The Beckett Connection

I would have thought telling the public in a forum first rather than taking this up with the band's management is a bad move? I mean, this smacks of mud-slinging rather than a claim to musical theft. And taking this long to realise doesn't help either..its not like the band can recall all those albums and alter the writing credits, the damage is already done in that respect.
I honestly don't know what you want to achieve by telling us other than to provoke a reaction.

I'm with the skeptics, the internet has made me far too suspicious otherwise.
 
I suspect SMX reacted like that because he can imagine the point of view of a songwriter, and knows the original songs quite well. To make that point of view ridiculous kinda called for a reaction.

I still haven't heard the song which Maiden have "used", according to some people. Would someone post a link in this topic?



DonnieDarko said:
The whole thing though, I have to admit, still seems to me, as Habberdasher said, like something that should be taken up with the band, management, lawyers, etc.,
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I can imagine that -besides putting the record straight- the artist wants to interest Maiden fans to check out that old stuff to compare.

DonnieDarko said:
. rather than in a forum like this.
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It's a Maiden fans forum, and we've seen some more controversial topics in the past.
 
Mr. Darko.  Without wishing to provide further proof of my pedantry, might I humbly suggest you re-read my initial missive.  If you can find even a hint of inference to the ‘aggrieved party’ in there, then I seriously hope you will point it out to me - as I took great pains to present my position accurately and I am certainly not agrieved.  I found your initial response most witty, but you definitely misinterpreted my intentions, and I can’t see how you managed to do that.  Hence, my vitriolic response.  Please accept my assurance that I hold I.M. in the highest regard; how could I not?  What Steve has achieved, since the days of his visits to our gigs at the Marquee, is nothing short of astonishing.  Watching Flight 666 last week, I was both enthralled and deeply envious; what I would give to have been part of that show doesn’t bear thinking about.  Humour-wise, pray continue - but don’t give up the day job.

N.B. to all: Rod was our tour manager.
Ardius said:
I would have thought telling the public in a forum first rather than taking this up with the band's management is a bad move? I mean, this smacks of mud-slinging rather than a claim to musical theft. And taking this long to realise doesn't help either..its not like the band can recall all those albums and alter the writing credits, the damage is already done in that respect.
I honestly don't know what you want to achieve by telling us other than to provoke a reaction.

I'm with the skeptics, the internet has made me far too suspicious otherwise.
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Guten Arbend Herr Ardius.  Let me state one last time: I was simply attempting to set the record straight in response to the multitude of queries and misinterpretations regarding the use of Beckett’s material.  This very forum contains several instances of said queries.  It was no more sinister than that.

N.B. to all: go to Beckett, Old Grey Whistle Test on Youtube to find all the relevant material.
 
Here's the thing.  If fisherenterprises is legitimately the Keith Fisher who was a former member of Beckett, then your post is indeed a valuable addition to the forum, and welcome.  (Plus, maybe he can tell us how to get copies of the rare LP!)  That said, I and apparently others are suspicious this is just someone having a laugh at our expense -- if for no other reason than anyone can claim to be anybody on the Internet and people have tried to prank this forum before. 
 
Thanks, mate, right at this second I'm playing it. I know it was posted before, but I never took the time to listen to it.

I recognize some sentences from Hallowed, but I have to read the complete lyrics to judge this better.

The Nomad's comparison I find very, very shocking. I mean, Maiden should better come out of the closet.
No wonder they never played it live.  ::)
 
Forostar said:
I recognize some sentences from Hallowed, but I have to read the complete lyrics to judge this better.
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Mark my words, my soul lives on
Please don't worry 'cause I have gone
I've gone beyond to see the truth

When your time is close at hand
Maybe then you'll understand
Life down there is just a strange illusion
 
This link is to the bio and photos of the "real" Keith Fisher who drummed for Beckett.  Any recent pictures to confirm that's you?

That said, given the profile of "fisherenterprises" on YouTube, this seems credible.  If it's a prank, it's a good one, possibly by a member of this forum... 
 
