Senjutsu - 3rd September 2021

GhostofCain said:
Nothing can be worse than The Angel and the Gambler! :lol:

I do not think The Parchment is that bad, far from it. Sure, it is a bloated and repetitive Harris track, but it has some hypnotic bits and the solos are quite good. It would have probably been better as a 5-minute instrumental song though.
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I didnt think so either but id rather have TAATG. Maybe edit it might be slightly better.
 
Christopher Baines said:
Ok so i tried The Parchement again with an open mind and ear. Its worst than i first described. It blows my mind how many people like it. Its so boring. Chucking riffs with bland guitar solos. Honestly guys id rather listen The angel and the gambler than this tripe. I never vent this strong but just dont get it .
Rest of the album is solid though lol
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You sound a lot like me during the first week of this albums release, except that I would never speak ill of TAATG.

If you want to learn to enjoy it, what worked for me was listening to it a lot, but whilst I was doing other things. Active listening bored me until I'd absorbed the subtleties as the "obvious" hooks weren't there.

Or just live with not liking it, I guess. You don't need to like every Maiden song and there's a definitely a host of fan favourites I just don't "get".
 
Christopher Baines said:
Ok so i tried The Parchement again with an open mind and ear. Its worst than i first described. It blows my mind how many people like it. Its so boring. Chucking riffs with bland guitar solos. Honestly guys id rather listen The angel and the gambler than this tripe. I never vent this strong but just dont get it .
Rest of the album is solid enough but after 5 months now nothing really makes wanna go back to this album too often apart from the title track and maybe Hell On Earth. Its ok but not great. I hope its not their last album as a band with Maidens quality deserve to go out on a higher note than this
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You are objectively wrong. God told me in person. The Parchment is in the top 10 Steve Harris songs ever. Period. Dave's solo is also one his best ever. Adrian's are really cool as always, and Janick's are spot on. This is like a funeral procession. Which is why some don't get it. But they are wrong. You are wrong. You're all wrong. Honestly. I foresee that in the future, this track will be in your top 10 favourite tracks.

ps: aside from the silliness, if you are one of those people who indulge in marijuana ("ladies and gentlemen"), like Queen Victoria did, listen to it while stoned. If you don't indulge in such awful habits, never mind.
 
DJMayes said:
You sound a lot like me during the first week of this albums release, except that I would never speak ill of TAATG.

If you want to learn to enjoy it, what worked for me was listening to it a lot, but whilst I was doing other things. Active listening bored me until I'd absorbed the subtleties as the "obvious" hooks weren't there.

Or just live with not liking it, I guess. You don't need to like every Maiden song and there's a definitely a host of fan favourites I just don't "get".
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Ooh name some. Love a healthy song debate lol
 
Christopher Baines said:
Ok so i tried The Parchement again with an open mind and ear. Its worst than i first described. It blows my mind how many people like it. Its so boring. Chucking riffs with bland guitar solos. Honestly guys id rather listen The angel and the gambler than this tripe. I never vent this strong but just dont get it .
Rest of the album is solid enough but after 5 months now nothing really makes wanna go back to this album too often apart from the title track and maybe Hell On Earth. Its ok but not great. I hope its not their last album as a band with Maidens quality deserve to go out on a higher note than this
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If this is their swansong(and I certainly hope it’s not) I’d be fine with it. Senjutsu is my favorite reunion album.
 
GhostofCain said:
Nothing can be worse than The Angel and the Gambler! :lol:

I do not think The Parchment is that bad, far from it. Sure, it is a bloated and repetitive Harris track, but it has some hypnotic bits and the solos are quite good. It would have probably been better as a 5-minute instrumental song though.
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I get ye about the Harris bloaty caper but I almost think its necessary for the pay off. Aside from The Parchment, TRATB and Book of Souls come to mind. I could do without half of the chuggy verses and over wrought lyrics but then the instrumental pay off in TRATB and TBOS are two of the finest things I've ever seen Maiden do live. The end of TBOS in particular is an all time live, in person highlight for me. And so I wonder would it have the same hit if the song was only 5mins long. If one isn't hooked and/or bored by the verses then one doesn't feel the release when the song actually gets proper good.
Where Eagles Dare springs to mind. Shorter than the others, chuggy but much more dynamic verses, great instrumental but it doesn't have that release. It constantly sits at a level above the other 3 songs mentioned, lets say 8/10 for reference whereas the others chug at say 6/10 but then soar to 9 or 10/10.*
Im not tryin convince anyone to like Steves ways but he clearly likes writing these type of songs, I think he simply adores creating these spectacular releases in a live setting.

*numbers objectively correct and not open to debate.
 
