, than Blaze's albums with Maiden.
And, as @Luisma said, it was his stage presence that mattered back then - and, I'd add, his organizational skills: look whose phone number it is on the ad looking for "no idiots".
Also for some reason many people seem to remember that Den was the guy who fired Dave Murray but forget he was also the guy who brought him to Maiden in the first place.

 

[Luisma]

He was quite ok in the 70s, and he hadn't been singing for what, three decades? The Gibraltar and V1 demos are quite ok again, better, I'd say, than Blaze's albums with Maiden.
And, as @Luisma said, it was his stage presence that mattered back then - and, I'd add, his organizational skills: look whose phone number it is on the ad looking for "no idiots".
Also for some reason many people seem to remember that Den was the guy who fired Dave Murray but forget he was also the guy who brought him to Maiden in the first place.

I think that Dennis didn't keep signing after the whole Gibraltar thing fell my friend but you do present a great point. Dennis did help Maiden grow by his other talents, not only we have to remember the thing about the phone number we also have to take into consideration that the business cards had the logo he created (the bleeding mouth)

 

[Deleted member 7164]

This song has gone better and better through the years. I see it as this :


Prowler 1977 : Viagra-loaded demented grandpa on a walking frame ran away from nursing home and is seen in a local park drooling at girls. Keep him occupied while you call 911.

Prowler 1980 : Sociopath punk in trenchcoat stalking unsuspecting girls in a local park. Run as fast as you can and call 911.

Prowler 1988 : Satan wants some action. You try to dial 911, but get a call from 666 instead. You pick up, the Murray solo starts playing and literally shreds your phone to pieces.

 

[NickoWho]

This is such a great thread and i´m one of those who really just want to know every little thing about SiT .
The singer wanted to make an acoustic record, the fans objected to the synths and the onstage inflatables wouldn’t inflate. What the hell was going on with Iron Maiden’s Somewhere In Time?

However i would die just to hear that rehearsal version of ATG, but im not sure if they did record it. I assume they do record some rehearsal sessions ( prove me if im wrong ) so this might be recorded. But i do agree that this song will never be played live, just because it really is not meant to be played live.

@Luisma I really would buy your book.

Fun fact: The opening riff to Sea of Madness is the same opening riff to Pantera's Domination 4 years before.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I hear it too. SoM riff is a bit harder to play though. It has more of those legato "butter" notes.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a direct founder effect, Dime loved Maiden (all of them did/still do).

 

[srfc]

I never noticed that until you said it but definitely see the connection

 

[GhostofCain]

I never noticed that until you said it but definitely see the connection

Same here!

 

[Luisma]

Hey @NickoWho thanks for the support there!

I know they have been recording their rehearsals for a long time, but I honestly don't know if they already did that in 1986 (although it does make sense seeing they were experimenting a lot during that time).

On the other hand! VERY cool trivia fact about the opening in SOM!

 

[Luisma]

After a long time without posting here, I wanted to come back to this thread and ask if anyone has any reliable info (interviews) about the acoustic ideas/songs that Bruce presented during the SIT era? I know that most people claim that, for example, what we now know as Tears Of The Dragon was one of those ideas, however, I have never seen any piece of information that supports that claim, neither I have seen anything that talks about Bruce's songs that were developed from his ideas during 1986, so I will very much appreciate if anyone has any info regarding this.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

If this were 2006, I'd agree with you. Up until then, there was nothing particularly noticeable about SIT's representation in live setlists. But things changed with SBIT. Although the accompanying history DVD only covered Powerslave and Live After Death, the tour was clearly designed to highlight the entire mid-eighties period from Powerslave to SSOASS. The SIT Eddie was the one chosen for the branding, and SIT tracks were picked for the setlist... and that's where the imbalance comes in. There were four Powerslave songs, three SSOASS ones and only two from SIT. From my memory, I think this is what really started the legend of SIT being the forgotten classic album, and it really picked up when the Maiden England DVD and tour made things even worse.

Yes.

People were expecting and they were let down. I was among them.

The thing is we had Early Days 1 with setlist exclusive to the period. When "Early Days 2" got announced as SBiT nothing at all suggested it was not going to be the same. When the artwork was done it was clear it also includes "Live After Death" - so we might be looking at Early Days tracks in the setlist. This is where things went downhill for my expectations, as covering both live albums of the 80s and three records signalled that we might be looking into a mixed setlist of both - where SiT is represented with its 2 singles only. I don't remember if we knew the setlist before the first tour date, but seeing FOTD is included meant one thing only - they don't care about SiT representation in the setlist, as they've just then went outside the scope of the tour.

 

[CA Bryers]

After a long time without posting here, I wanted to come back to this thread and ask if anyone has any reliable info (interviews) about the acoustic ideas/songs that Bruce presented during the SIT era? I know that most people claim that, for example, what we now know as Tears Of The Dragon was one of those ideas, however, I have never seen any piece of information that supports that claim, neither I have seen anything that talks about Bruce's songs that were developed from his ideas during 1986, so I will very much appreciate if anyone has any info regarding this.

