THE CRUSADE OF EPICS: Results -> A Change Of Seasons wins!

JudasMyGuide said:
Home is a classic, because it comes from a classicky-classic album that's so classic it classics above all the other classics, classically classicking like a pro.

Why, Home is nice, but it's mostly a blues jam. A good one, but out of those "central" tracks on SFAM, I prefer Beyond This Life by a long shot. It's just that BTL has better riff, a more intriguing instrumental section (including the funny Zappaesque madness) and is in general catchier. And no "immersive soundtrack noises". And no "He's my brother // But I love her". (though with "Dreadful ending: Killer died!")

ITPOE is an actual prog epic, with build-ups, subdued sections with hypnotic atmospheric pulsations, catchy tickle-sections coming full circle, y'know... actuall progress. But sure, let's go with the metalhead choice.
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Iryo
 
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Results of Round 15:
Dream Theater - In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 2
Dream Theater - Home

Mastodon - The Czar (Nominated by @Night Prowler)
vs.
Yes - Awaken (Nominated by @Brigantium)
 
This Mastodon song is pretty coherent and has some cool riffs and proggy bits in it. It doesn’t go to a lot of different places over the course of the track, but it doesn’t feel like it drags, either. Not a fan of the vocals, but I’ve obviously heard much worse. Solidly good with some cooler parts.

Yes is one of those bands where every time I hear them I totally understand why other people love them, but I’ve never really been able to get into them myself. Part of it is Jon Anderson’s voice, which is too high and whiny for me, and part of it is the more masturbatory side of their prog rock approach, which can get a little too random for me at times. When they hew to more controlled Genesis-like territory I can dig it, though. This song definitely goes to a lot of different places over its runtime, and I like the pipe organ synth interludes and some of the other parts, but it’s not the sort of thing I’d really want to sit down and listen to. Though I totally get why someone else would.

Not really thrilled with either of these songs, but sorry @Brigantium, I would probably rather listen to @Night Prowler ’s nominee if forced to choose. Winner: Mastodon
 
Awaken (and the album it’s on) is pretty atypical Yes, it took me awhile to get into but once it clicked I could see why people rate it as one of Yes’ best songs. It has more ELP and Genesis flavors than what is typical for Yes, not sure how to put my finger on it but it doesn’t fit in the same box as Gates of Delirium or Close to the Edge. The pipe organ really stands out. Rick Wakeman performed it in an actual cathedral through a telephone line that was fed directly through the mixing board. Peak Yes.

Went with that as a pity vote initially, although so far it’s doing pretty well. I expect Mastodon to overtake it eventually, which is also a fantastic track.
 
I like the intro to the Mastodon song better than anything in the Yes song - and I'm a guy who loves prog. It's actually why I like Crack the Skye so much; despite the vocals not really being my thing (although I don't outright dislike them), it's proggy in its own right while never being self-indulgent. This song has somewhat of an ominous, haunting, Opethian quality - and at 4:07 it's straight up catchy. At 5:18 there's another cool riff, and the song never dips in quality from here. It's hard to nail down Mastodon to any particular genre, and that intrigues me. Crack the Skye, however, is the only album of theirs that has held my attention. It's been a long time since I've listened to the entire album, but I don't remember any weak points.

I mentioned self-indulgence, which is exactly what I hear in that Yes song. Now it may not be Jordan Rudess's Circus of Masturbating Space Monkeys (TM) that he launches into in a typical Dream Theater song, but what I hear is mostly a bunch of sections thrown together without much cohesion. The vocals are also definitely not my thing. Admittedly, I know little about Yes other than them being technically proficient musicians. I want to clarify that I don't straight up dislike this song, but this style has to be something that I'm in a very specific mood to listen to - and I'm not really ever in that mood nowadays.
 
I love Mastodon, and The Czar is one of their best songs. It's not as good as The Last Baron, but it still slays.

Yes is annoying the fuck out of me in all these games. I'm thinking of just excluding them from every game I host from now to eternity.

Jer said:
Part of it is Jon Anderson’s voice, which is too high and whiny for me, and part of it is the more masturbatory side of their prog rock approach, which can get a little too random for me at times.
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I agree with this. Whiny af voice.
 
These are both really interesting songs.

The Epica track presses a lot of buttons that I like — neoclassical elements, a little pomp, and some big choirs in multi-part harmony later on. There’s something a little bit off about the main female singer, though — she’s a little thin sounding, with a slightly strange accent. And then there’s all of the out-of-place extreme vocals, which really get in the way of the song, IMO. Something about all of this feels a little plastic and fake, but the high points of the song are undeniably great.

