RUN FOR YOUR LIVES WORLD TOUR (2025/2026)

The world needs at least a ten year break from Star Wars content.
Problem was between 1983 and 1997 there was basically nothing. So they went into hyperdrive with it now.

I liked Mandolorian but avoid most of it.

Maiden albums frequency is another topic - can't be too much for us, but the band may opt for another 5 years break and aim for 2026.
 
This is aside, but I just had to

May I ask what is the controversy with Star Wars YouTubers?

I don't watch Star Wars, but if it's the same as with Wheel of Time and Tolkien fandoms recently... well, the big corporation is throwing out a very shitty production overall, some of the worst we've seen in recent years, which offends long-existing, passionate fandom, obviously ... and then tries to spin it as the fandom are reactionaries and racists and whatnot, because there are people of color as actors and if you hate the show, you're disliking them. Because, you know, corpos can't possibly do anything wrong.

Some of them really hate when they put girls and people of color in Star Wars movies and they make a living by making videos about it.
Again, I'm coming from the Tolkien/WOT side, but this seems to be the same shit.

I'm an opera buff, I don't care about the race of your actors (though I admit that it could at least be somewhat consistent, like within in-universe communities? It's weird watching a pseudo-Medieval world with Manhattan-like diversity in a single small village, which even my very prim and proper progressive and up-to-date friends say - especially since the series visits and touches upon many countries and cultures which are supposed to be visually distinctive). I care if they're terrible as actors. I care if you butcher the lore. I care if you have lazy scriptwriting and if your characters are horrid, unlikeable, bland, if they don't work. I care if you throw enough money at your show to build a half of a space shuttle and then it looks like cheap TV shit with shoddy editing, bad sound and overall non-imersive feel of stuff put together 15 minutes ago for a school performance.

I care about the fact that you have series that has the "coming of age" aspect as one of its main and praised tenets (WOT) and then you take the three protagonists and one is suddenly a street urchin and a thief coming from a broken home, one suddenly has casual shags with his childhood sweetheart and one suddenly has a wife whom he accidentally kills in the first episode, traumatising him for the rest of the season (until you need him for a love triangle that wasn't in the books). "Coming of age" story indeed.

I certainly don't hate girls being put there, in films, series, video games. One of my favourite video games recently have been Alien: Isolation and Control - add Odyssey's Kassandra and you get strong, admirable female protagonists that are recognisably female and work great as characters and actually nearly surpass pretty much every male protagonist I remember bar Arthur Morgan in recent memory. My favourite Tarantino flick is Death Proof, which not just passes the Bechdel test, but actually is 100% female for 97% of the screentime (and it's hard to not read it as a female empowerment fantasy). Heck, Wheel of Time is already extremely female-centric and very feminist in many ways (mostly, the girls are the bosses there). And yet they can fuck it up, make them unlikeable, butcher the characters. Because they have to hire showrunners without any experience to care for their billion-dollars-worth IP (which was the case of both Wheel of Time and Rings of Power).

(As for Star Wars, my first thought of a "girl with a gun" comes from Ripley... and right after that from Leia and Padmé - there were always badass women and for some reason, then the bad bad racists didn't have problem with that)

And still this narrative persists - I've been repeatedly accused of being racist and a reactionary, because the cast is diverse and they introduced polyamory, so the work is somehow untouchable. (??)

I don't know if the Star Wars YouTubers truly are racist or sexist or something, but considering the current discourse in the mainstream, I have my doubts. And I'm certainly not inclined to be on the side of the corporations here.
 
All well and good, but is kinda irrelevant when talking about Star Wars in particular. No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
There have been new shows and movies that are beloved (The Mandalorian for its first couple of seasons, Rogue One) and there have been shows and movies that are hated. The same can be said about earlier entries to the franchise, with the Prequels having been hated for years upon years.

Modern Star Wars has its issues, but there is an entire industry of YouTubers who use it as ragebait; who constantly pick apart everything (even when it is 100% consistent with previous lore and the same exact thing happened in the original trilogy, but somehow there it's okay) and simply stirr up hate. There's a lot of sexism and bigotry involved with those YouTubers, which is particularly stupid when talking about a sci fi universe. There have been plenty of hate campaigns and death threats by "Star Wars fans" who are mad that a main character is female or Asian for example.

Also, none of this is in any way relevant to Maiden, so might as well drop it and return to the topic at hand.
 
This is aside, but I just had to



I don't watch Star Wars, but if it's the same as with Wheel of Time and Tolkien fandoms recently... well, the big corporation is throwing out a very shitty production overall, some of the worst we've seen in recent years, which offends long-existing, passionate fandom, obviously ... and then tries to spin it as the fandom are reactionaries and racists and whatnot, because there are people of color as actors and if you hate the show, you're disliking them. Because, you know, corpos can't possibly do anything wrong.