I'm tempted to think that Harris remembered the lyrics but didn't necessarily copy with intent


Hallowed be thy Name
Life's Shadow​

Mark my words believe my soul lives on               
Mark my words, my soul lives on​
Don't worry now that I have gone                   
Please don't worry 'cause I have gone​
I've gone beyond to seek the truth                 
I've gone beyond to see the truth​

When you know that your time is close at hand   
When your time is close at hand​
Maybe then you'll begin to understand
Maybe then you'll understand​
Life down here is just a strange illusion
Life down there is just a strange illusion​

None of the lines are exactly the same which makes me think he may have vaguely known the lyrics but not known in what form/exactly how they came. Or it's just so it fits the vocal melody better.
 
Hello Mr. Fisher,

in your first post you're speaking about Steve and Adrian coming to your gigs in 1974. Actually, if we take the official Maiden biography "Run To The Hills", Steve met Dave Murray in 1976, when he was summoned to audition for Maiden guitarist. Steve met Adrian sometime later, because Adrian is a friend of Dave's. Actually, again if we take biography as the reference, Steve didn't know any of the original Iron Maiden recording line-up from 1978/1979 before Maiden was conceived in 1975.

To clarify my post, i'm not accusing you of anything, events that you speak of were 35 years ago. It isn't relevant to the story about Beckett songs either...i just like to discuss Maiden related things and i'm really astonished that i can discuss them with one of their idols  :)

Regarding the plagiarism, your case is clear. Steve did use those lyrics and those melody lines.
I'm listening to Life's Shadow right now, and the instrumental part is copied note-for-note in The Nomad.

However, in Maiden's defense, not using your stuff wouldn't have changed their history and their status. 20% of the lyrics from the song from the album they made when they were already quite popular and touring worldwide, and a melody line from a quite forgotten Maiden song outside hardcore Maiden circles...

...never the less, again, your case is clear.

One more thing, copying authored stuff is really complicated. Here we have a case of direct copy of lyrics and melody lines. If Beckett took this to court, they'd won. However, Hallowed Be Thy Name itself isn't a copy of Life's Shadow. On the other hand, Dream Theater's song Regression copies Pink Floyd's Pigs On The Wing I, and no, Pink Floyd wouldn't win that court, because none of the lyrics and very few chords are the same. However, Dream Theater said, let's do a song just like POTW, both songs are openers to concept album, etc...
 
Zare said:
in your first post you're speaking about Steve and Adrian coming to your gigs in 1974. Actually, if we take the official Maiden biography "Run To The Hills", Steve met Dave Murray in 1976, when he was summoned to audition for Maiden guitarist. Steve met Adrian sometime later, because Adrian is a friend of Dave's. Actually, again if we take biography as the reference, Steve didn't know any of the original Iron Maiden recording line-up from 1978/1979 before Maiden was conceived in 1975.
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I don't recall Keith claiming Steve and Adrian were together. In fact, knowing Maiden's history, I assumed Keith meant that he met them separately. There was something in the other thread about how Adrian apparently discovered and became a fan of Beckett independently of Steve, before they met. (I don't know if it was mentioned in the thread, it may have been something that thread linked to, but I know there was something!)
 
Zare said:
One more thing, copying authored stuff is really complicated. Here we have a case of direct copy of lyrics and melody lines. If Beckett took this to court, they'd won. However, Hallowed Be Thy Name itself isn't a copy of Life's Shadow. On the other hand, Dream Theater's song Regression copies Pink Floyd's Pigs On The Wing I, and no, Pink Floyd wouldn't win that court, because none of the lyrics and very few chords are the same. However, Dream Theater said, let's do a song just like POTW, both songs are openers to concept album, etc...
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The "problem" is that Hallowed is over 7 minutes and that these lines are only a small part of it. Small in sense of time, but maybe not in sense of importance for the song. These lines have a lot of impact.

