Russia invades Ukraine

Anyway, all that aside, there is a tiny little concern about the Leopard 2 tanks, and that's that they have never been used in an open field war before. They might be overhyped, and it may have a demoralising effect once the first one is destroyed in battle, which one way or the other is inevitable.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be delivered to Ukraine, I'm saying they're not the second coming of Jesus and they will not end the war on their first day on the battlefield. However, I get the impression that this is what a lot of people believe (example).
 
Perun said:
It is literally the exact opposite of what you said.
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It is logic continuation. I mean, what Germany will do, if their demands will be satisfied by USA.
Germany without any problems can send 10-50 tanks. Along other countries that also have Leopards it would be a good addition.
LooseCannon said:
To be fair to Azas, contractually, countries with Leopard 2 tanks cannot transfer them to other countries without the approval of Germany. IE, Canada cannot send their Leopards to Ukraine, South Africa, or East Timor without the approval of the German government.
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I know that. It is possible that countries may send tanks without permission. Other option: Germany will approve this. I think Germany will approve this option.

Perun said:
I'm saying they're not the second coming of Jesus and they will not end the war on their first day on the battlefield. However, I get the impression that this is what a lot of people believe (example).
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Tanks are essential for counteroffensive, you know.
 
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Travis The Dragon said:
As U.S. and allies arm Ukraine, Russia warns that losing a conventional war "can trigger a nuclear war"
www.cbsnews.com

As U.S. and allies arm Ukraine, Russia warns that losing a conventional war "can trigger a nuclear war"

The Kremlin and its allies have long tried to paint Vladimir Putin's assault on his neighbors as an existential war, and they want the world to believe they mean it.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
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This has been my worry all along. If they lose this war Russia isnt going to go and sit quietly in a corner.
 
Right, so Scholz won't budge on the Leopards despite the fact that the majority of the German population, the majority of the German parliament, his entire cabinet and Germany's international allies are in favour of the deliveries and pressing him to allow them. He has not explained himself coherently.

Such a situation should normally call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. The fact that the two parties on the extreme wings are not pushing for such, despite the fact that they are usually as trigger happy as can be, is damning - it's an open secret that both are in the Kremlin's pocket. Scholz' motives deserve deep mistrust. I don't pretend to know what they are, but I'm not ruling out some personal associations with Russia, because there are reasons to assume them.

What I hate so much about this situation however is the looming threat that if Scholz lost a vote of no confidence, this would likely end in a chancellorship of Friedrich Merz, the opposition leader - and literally the only good thing this guy would do would be to permit tanks being sent to Ukraine. Otherwise he would be a disaster for the country and the continent, think the 2010 Euro crisis factored by ten. I don't think there's any other mainstream politician in the EU with the kind of potential to divide the union as Merz, not because he is anti-EU, but because his Neo-Liberal religion places the weaker member states at a disadvantage which will ultimately drive them into Russia's (or eventually China's) arms.

It seems that either way, Putin is succeeding in dividing Europe.
 
Imo, there's definitely some truth, that elites of Germany has deep ties with russia.
Merkel.jpg
 
A lot of Germans grew up in East Germany. A lot of Poles grew up in a Soviet puppet state too, but they seem to be against Russia.
 
What if Germany's Bundeswehr is long ago incapable/destroyed by Merkel? Civil society should seek for answers.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1616823743350820864

update: Scholz (he was so curly long haired) in his young days was pro moskow?
From Wiki: "He supported the Freudenberger Kreis, the Marxist wing of the Juso university groups, promoting "overcoming the capitalist economy" in articles.[9] In it, Scholz criticized the "aggressive-imperialist NATO", the Federal Republic as the "European stronghold of big business" and the social-liberal coalition, which puts the "bare maintenance of power above any form of substantive dispute."
 
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What is remarkable is that with the exception of Orban's Hungary, all NATO countries are in favour of donating Leopard tanks. Except Germany. Where, as Perun says, the majority are also in favour of it ...
 
Finished with my woman 'cause
She couldn't help me with my mind
People think I'm insane because
I am frowning all the time...
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No, I am just raising questions. In current situation Germany's inaction is very costly.
 
Polish PM:
“If the German Defense Minister claims that Germany isn’t blocking the Leopards, I would like him to issue a statement saying that they will allow Poland to send the Leopards & that they themselves will join the coalition sending tanks.”

“Germany’s positions is unacceptable. Nearly a year has passed since the war started. Innocents die every day. Cities are bombed (…) What else needs to happen for Germany to see things clearly & start living up to their giant potential”?

“Poland won’t passively watch Ukraine bleed to death. If Germany won’t agree on sending Leopards, we will build a "smaller coalition" of countries ready to donate some of their modern tanks to Ukraine.”

"It is now up to Germany whether they want to join the mission and stop Russian barbarism, or choose to watch silently and go down in history as those who were on the wrong side".
 
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Suddeutsche Zeitung reports the White House got into a major argument with Germany on the day before the Ramstein meeting over Germany’s refusal to release the Leopards Defense Secretary Austin & National Security Advisor Sullivan were involved in shouting-matches with Ploettner.
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Another aspect of Germany's inaction: An interesting aspect of Scholz’ antics is what it will do to Germany’s arms industry.
"The reckoning comes: Finnish expert says: "Finland must consider extremely carefully the extent to which it should continue to purchase defense materials from Germany." "Finland cannot take the risk [to] be tied to a country that humbles itself in front of the enemy."
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There's new word to describe indecisiveness. Stop scholzing around!
 
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Perun said:
You're paranoid, @Azas.
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1. "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."
2. You might see things in a way that might be called paranoid too if you grew up in the USSR or one of its satellite states.
3. Never underestimate russia's will and power to corrupt.
 
I guess they are rattled by Lavrov's latest comment, that the west is on the brink of an all-out war with Russia, rather than "proxy war". If so, then Lavrov has been successful in what he set out to do.
 
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