The Genesis of Somewhere in Time

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srfc said:
I just did a google search for "pendragon's tears" most results are me saying it on this forum a few times :lol:

I did find this though if anyone speaks polish, it seems to be suggesting Arc of Space was another of the tracks albeit called Dreams of Space and Time.

"Przy okazji znalazłem, że Bruce próbował na SiT wcisnąć Tears of the Dragon i Arc of Space - wtedy Pendragon's Tears i Dreams of Space and Time, ale Steve odrzucił te pomysły, potem Dickinson chciał je na Fear of the Dark, ale Steve znów odrzucił, bo najbardziej podobało mu się Wasting Love, a nie było miejsca na tyle ballad. Jak wiadomo to też było przyczyną tego, że rok później mieliśmy przesłuchania na nowego wokalistę Maiden."

source: https://sanktuariumfc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=842523
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From google translate:
By the way, I found that Bruce tried to squeeze Tears of the Dragon and Arc of Space on SiT - then Pendragon's Tears and Dreams of Space and Time, but Steve rejected these ideas, then Dickinson wanted them on Fear of the Dark, but Steve rejected again. because he liked Wasting Love the most, and there was not enough room for ballads. As you know, it was also the reason that a year later we had auditions for the new vocalist, Maiden.
 
srfc said:
I also have read that Run Silent Run Deep was another idea from that time but again I can't remember where.
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The lyrics of RSRD (or at least part of them) were written by Bruce around the SIT era: click here and go to RSRD

Bruce: These are some words I wrote for the Somewhere In Time album. That particular song never made it but I kept the words, and when Steve came up with something, I said: 'You know what will fit brilliantly there - these words'. It's a song about submarines, actually the first song about submarines. 'Dive, Dive, Dive' came later.
 
Luisma said:
I have been reading and reviewing some interviews Bruce gave around the time he released Tattooed Millionaire and Balls To Picasso but haven't found anything. I have even read that he did participate in a jam with a friend around 1987 but never came out from it, but no songs were mentioned either so I'm very interested in knowing if he ever said anything about the subject.
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He did record some demos with Jimmy Bain at the end of the 1987 North American tour, but the style was more in the vein of Procol Harum. You can find the interview here:

 
Ha. I was wondering if he ever actually finished that book.
 
There it is clear as a bell, "just Tears of a Dragon" when asked if he'd offered any of the songs to Maiden. It doesn't necessarily mention the time it was offered though.
 
Perun said:
Ha. I was wondering if he ever actually finished that book.
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He did! He shared it with me years and years ago. I think you can find it in the web. I actually have tried to contact him to give him mine but so far I haven't got hold of him. He was always very helpful with me and we used to share tons of info in the early days.
 
srfc said:
There it is clear as a bell, "just Tears of a Dragon" when asked if he'd offered any of the songs to Maiden. It doesn't necessarily mention the time it was offered though.
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Finally someone who comes with some concrete documentation that can be discussed openly. Now, as you pretty well said, this interview doesn't give a concrete time frame to assure that Bruce had 'Tears' already in 86 as some people have said. Now, without any evidence (for now) to say this, I think that 'Tears' was formed closer to the FOTD period. After all, the song can be compared to Wasting Love which it was definitely a song that came from Bruce's mind with the help of Janick
 
Tears of the Dragon went through several versions in 3 years, then landed on the album, and then got played live all the time.
It is the absolutely, but absolutely without any contest the most recognizable Bruce track.

So if it got made in 1986, Bruce didn't touch it for 4-5 years. Then went apeshit about it and tried many versions until he got the one he likes, then it became staple of his career. That does not seem plausible to me.

He probably made the track in 1989/90, text and main chords, presented it to Maiden, who were on the "back to the denim and wall of Marshalls" mode at the time so it didn't click.
 
Luisma said:
After all, the song can be compared to Wasting Love which it was definitely a song that came from Bruce's mind with the help of Janick
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Man of Sorrows also originates from the same era and it's structurally very similar to Tears, so it sort of adds up to this as well.
Zare said:
So if it got made in 1986, Bruce didn't touch it for 4-5 years. Then went apeshit about it and tried many versions until he got the one he likes, then it became staple of his career. That does not seem plausible to me.

He probably made the track in 1989/90, text and main chords, presented it to Maiden, who were on the "back to the denim and wall of Marshalls" mode at the time so it didn't click.
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I'm with you on two this, but I'd say it's not totally unlikely that parts of the song, say, the opening or some basic melodies might very well originate from the Somewhere in Time writing sessions. Then again, as Bruce's style of composing (when doing it all or mostly himself anyway) is relatively simple/recognizable, it's a far reach... You know, it's more than likely that he brought up some Tears of The Dragon-Wasting Love-Out of the Shadows-etc. esque song ideas to the table during Somewhere in Time sessions, but it's totally different matter whether any of those song ideas eventually formed into Tears of the Dragon rather than Tears of the Dragon just being somewhat similar to stuff he originally wanted and intended for1986 Maiden album.
 