And I disagree somewhat with Jonszat:

This is 99% literal. The order of the words, the ending of the sentences, it's there, all of it.
Maybe Steve did it as a tribute. Beckett could be flattered, if Steve would have said that openly (and if someone got credit for it). But the case is different if Maiden keeps cloaking this all in silence. Hallowed is Maiden's most popular song, even. We're not talking about The Apparition, we're talking about Hallowed Be Thy Name, which is on The Number of the Beast, which went platinum in the USA (and might have been even more successful elsewhere).

For The Nomad, a credit would really be reasonable, e.g.:

The Nomad (Murray/Harris/Barton).
 
Upon the My-Oh-My!  I am overwhelmed!  I’ll take things, as ever, in order.
Am I really the Keith Fisher of the band Beckett?  Yes, some proof, I agree, would not come amiss.  Tricky one this.  I can’t, for the life of me, figure out how to accomplish that.  Anything I offer could have been downloaded with little difficulty.  Wait, I’ve got it: I have a website that was used for my bands (A year ago I was running and playing in three bands around Newcastle upon Tyne) www.strangefish.info; pick any of the three bands and use the ‘Contact’ to send me an email; I will then respond to that email here on this forum.  How’s that?
Regarding Adrian and Steve at The Marquee.  I received an email some time ago, regarding the death of Beckett’s original drummer (Alan Craig) who I replaced, from a fellow called Maurice Coyne, who told me that he and Adrian were often at Beckett gigs along with Steve (and the rest?), although they did not know each other then.  Beckett, of course, were unaware of their presence at the time.  Kenny discovered this history when he became involved with the band much later on.
Please don’t get me wrong: the fact that Steve used Beckett’s material simply cannot detract from his accomplishments one iota.  It seems I have stirred up some confused emotions with this issue, which was never my intention.  You are quite correct when you state that not using Beckett’s material would have made any difference to I.M.
The webmaster of the Urchin/Evil Ways website (Barry Considine) contacted me recently to get permission from Beckett to use his demo of Rainclouds on the website.  In the end, they decided against it, as the tape stock had deteriorated rather badly and they felt the quality was not up to scratch.  He tells me they are still in regular contact with Adrian.
I have to confess I was strangely thrilled, during the performance of Hallowed’ in the Flight 666 movie the other night, when I heard Bruce singing Bob’s lyrics.  I was with Bob when he was crafting that song (we used to share a house together back then) so it feels like a piece of personal history.  I didn’t realise that Hallowed was such a major event at their gigs.  They use a line from Rainbow’s Gold in there too.
 
Yes, Hallowed can be seen as the "climax" of a Maiden concert.

They have played it on every single gig since it was released in 1982. Only one other song was played more often, and that is Iron Maiden, the closing track from their same titled debut album. Every gig since its release (and also in the years before that).

Keith, if I may ask, which line of Rainbow's Gold resembles which line in Hallowed Be Thy Name?

Thanks in advance, for this info.
 
Hello again.  I forgot to respond to the request for the Beckett album.  Last year I spoke to Warner Music about a re-release; they were not interested.  A couple of independent record labels were interested however.  Unfortunately, the mixed-down master tapes have been lost (rather careless of Warners, what!?) and all I had to work with were the 32 track masters.  This would have involved an enormous amount of time and effort as the entire album would have had to have been remixed from scratch.  I gave up the idea; I was deeply pre-occupied with a family illness at that time; and also, because it would have cost me a lot of money in studio time to be able to deliver a mixed master to the record company, and I felt certain (still do) that I would never recoup my investment.  There is an illegal version available from the Second Harvest label that is selling quite well online; and as a lot of people had given it the thumb’s-up for quality I bought a copy myself and discovered it had been taken from the mixed master tape; so someone in Warners has been taking product out the back door I fear.  In all honesty, it makes no difference to me financially, so I don’t worry about it now I know it is good quality.


Keith, if I may ask, which line of Rainbow's Gold resembles which line in Hallowed Be Thy Name?


[/quote]

Hello again.  The line is: Catch my soul 'cause it's willing to fly away.
 
Thanks, that's very clear again. I realize I could have looked it up myself, but for some reason I was focused on a melody line instead of a lyric line.
 
Quite funny that Maiden decided to put out an official cover containing one of the lines they copied to another song.
 
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