The Ocean’s song takes a more winding journey to its end, but with a more limited sonic palette. At times it sounds like “what if Linkin Park did prog metal?”, and at other times it’s much more atmospheric, but then it unfortunately gets a bit shouty at the end, too. I think this track feels a little more cohesive and authentic than the Epica song, and the shouty vocals aren’t as annoying as the extreme vocals of its competitor. That said, this song doesn’t quite achieve the same highs as the Epica track.

I could go either way here, and I’m fine with either one advancing; but sorry, @Black Wizard, I think @Night Prowler ‘s nominee has a slight edge here. Winner: The Ocean
 
These are certainly both incredibly epic.

The Ocean ticks more boxes for me, in the end. I appreciate the atmosphere, I appreciate the more meat-and-potatoes approach to the epic. I'm not in love with the vocal parts and I'd say the whole is a bit too melancholic for me, but I enjoyed listening to it and the production is really powerful.

I don't enjoy Simone Simons' voice beyond some duets with Kamelot and I don't particularly find most of Mark Jansen's songwriting to be very memorable. Nice pomp in this song, for sure, but nothing feels cohesive or catchy.
 
This was my first time listening to either song and I found both of them to be quite enjoyable. My opinion on which song I like better, and by how much, is very likely to change after subsequent listens, but as of this moment my preference leans towards The Ocean.
 
Both of these songs were quite good. I've always seen Epica as a second-rate Nightwish, and they've never done anything to convince me otherwise. But that doesn't mean they're bad, and this song is probably the best I've heard by them. However, the screaming vocals are out of place and just don't match the epic music behind them. I'm not crazy about Simone, but at least she blends with the music.

I had to investigate The Ocean to see what they were all about, and they have a neat concept about writing songs inspired by different pre-human periods. This song travels through many different places, and there was even a part that sounded kind of Toolish that I liked. Again, though, the screaming vocals are really out of place. I could hear classic Mikael Akerfeldt growls in there, since I'm assuming this song is about dinosaurs, but not the screaming. I just don't like it. Musically, this song is less predictable and more dynamic than the Epica one.

The part at 6:33 sounds like insects scurrying across the ground and up trees. Big insects. Like car-sized insects.

Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but why would a band write an entire album about the ancient world but throw the most interesting periods right at the beginning? I mean, the Cenozoic era? Mammals are sooooo boring. In the superior Mesozoic era, the Triassic was the most uneventful dinosaur period, as most of the cool dinosaurs were in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. I mean that could be an album right there. Triceratopses fighting T. rexes and stuff. I also listened to Triassic on YouTube, and it's every bit as good as Jurassic/Cretaceous (it has Egyptian stuff going on), but it's sadly also not immune from the screaming. While paleontologists don't know for certain, top experts believe that dinosaurs simply did not have that level of teenage angst.

I voted for The Ocean because dinosaurs. But also because it's just a more interesting song. The Epica track was solid, but did nothing that Nightwish hasn't done better.
 
Detective Beauregard said:
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but why would a band write an entire album about the ancient world but throw the most interesting periods right at the beginning?
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Actually, the middle, because it opens Part II of Phanerozoic. And also because like... it happened in that order lol.
 
Detective Beauregard said:
I've always seen Epica as a second-rate Nightwish, and they've never done anything to convince me otherwise.
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Surely you must be confusing Epica with Within Temptation there, mate. Sorry, but I just find it hilarious that someone who's able to write full paragraphs on single songs... no, single parts of songs when it's Opeth or Symph X is able do say this based on some really skin-deep similarities.

I don't mind first- and second-ratedness that much (although I personally find Epica to be lights ahead in musical proficiency and to be much less trivial in their composing (though not as catchy), which makes me wonder about this "second-ratedness" in general) but they are not even that similar.

This one annoys me just as much as you guys were annoyed by me comparing Symph X and Dream Theater - some general similarities do not make the bands alike. Draconian also have a female singer, but even if they used orchestra, that would not make them a Nightwish clone. Maiden might have even been inspired by Thin Lizzy and use the sweet guitar harmonies, but the bands are not much alike.

I'm not even a huge fan, it just annoys me, because there are many other bands that are actually annoyingly similar to Nightwish, but this here... like I said:
"Dude, Symph X are just a second-rate Dream Theater, and they've ever done anything to convince me otherwise. 'Cause, like, both bands have virtuoso guitarists, keyboardists and drummers, play long songs, are metal, have used polyrhythms and both reference some form of classical art in their name, but DT are, like, older, have better chops, catchier choruses and feel more professional in their self-presentation".
 
As for this round I'm going with Epica, because they shouldn't be losing this much. The Ocean song is pretty good, and I can imagine trying them out in general, though the "nu-metal element" that Jer mentioned isn't something I'd particularly appreciate. The atmosphere is very specific, I like the switches in dynamics and I can even imagine that repeated listens would make it well stuck in my head, though for me personally the 13 and a half minutes of this is maybe a tad too much. But still, thanks NP for the nomination, it was an intriguing experience.
 
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