Boroking
In the mire of an ancient swamp
The 20th century is littered with examples of why nationalism is a bad idea and yet it still finds its fans
Russia invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Perun
- Start date
The 20th century is littered with examples of why nationalism is a bad idea and yet it still finds its fans
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Hear, hear! As far as I am concerned, you can add religion too.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
I dunno, in Norway those who were most vocal during the 2015 refugee crisis haven't said a word now.
Trying to use Ukrainian refugees for promotion of a xenophobic agenda will not work in Europe any time soon. In 2015, the refugees came from Muslim countries and that was just what those you mention needed to fuel their respective fires.
As for the phone calls describing torture. I will not listen to them. Stuff like that brings out feelings in me that I haven't felt since the 2011 terrorist acts in Norway and I won't revisit that corner of my mind voluntarily. Anger, hatred, desire to see people suffer just like their victims.
MindRuler
Ancient Mariner
Mix them both with extremism and you´ll get a dangerous cocktail...
jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
Geographically and also in mentality, Ukraine is closer to us; Norway is a neighbor of Russia, so this aspect even more pronounced. The situation might be a bit different in France... but I hope you're right!
I suspect it's a misguided psychological response. Have humans ever genuinely evolved as a species to live harmoniously in anything outside of a small tribal group of family/close kin, or do we just kind of go along with it?
First we had to live in bigger town/city communities where each person struggles to find a validating identity and role, then it became regions and nations/states, then artificial constructions of bigger states, and now mass media and globalisation has made individuals an insignificant tiny dot among millions of other tiny dots. People crave identity and validation, and instead of trying to do it on a smaller scale among their peer group, look for validation as part of a large extended tribe. That might mean pretending to be the Englishest of stereotypically English people, or wearing the same band shirt as everyone else.
tl;dr - it's all bollocks
Boroking
In the mire of an ancient swamp
I suspect it's a misguided psychological response. Have humans ever genuinely evolved as a species to live harmoniously in anything outside of a small tribal group of family/close kin, or do we just kind of go along with it?
First we had to live in bigger town/city communities where each person struggles to find a validating identity and role, then it became regions and nations/states, then artificial constructions of bigger states, and now mass media and globalisation has made individuals an insignificant tiny dot among millions of other tiny dots. People crave identity and validation, and instead of trying to do it on a smaller scale among their peer group, look for validation as part of a large extended tribe. That might mean pretending to be the Englishest of stereotypically English people, or wearing the same band shirt as everyone else.
tl;dr - it's all bollocks
It’s all tribalism of one note or another, strongest amongst those who are afraid of individuality.
Thing is, I think individuality as trumpeted by modern society isn't all that attainable. People like to think they're super unique, then not surprisingly run into someone else in their wider social group who fulfils a similar social role or peer group need to themselves - or does it better - and clashes with them. Badly. Because they lose their 'individual' sense of identity.
Realistically, to fit in with modern type society, you have to accept both your individual characteristics and your boring, unexceptional similarity to many of those other tiny dots, and potentially come to terms with a certain amount of feeling insignificant. The only good answer is to work on being more secure in your own skin, and find a niche that works among your immediate circle of friends, family and colleagues.
Thinking you're extra special can be as hostile as joining a mob that bolsters the identity of its members by ostracising others.
Realistically, to fit in with modern type society, you have to accept both your individual characteristics and your boring, unexceptional similarity to many of those other tiny dots, and potentially come to terms with a certain amount of feeling insignificant. The only good answer is to work on being more secure in your own skin, and find a niche that works among your immediate circle of friends, family and colleagues.
Thinking you're extra special can be as hostile as joining a mob that bolsters the identity of its members by ostracising others.
Boroking
In the mire of an ancient swamp
I don’t really see individuality as tied to any sense of uniqueness. No one is really that unique, unless they can fly or breath underwater, that’d be acceptable. Otherwise we are much the same flavour of human. I see individuality just as those who march to their own drum beat, whether that be in a big splashy, showy way or not. People who have an inflated sense of their own uniqueness tend to be rather dull. Noisy but dull.
I agree with finding that sense of insignificantness as a way of finding a place within society. Accepting how unimportant we as individuals are feels very healthy to me.
The current state of evidence for the perpetrators of the Bucha massacre:
www.reuters.com
Love letter, ID card point to Russian units that terrorised Bucha
Eyewitness testimony, discarded documents and social media posts point to the Russian soldiers and chain of command in the bloody occupation of the Ukrainian city of Bucha
Magnus
Pica Serdica
STROEVA О ВОЙНЕ Украины и России
Парад детсадовских войск. Их прямо с детства приучают, что им предстоит сгореть в танке. А вы говорите- что скажут русские матери на гробы с сыновьями. Да ничего не скажут, они их для гробов и растят. @mstroeva
t.me
jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
Ukraine's head of military intelligence says the war with Russia is going so well, that it will reach a turning point by mid-August and be over by the end of the year. He correctly predicted when Russia would invade earlier this year. He also said a coup to remove Vladimir Putin is already under way in Russia and the Russian leader is seriously ill with cancer.