I wish I could remember where I read it--I skimmed the Official Maiden bio looking for it, but no luck there. Anyway, there was a quote I read once from Steve talking about the songs Bruce brought up for SiT. Paraphasing heavily I'm sure, but Steve basically said that in the end, Bruce likely came around to the idea that the songs he had in mind for SiT weren't all that good, seeing as none of it has made its way onto any of his solo albums.

 

[Luisma]

I wish I could remember where I read it--I skimmed the Official Maiden bio looking for it, but no luck there. Anyway, there was a quote I read once from Steve talking about the songs Bruce brought up for SiT. Paraphasing heavily I'm sure, but Steve basically said that in the end, Bruce likely came around to the idea that the songs he had in mind for SiT weren't all that good, seeing as none of it has made its way onto any of his solo albums.

I have been reading and reviewing some interviews Bruce gave around the time he released Tattooed Millionaire and Balls To Picasso but haven't found anything. I have even read that he did participate in a jam with a friend around 1987 but never came out from it, but no songs were mentioned either so I'm very interested in knowing if he ever said anything about the subject.

 

[CA Bryers]

I have been reading and reviewing some interviews Bruce gave around the time he released Tattooed Millionaire and Balls To Picasso but haven't found anything. I have even read that he did participate in a jam with a friend around 1987 but never came out from it, but no songs were mentioned either so I'm very interested in knowing if he ever said anything about the subject.

I used to pretty obsessively collect Maiden/Dickinson solo/Bayley solo interviews in magazines up until about the DoD era. I have about six or so scrapbooks that are full of them--read everything inside, and I've never come across any comment from Bruce linking what he offered for SiT to anything he did in his solo career, and Bruce was a lot more open and candid during those solo years than he was in either era of his Maiden stints.

I'll have to check the Maiden Voyage biography for that Steve quote...might be in there(?).

 

[Luisma]

I used to pretty obsessively collect Maiden/Dickinson solo/Bayley solo interviews in magazines up until about the DoD era. I have about six or so scrapbooks that are full of them--read everything inside, and I've never come across any comment from Bruce linking what he offered for SiT to anything he did in his solo career, and Bruce was a lot more open and candid during those solo years than he was in either era of his Maiden stints.

I'll have to check the Maiden Voyage biography for that Steve quote...might be in there(?).

Same here mate and couldn't find anything either. I already checked the Maiden Voyage and nothing there either

 

[CA Bryers]

Same here mate and couldn't find anything either. I already checked the Maiden Voyage and nothing there either

There is a part in Maiden Voyage that others who haven't read it might find interesting. I'll type out the excerpt of Bruce's account of things:

"All the songs I'd written sounded like Spanish folk music," Bruce told Hard Rock magazine in an interview in May 1986. "I remember playing my serenades to Steve. Everybody was in stitches! So there's only one song from me."

While the group rehearsed the material (sans Dickinson originals - that 'one song' was quietly also dropped)...

And then it goes on to talk about Bruce's interests moving toward fencing. So at the point of that interview, it sounds like the sting of Bruce's rejected offerings had worn off. Or he was putting on a happy face for the press. Also, while there were some folky oddballs in Bruce's solo stuff (mostly in B-Sides), I'd probably agree with that paraphrased Steve quote about nothing SiT related making it into his solo work.

 

[srfc]

I have never seen any piece of information that supports that claim, neither I have seen anything that talks about Bruce's songs that were developed from his ideas during 1986, so I will very much appreciate if anyone has any info regarding this.

I have definitely read that it was originally called "Pendragon's Tears", but I have no recollection where that was.

I also have read that Run Silent Run Deep was another idea from that time but again I can't remember where.

 

[srfc]

Paraphasing heavily I'm sure, but Steve basically said that in the end, Bruce likely came around to the idea that the songs he had in mind for SiT weren't all that good, seeing as none of it has made its way onto any of his solo albums.

I was going to post the same! I have a feeling that was in an official publication.

EDIT: Steve started off by saying that he wasn't opposed to the concept of acoustic tracks it's just they weren't good tracks.

 

[srfc]

I just did a google search for "pendragon's tears" most results are me saying it on this forum a few times

I did find this though if anyone speaks polish, it seems to be suggesting Arc of Space was another of the tracks albeit called Dreams of Space and Time.

"Przy okazji znalazłem, że Bruce próbował na SiT wcisnąć Tears of the Dragon i Arc of Space - wtedy Pendragon's Tears i Dreams of Space and Time, ale Steve odrzucił te pomysły, potem Dickinson chciał je na Fear of the Dark, ale Steve znów odrzucił, bo najbardziej podobało mu się Wasting Love, a nie było miejsca na tyle ballad. Jak wiadomo to też było przyczyną tego, że rok później mieliśmy przesłuchania na nowego wokalistę Maiden."

source: https://sanktuariumfc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=842523