Russia invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Perun
- Start date
War crimes everywhere. Propaganda calls them liberators.. NATO Wake up!
The problem is that their apologists always have an excuse for everything. Dead people shot everywhere? Ukrainians used them as body shields. Russian soldiers killed civilians on video? Paid actors / Ukrainians dressed up in Russian uniforms / bodies are moving / they were shot with rubber bullets, etc. You can't reason with these people.
It's incredible that they're pulling back, and the Ukrainians are shoving them down to the Dnieper in the south as well. And if they are correct on at least 50% of the scale, it does seem the Russians have done some horrible warcrimes, for which it is unlikely that they will ever be held impossible. But so far, what they've managed, aside from killing many Ukrainians, is to expose themselves. What a blunder.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Russia are alienating themselves from the civilized world. Are they taking a gamble that their oil and gas wil make the world let them get away with it, with normal relations being restored in a few months?
Or do they simply not care?
Or do they simply not care?
Boroking
In the mire of an ancient swamp
The same people that scream that you can’t trust western media seems to have no problem guzzling down Russian propaganda. The cognitive dissonance is remarkable
Magnus
Pica Serdica
It's not just that they don't care, they seem to think they're on some kind of a sacred mission or something.
Looks like many people even now don't yet realise exactly how sick, irrational, and aggressively self-righteous their society is.
Unfortunately, yes, I'm afraid.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
^ Unintentionally ambiguous. I meant people in the free world, and Russian society. Many Russians don't realise that either obviously.
jazz from hell
Ancient Mariner
Many worrying developments.
The uncivilized behavior of Russia’s military with killings and rapings of Ukrainian civilians, which seems to be tactical. Today we have Medwedew’s twisted propaganda call for a genozide of Ukrainians, because they’re all Nazis, according to him, and Nazis must be killed. How does anybody in Russia even believe this shit!?
Then, also today, I read our government thinks Putin tries to generate as many Ukrainian refugees as possible, in order to overwelm Europe and split it. I mean, just think back at the last refugee crisis...
The uncivilized behavior of Russia’s military with killings and rapings of Ukrainian civilians, which seems to be tactical. Today we have Medwedew’s twisted propaganda call for a genozide of Ukrainians, because they’re all Nazis, according to him, and Nazis must be killed. How does anybody in Russia even believe this shit!?
Then, also today, I read our government thinks Putin tries to generate as many Ukrainian refugees as possible, in order to overwelm Europe and split it. I mean, just think back at the last refugee crisis...
Christopher Baines
Educated Fool
My big worry in all of this is the lack of any real talk of peace between the both sides. I'm talking the west and Russia here, more specifically the US which is what this always boils down to. Ukraine is the poor country in the middle paying the price. I understand the west has to be strong and condemn the war but it will only escalate further with the rhetoric that's currently happening. If and when this war ends there needs to be dialogue started between west and Russia to try and have some kind of working relationship and stop this going any further. We know they are never going to be friends or anywhere near but there needs to be positive dialogue between the two to try and calm the tension. Now that may extremely difficult given what's happening but I fear if the current tit for tat continues between the two, things may get far worse.
____no5
Free Man
This is one of the most good willing and logical comments I've read here on the subject. Well, neither Russia or US want to end the war right now. Russia needs an emphatic victory and US needs Russia to be worn as much as possible. And naturally Ukrainians don't want to give away their land, especially when all the West stands with them.
On your other point, I don't think US wants any reconciliation with Russia any time soon. Check this or this. First one shows the planned NATO drills for 2022 (most in proximity to Russia) and the second the report of Rand think tank, dated 2019 how to overextending & Unbalancing Russia. Thus the intention is not there, never been.
Ideally US would like to overthrow Putin, have a US friendly government there and turn their attention to the real deal which is China.
As a Plan B, by the re-arming of Germany, Europe would take the responsibility of the "Russian" front, so again they could focus in China under their AUKUS.
As a side note I see a dwarf in Europe, being dragged by US. For one, US talks with Iran is something that EU should lead. It is EU's interest to find the next pipeline, not US'. Because there is no way that American LNG can be a solution and I know that for a fact since there are no ships in the Market or slots in building yards for the next 4 years. Not that it would be a viable solution even if there were ships, since the cost would be very high, as x4 high.
Western leaders have been attempting dialogue with Putin. Olaf Scholz and Emmanuel Macron were in Moscow just days prior to the invasion. Both have been talking to Putin on the phone on a regular basis since. The Austrian chancellor just returned from a visit in Moscow. All of them are desperately trying to hold the conversation with Putin. But he keeps lying to them and does not open up one bit. There's only so much you can do, the other side needs to respond too.
Presuming the Ukrainians hit the Moskva with their Neptune anti-ship missiles, it would be the largest ship seriously damaged in combat since the Yamato was sunk in April, 1945.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Looks like the ship may not have sunk, but it is out of commission for a really long time (if not forever). Cost estimated at $750M and more importantly will reduce the number of missile strikes in the South. I assume the rest of the fleet will not be too anxious to get too close to shore
Seeing some tweets from Russian government sources suggesting Moskva has sunk, which makes it the largest warship sunk in offensive action since WW2, and probably since Yamato.