news.sky.com
Ukraine war: Military intelligence chief 'optimistic' of Russian defeat saying war 'will be over by end of year'
Major General Kyrylo Budanov spoke exclusively to Sky News and predicted the war will reach a turning point in August. He correctly predicted when Russia would invade earlier this year.
news.sky.com
Azas
Hermit at the End of the Universe
Have You noticed how actions 'to save Putins face' intensified in the west. Macron and somewhat Germany is proactive on this front. Such a loosers. Behind the curtains russian diplomats are trying to find a way from complete invasion fiasco. Crucial time to continue to help Ukraine with heavy weaponry. Only total victory is accepted, without any compromises. Only then Putin's regime will be critically weakened and will fall.
Gary Kasparov is good at knowing how to deal with russian mob. (please, read the full conversation on Twitter)
Gary Kasparov is good at knowing how to deal with russian mob. (please, read the full conversation on Twitter)
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jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
I can understand your point, but I completely agree with Macron when he said that there's no peace through humiliation. As many commenters wrote, look at the difference between WW1, after which Germany felt totally humiliated, and after WW2, when the allies helped to rebuild the country.
Azas
Hermit at the End of the Universe
Huh ...and many people still don't understand that Putin can't be appeased. If you play nice, he will perceive you as the weak. He will chase his imperial dreams furthermore. You can't deal with the monster. The monster will eat you, sooner or later.
Don't think of Putin in democratic paradigm. He's corrupt authoritarian dictator. He - like the famous ring - must be destroyed. In fact, problem is all today's russia. Many of it's people supports imperial dreams. And yet, many of the westerners, want to play nice with this corrupt and decaying country. It's so disgusting.
The problem is that there is no defeating Putin in some grand fashion. NATO doesn't have the capacity to remove him without nuclear war, and it goes without saying that there's no intention nor desire to do that. If Putin goes it will be because the war in Ukraine and the associated financial sanctions have made powerbrokers within the country move to get rid of him, but that'll still be the choice of Russians.
Huh ...and many people still don't understand that Putin can't be appeased. If you play nice, he will perceive you as the weak. He will chase his imperial dreams furthermore. You can't deal with the monster. The monster will eat you, sooner or later.
Don't think of Putin in democratic paradigm. He's corrupt authoritarian dictator. He - like the famous ring - must be destroyed. In fact, problem is all today's russia. Many of it's people supports imperial dreams. And yet, many of the westerners, want to play nice with this corrupt and decaying country. It's so disgusting.
It's highly unlikely that Ukraine will retake Crimea during this war, and if admitting that is the only price to pay for ending the war while maintaining national self-determination for other issues, then it might be worth doing. It's unlikely that it would be the only concession, certainly, but it is worth noting that Crimea was one of the most pro-Russian areas of the country in the pre-2014 era.
Azas
Hermit at the End of the Universe
I respect your opinion, but... you already try to 'play it nice'. In your position one can sense some sort of surrender to Putin's will.
"If Putin goes it will be because the war in Ukraine and the associated financial sanctions have made powerbrokers within the country move to get rid of him, but that'll still be the choice of Russians."
So, in order to "Putin to go" heavy weapon flow into Ukraine must be maximized already. How Germany acts, regarding this aspect? Hesitantly in my opinion. Bla bla bla, and delaying. The West now has a chance to win, but ALREADY you can hear voices to 'save Putin's face'. Putin's regime will fall sooner if Ukraine's victory will be undoubted and obvious. And, Putin will not use nuclear arms, forget it. USA said to him already :'we will respond accordingly, and will attack You personally first and foremost. We know, where Your bunker is.'
On May 9th parade Putin's speach was very modest, regarding nuclear war.
The biggest problem now is: how quick and in which quantities Ukraine will receive heavy weapons from the West. Ukrainians have the will and moral strength to fight. All they need is offensive weapons. But russian diplomatic bribery begin to work behind the curtains to slow the process down.
"If Putin goes it will be because the war in Ukraine and the associated financial sanctions have made powerbrokers within the country move to get rid of him, but that'll still be the choice of Russians."
So, in order to "Putin to go" heavy weapon flow into Ukraine must be maximized already. How Germany acts, regarding this aspect? Hesitantly in my opinion. Bla bla bla, and delaying. The West now has a chance to win, but ALREADY you can hear voices to 'save Putin's face'. Putin's regime will fall sooner if Ukraine's victory will be undoubted and obvious. And, Putin will not use nuclear arms, forget it. USA said to him already :'we will respond accordingly, and will attack You personally first and foremost. We know, where Your bunker is.'
On May 9th parade Putin's speach was very modest, regarding nuclear war.
The biggest problem now is: how quick and in which quantities Ukraine will receive heavy weapons from the West. Ukrainians have the will and moral strength to fight. All they need is offensive weapons. But russian diplomatic bribery begin to work behind the curtains to slow the process down.