Senjutsu charts position

jazz from hell

Ancient Mariner
And yes, there is an inherit distortion in analog recording. When you record to tape you'd get the levels within the sweet spot and then the tape compression would saturate things and make it sound sweeter. It's distortion, but a good type of distortion. Some use saturation plugins to achieve the same result nowadays.
Do you use any? Decapitator? Slate?
 
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Deleted member 7164

Guest
Well, for every piece of gear in analog you get a signal/noise ratio. By pushing the signal, you get more level, but also compression, saturation, distortion. It starts with the microphone, ends with the master tape. Every step on the way adds what I would call “natural distortion”, and some of it is very desirable, tube gear for example, even for classical music.

Yeah I know all that but it's weird way of saying that average snr of average analogue equipment piece in average studio yields imperfect results.
I see that discussion went further - yes the tape warmth is sought after even as an effect in fully digital chain.

But there's technology that has immense s:r far beyond the requirement, so trifold magnitude amplification possible, it's just not in music world. Long range radio and radars in pre-digital age f.e.

In any case I missed your moniker "analog" for "analog audio" as whole analog tech.
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
Maybe we can just accept that apart from the hardcore Maiden fans there is not much of an audience for 12 min songs.
No idea why Maiden isn't as popular as Drake but I assume people aren't choosing to buy Maiden and instead buying Drake due to not liking the song length.
I wouldn't be listening to Drake even if all his songs were the perfect length (whatever that is) and if Maiden's songs where the worst length possible (whatever that is).

I recently loaded up Drake's album on Youtube just to see what his music is. It's very, very different from rock music. Not my thing at all. I very much doubt he competes with Maiden for the same audience.
 
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Deleted member 7164

Guest
I recently loaded up Drake's album on Youtube just to see what his music is. It's very, very different from rock music. Not my thing at all. I very much doubt he competes with Maiden for the same audience.

I'll do the same now due to curiosity
 

jazz from hell

Ancient Mariner
Yeah I know all that but it's weird way of saying that average snr of average analogue equipment piece in average studio yields imperfect results.
I see that discussion went further - yes the tape warmth is sought after even as an effect in fully digital chain.

But there's technology that has immense s:r far beyond the requirement, so trifold magnitude amplification possible, it's just not in music world. Long range radio and radars in pre-digital age f.e.

In any case I missed your moniker "analog" for "analog audio" as whole analog tech.
I think snare and distortion belong together. Guitar and distortion anyway. Even vocals, take Hetfield on recent albums is mixed and/or recorded quite distorted, sounds so goood. Distortion is adding harmonics to fundamentals, as you know, that's why people consider "harmonic distortion". And mixers introduce this "harmonic distortion" to fit everything together, different gear coloring the signal with different kinds of distortion. If I get it right, Tchad Blake is one of the best mixers in the world, if not the best, and he's known for records with no reverb at all. But everything perfect sitting in fore and background, which he achieved with various degrees of -- wait for it -- distortion!
 
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Deleted member 7164

Guest
Well back before electric guitar's age there were trumpets, and those get pretty distorted too, natural wobbling of their 'acoustic shell' :)
When I had acoustic guitar before electric I made a hole in it and put a nail that's just a bit thinner than that hole. It would make noises and more hard you play more noise you get. I was into Nirvana back then...
 

jazz from hell

Ancient Mariner
I see, cool trick. Question is, when you start calling it distortion. I'm no physicist, but yeah, in the case of trumpets, they're built in a way, so their "natural" overtone series gets distorted. The reason being they want to play equal temperated system.

BTW What they do with church bells, in terms of "harmonic distortion", blew my mind. The bells are "tuned", meaning built, so that the 5th overtone, which is the *major* third (10th an octave lower), becomes close to a *minor* third. At least in my part of the world. (-: In other words, "naturally", when the * bell would begin to chime*, it would do so with a note that contains its major third upper harmonic. Which would not sound like a church bell at all anymore probably. But the form of the bell is specifically built so that its fundamental resonates with a *minor* 3rd harmonic, which gives the tone of the bell its seriousness. If you train your ears a bit, you can hear it. Quite clever, those old church hoshis.
 
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Courbet

Educated Fool
It should go without saying- Drake and Maiden have two FAR different demographics. Drake appeals to younger kids into pop / hip hop. It’s Top 40 stuff- maiden are decidedly not top 40.
I think it’s amazing that maiden charted at #3 with no radio play- like none.
Drake on the other hand is all over the top 40 stations.

Drake has more listeners but maiden has more fans. (that is intentionally condescending.)
 
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Deleted member 7164

Guest
I recently loaded up Drake's album on Youtube just to see what his music is. It's very, very different from rock music. Not my thing at all. I very much doubt he competes with Maiden for the same audience.

I sifted through 5-6 tracks in 10 minutes.

Indeed this is not compatible with rock music. It's not that good of a hip hop although he does seem to be a fine performer in the sense of vocal delivery. The songs are utter boredom tho.

Half of the stuff I heard are get-laid grooves anyway.

Maybe if actual pop had songs that weren't 4 chord abominations and were more on trail of ABBA or Michael Jackson's qualities this generic thing wouldn't be so high up.