Niall Kielt said:
I get ye about the Harris bloaty caper but I almost think its necessary for the pay off. Aside from The Parchment, TRATB and Book of Souls come to mind. I could do without half of the chuggy verses and over wrought lyrics but then the instrumental pay off in TRATB and TBOS are two of the finest things I've ever seen Maiden do live. The end of TBOS in particular is an all time live, in person highlight for me. And so I wonder would it have the same hit if the song was only 5mins long. If one isn't hooked and/or bored by the verses then one doesn't feel the release when the song actually gets proper good.
Where Eagles Dare springs to mind. Shorter than the others, chuggy but much more dynamic verses, great instrumental but it doesn't have that release. It constantly sits at a level above the other 3 songs mentioned, lets say 8/10 for reference whereas the others chug at say 6/10 but then soar to 9 or 10/10.*
Im not tryin convince anyone to like Steves ways but he clearly likes writing these type of songs, I think he simply adores creating these spectacular releases in a live setting.
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Here is my opinion:

If a part/parts of a song is great, then why not repeat it a bit more? I'm in for that (not at the level of TAATG, ofc). The repetition in The Parchment is needed, because you have to keep this mesmerizing vibe of the whole song, while in TRATB you can cut some of the instrumental section and the song still will be great, but why do it, the whole section is gold.

Edit: I forgot to add that it's necessary to repeat some of the parts in a long song, not only the great ones (certain part in Hell On Earth can't relate to that, sadly). All those quiet intros and long instrumental sections are improtant for the story/lyrics, the build up and the overall mood of the songs.

And yeah, I think Steve loves to create songs that will be awesome live.
harrisdevot said:
I would add that it's scientifically proven that Steve Harris is the greatest Metal songwriter ever.
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^ There is no doubt about that.
 
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I've never understood this obession with repetition. Have you ever heard Beethoven's 5th Symphony, especially the 1st movement? This is repetition of a rather simple motif. But it works, because the motif is constantly renewed by its context. I won't compare Harris to Beethoven, but this is how things work in Lost in a Lost World for example: in the instrumental section, a motif is reoccuring 3 times. That's a lot, but the neighbouring motives change, which creates a whole new dynamics. I'm much more bothered by the repetition of the chorus in Days of Future Past.
 
harrisdevot said:
I've never understood this obession with repetition. Have you ever heard Beethoven's 5th Symphony, especially the 1st movement? This is repetition of a rather simple motif. But it works, because the motif is constantly renewed by its context. I won't compare Harris to Beethoven, but this is how things work in Lost in a Lost World for example: in the instrumental section, a motif is reoccuring 3 times. That's a lot, but the neighbouring motives change, which creates a whole new dynamics. I'm much more bothered by the repetition of the chorus in Days of Future Past.
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Kids these days have attention deficit disorder.
 
harrisdevot said:
I've never understood this obession with repetition. Have you ever heard Beethoven's 5th Symphony, especially the 1st movement? This is repetition of a rather simple motif. But it works, because the motif is constantly renewed by its context. I won't compare Harris to Beethoven, but this is how things work in Lost in a Lost World for example: in the instrumental section, a motif is reoccuring 3 times. That's a lot, but the neighbouring motives change, which creates a whole new dynamics. I'm much more bothered by the repetition of the chorus in Days of Future Past.
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You've hit the nail on the head when you say "it works." These issues only come up if someone doesn't totally enjoy the song.
Like Kalata says, if its good Im like "play it again!"
 
Niall Kielt said:
Ok, boomer. (Did i do it right? Ive only ever seen it used on here)

Kids these days dont tolerate turgid, repetitive garbage, baby!

Maybe you old geezers are more tolerant cos you forget what just happened and it all seems fresh.

Oh, and :ninja: for all of the above but I'm sure you knew that.
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Not having a go at you per se Niall, since you explicitly mention in your post that the build up in songs is to lead to a pay off, so obviously you understand what's being attempted by Steve you just think he hasn't succeeded.

My post was more a facetious jibe at some of the comments on here ( and elsewhere) that seem to miss the point of all manner of things regarding the build up of songs, the matching of the mood of sections to what is happening in the narrative of the lyrics and things like that.

Not sure why I brought age into it, that was out of order, and not accurate.
 
srfc said:
Not having a go at you per se Niall, since you explicitly mention in your post that the build up in songs is to lead to a pay off, so obviously you understand what's being attempted by Steve you just think he hasn't succeeded.

My post was more a facetious jibe at some of the comments on here ( and elsewhere) that seem to miss the point of all manner of things regarding the build up of songs, the matching of the mood of sections to what is happening in the narrative of the lyrics and things like that.

Not sure why I brought age into it, that was out of order, and not accurate.
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I think we're the same age ish anyway :D
 
I'm 42, I think you're a bit younger than that. not young enough to be up on a high horse though!
 
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