Zare said:
So if it got made in 1986, Bruce didn't touch it for 4-5 years. Then went apeshit about it and tried many versions until he got the one he likes, then it became staple of his career. That does not seem plausible to me.
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I don't know, I find it quite possible that after Steve's rejection, he would have indeed just not bothered working on the song any further because there was no chance it would be recorded and only returned to it when he left Maiden. If this were the case of course, one might expect it to have surfaced in some shape or form in the Tattooed Millionaire cycle, but maybe he just didn't feel like returning to it at that time for whatever reason.
 
I'm inclined to think "Pendragon's Day" was exactly that, a song about Pendragon, as it's hard to see how that title could have any connection to the lyrics we know. I would therefore be inclined to think it was the song from the SIT sessions

As such going by Zare's synopsis, "Bruce didn't touch it for 4-5 years. Then went apeshit about it", my feeling is the reason for him going apeshit, is as I've suggested earlier, he wanted to write a song about leaving Maiden and he picked the track rejected by Maiden to base it around.

There's no way the song Bruce offered to Steve could have had the lyrics we know :lol:
 
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srfc said:
I'm inclined to think "Pendragon's Day" was exactly that, a song about Pendragon, as it's hard to see how that title could have any connection to the lyrics we know. I would therefore be inclined to think it was the song from the SIT sessions
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If I'm not mistaken, Bruce's songs which he presented to the band during the SIT sessions were more acoustic oriented (TOTD fits that) and that's why they were rejected (as Steve said, they were good but not right for Maiden... at that moment). So maybe the song started in 1986 and went through numerous changes until 1994 (the song is talking about the departure of Bruce from Maiden). It's possible....

''Tears Of The Dragon'' is an amazing song and I think if Steve had heard it in 1986 (the 1994 version of it), he at least would have thought about it. But note that acoustic oriented song for Maiden in the 80's was not their thing and it would have been odd. Songs with acoustic parts in them started heavily since the reunion (and even with TXF and FOTD albums).
 
Actually what I remember reading was that Steve clearly said it wasn't a matter of direction, it was that Bruce's material simply wasn't good enough. Steve generally doesn't care about how a song might sound so much as whether it's a good song or not. I'm pretty sure that's what he's quoted as saying in the Run to the Hills official band biography.
 
This thread is full of reasons to put the narrative in Run to the Hills in question.
 
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Forostar said:
I wonder if people in this thread are implying that the "guitars and vocals recorded in Holland"-line of thought does not do justice to what really happened?

Do people out here believe everything was re(-re)corded in the Netherlands: meaning for all the things they changed, right? I mean, if they extended songs in Holland; naturally newly recorded drums and bass (synth) were going to be needed as well.

srfc: to address your question further, I guess for Maiden it is impossible to replace rhythm tracks, while keeping other music and vocals in that same segment. Could Birch intersect bass and drums for the midpiece in Heaven Can Wait ( A )? Perhaps he could. Perhaps Nicko and Steve re-recorded the whole song (as we know it now) in Nassau ( B ). I think A and B make more sense than doing all the recordings for (a) new piece(s) in a different place.

So, might the entire band have recorded new parts in Holland? If that is the case, how the hell do these connections flow so well? And how come the (especially) drum and bass sound stays the same so well? It really sounds as if all rhythm parts were recorded in Nassau and not in two different studios.

So, I imagine Steve and Nicko recorded more than what was used. First they selected songbatch A, then cut out Bruce's (co-)written song and then 'Arry and Nicko recorded some extra stuff (if that was not done earlier on; maybe they had it already before it was considered) to extend one or more songs. Then, guitars and vocals were added in another studio. I read the interviews and I do not see anything contradictional to what I say here, nor to the official biography.
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Still not that convinced there is something not correct in the biography on this matter. What would it be exactly?
 
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9th song with Dickinson credit being dropped - no trace of this in the book or in the post interviews.

Official version - Dickinson brings incompatible stuff, they turn it down, he's "relieved", without pressure gets into performing for the album.

What we know happened - he had a track on the album, but it got ditched. The album is pretty much forgotten in the future - the official statements lacking, history release covers the entire period in 10 mins, no new info. The least documented era of Iron Maiden, paradox because of absolute high point in the 1980s and a platinum band. Etc. There's more documentation about Virtual XI.

What we're presuming is that a lot of shit went down, and it's been "swept under the rug" by the band.
 
By the way, if anybody stumbles across this book and wonders it's worth reading:

Iron Maiden - Somewhere In Time : Anatomy of a Masterpiece (English Edition) eBook: Degiovanni, Mario: Amazon.de: Bücher

Iron Maiden - Somewhere In Time : Anatomy of a Masterpiece (English Edition) eBook: Degiovanni, Mario: Amazon.de: Bücher
www.amazon.de

It isn't. I got it and must say it was a waste of time and money. It's just a poorly written description of the album that contains no original or new information but just tries to tell us what we're hearing. Some of the information is inaccurate and the song descriptions provide no new aspects or layers that could help appreciate or analyse the songs in any way. There is more and better information freely available on the net, including the Iron Maiden Commentary.
 
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