Sonically, production seems on spot. If you want something against Maiden, OK, after listening to Senjutsu due to the CD2 thread, when I put this on YT it made me realize I have a really good pair of speakers.

In the end it's just pop stuff. Drake is in different world, I don't think the fall of sales for Senjutsu got anything to do with 'competition'. Drake #1 in UK is a consequence of Senjutsu not selling optimally, not the cause...
 
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Deleted member 7164

Guest
I see, cool trick. Question is, when you start calling it distortion. I'm no physicist, but yeah, in the case of trumpets, they're built in a way, so their "natural" overtone series gets distorted. The reason being they want to play equal temperated system.

BTW What they do with church bells, in terms of "harmonic distortion", blew my mind. The bells are "tuned", meaning built, so that the 5th overtone, which is the *major* third (10th an octave lower), becomes close to a *minor* third. At least in my part of the world. (-: In other words, "naturally", when the * bell would begin to chime*, it would do so with a note that contains its major third upper harmonic. Which would not sound like a church bell at all anymore probably. But the form of the bell is specifically built so that its fundamental resonates with a *minor* 3rd harmonic, which gives the tone of the bell its seriousness. If you train your ears a bit, you can hear it. Quite clever, those old church hoshis.

Cool info about those bells, didn't know that but I know 'masters' build them and that means a lot put in the context of time.
If they managed to generate a different note from a harmonic I believe they had to have another source of harmonics present and the sound is the product of them all. If base of the bell resonates below 20Hz then base signal wouldn't be audible but it does have higher harmonics - ringing the note that's dissonant but not audible for humans, while you utilize its harmonics for the texture?

Well in case of harmonic distortion, it always exists. Whether one can detect it is a matter of equipment :).

Distortion as a term I believe is subject to context. It can be also written as harmonic noise*. So distortion may be defined as base signal to harmonic noise ratio.

*getting rid of it was a big thing for earliest DC electric motors because of their negative impacts on the overall electric field. It can be simplified to something like harmonics being useless for driving the shaft.
 

R@inmaker

Educated Fool
No idea why Maiden isn't as popular as Drake but I assume people aren't choosing to buy Maiden and instead buying Drake due to not liking the song length.
I wouldn't be listening to Drake even if all his songs were the perfect length (whatever that is) and if Maiden's songs where the worst length possible (whatever that is).

I recently loaded up Drake's album on Youtube just to see what his music is. It's very, very different from rock music. Not my thing at all. I very much doubt he competes with Maiden for the same audience.
you can't seriously be comparing the market for Drake and Maiden as the same market....they aren't even the same universe those crowds. i seriously don't even understand why anyone is paying attention to charts these days. they mean nothing except for box office at shows. THAT is the barometer of success these days. 80% of artists' income is from shows. Maiden will outsell 98% of all other acts any time they hit the road. comparing Drake to Maiden is not only stupid (not you, in general i mean!) but pointless. Maiden is to be compared to Metallica, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, Bon Jovi, etc. Drake can go straight to hell in the conversation lol
 

MindlessPieces

Educated Fool
you can't seriously be comparing the market for Drake and Maiden as the same market....they aren't even the same universe those crowds. i seriously don't even understand why anyone is paying attention to charts these days. they mean nothing except for box office at shows. THAT is the barometer of success these days. 80% of artists' income is from shows. Maiden will outsell 98% of all other acts any time they hit the road. comparing Drake to Maiden is not only stupid (not you, in general i mean!) but pointless. Maiden is to be compared to Metallica, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, Bon Jovi, etc. Drake can go straight to hell in the conversation lol
I wouldn't put Maiden in with the likes of Springsteen, Elton John or Bon Jovi.

There is a real negative perception that people have of Heavy Metal. Those same people wouldn't have any negative perception of Springsteen, Elton John or Bon Jovi.

Maiden is more in the likes of Metallica, Black Sabb, Judas Priest, Helloween, Nightwish etc There would be a lot of crossover there. Most people that listen to Elton John won't give Maiden the time of day.
 

R@inmaker

Educated Fool
I'm talking about box office attraction. Maiden averages prob 15-25k per show, right? nobody but Metallica on your list does that kind of business on the road. their competition in terms of gate attendance is much greater than even the heavyweights of metal/hard rock. only Metallica and AC/DC compare. i won't include GnR bc they tour too infrequently. Maiden's competition in touring revenue is almost entirely within the pop heavyweights.
 

Spaldy

Ancient Mariner
I'm genuinely surprised at how many here haven't even heard of Drake considering he's been the biggest pop star in the world for the past 5 years or more.

But to echo some of those above, Maiden failing to beat him in the charts as a sign of their diminishing popularity is frankly ridiculous. Chart positioning has never been a priority for the band, not even in the 80's nor a sign of how big they were. None of their 80's album made the top 10 in the US but they still embarked on sold-out arena tours.

When Maiden hit the road they are consistently one of the top 20 touring acts that year. That's always where their strength has been and to claim it's all over because they only made it to #3 in the states (highest ever positioning) is simply doom mongering.

I edited my post to change top 10 to top 20 touring acts as according to Wikipedia, Maiden haven't been in the top 10 of touring acts.
 
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