Again, I'm coming from the Tolkien/WOT side, but this seems to be the same shit.

I'm an opera buff, I don't care about the race of your actors (though I admit that it could at least be somewhat consistent, like within in-universe communities? It's weird watching a pseudo-Medieval world with Manhattan-like diversity in a single small village, which even my very prim and proper progressive and up-to-date friends say - especially since the series visits and touches upon many countries and cultures which are supposed to be visually distinctive). I care if they're terrible as actors. I care if you butcher the lore. I care if you have lazy scriptwriting and if your characters are horrid, unlikeable, bland, if they don't work. I care if you throw enough money at your show to build a half of a space shuttle and then it looks like cheap TV shit with shoddy editing, bad sound and overall non-imersive feel of stuff put together 15 minutes ago for a school performance.

I care about the fact that you have series that has the "coming of age" aspect as one of its main and praised tenets (WOT) and then you take the three protagonists and one is suddenly a street urchin and a thief coming from a broken home, one suddenly has casual shags with his childhood sweetheart and one suddenly has a wife whom he accidentally kills in the first episode, traumatising him for the rest of the season (until you need him for a love triangle that wasn't in the books). "Coming of age" story indeed.

I certainly don't hate girls being put there, in films, series, video games. One of my favourite video games recently have been Alien: Isolation and Control - add Odyssey's Kassandra and you get strong, admirable female protagonists that are recognisably female and work great as characters and actually nearly surpass pretty much every male protagonist I remember bar Arthur Morgan in recent memory. My favourite Tarantino flick is Death Proof, which not just passes the Bechdel test, but actually is 100% female for 97% of the screentime (and it's hard to not read it as a female empowerment fantasy). Heck, Wheel of Time is already extremely female-centric and very feminist in many ways (mostly, the girls are the bosses there). And yet they can fuck it up, make them unlikeable, butcher the characters. Because they have to hire showrunners without any experience to care for their billion-dollars-worth IP (which was the case of both Wheel of Time and Rings of Power).

(As for Star Wars, my first thought of a "girl with a gun" comes from Ripley... and right after that from Leia and Padmé - there were always badass women and for some reason, then the bad bad racists didn't have problem with that)

And still this narrative persists - I've been repeatedly accused of being racist and a reactionary, because the cast is diverse and they introduced polyamory, so the work is somehow untouchable. (??)

I don't know if the Star Wars YouTubers truly are racist or sexist or something, but considering the current discourse in the mainstream, I have my doubts. And I'm certainly not inclined to be on the side of the corporations here.
This.

I grew up with films and series presenting women as strong and independent (Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, etc.), but now such characters are used as a shield against criticism.

1) A corporation is making a show
2) Actresses are starting to claim that this is 'the first movie ever with a woman in a leading action role', sometimes openly saying in interviews that they hope a few white bigots will get mad at them.
3) Viewers are starting to point out that this isn't the first female action role/the script is mediocre
4) The corporation/mentioned actors are screaming about attack/racism.

Nowadays, 'racism' or 'sexism' is increasingly used to mean 'a situation where someone doesn't like our product but we have to justify it to the shareholders'.

I'm not saying that sexism and racism don't exist - (unfortunately, there are still people who judge others based on the color of their skin, gender or who they sleep with in private) but in the case of corporations it is increasingly used as an excuse for bad business decisions / blaming fans for bad results (my favorite argument - if you don't like our decision = you're a racist). I'm old because once these words meant specific, strong things and not that I refused to buy a product.
 
The thing is, you're just parroting the same lines that the toxic fandoms repeat endlessly. "It's the corporations fault, not ours!"

At some point you (not you personally) may have to claim some responsibility over sending death threats to any actors of colour in Star Wars or Rings of Power (which is well documented). Or review bombing shows and movies before they've even been seen.

George Lucas was so sick of his own fans he sold his company to get shot of them. Tolkien fans have always been toxic. I remember the abuse they would send to Liv Tyler and Peter Jackson. The difference these days is that there's now a racial element which has just made things worse.

It's not all just "corporations bad".
 
I think at some level all fan bases, including Maiden, are toxic, it's nothing to do with the item that they are fans of, just misery loves company. You also get a situation whereby normal fans start drifting away from the toxicity making these cunts more prominent.
 
This.

I grew up with films and series presenting women as strong and independent (Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley, etc.), but now such characters are used as a shield against criticism.

1) A corporation is making a show
2) Actresses are starting to claim that this is 'the first movie ever with a woman in a leading action role', sometimes openly saying in interviews that they hope a few white bigots will get mad at them.
3) Viewers are starting to point out that this isn't the first female action role/the script is mediocre
4) The corporation/mentioned actors are screaming about attack/racism.

Nowadays, 'racism' or 'sexism' is increasingly used to mean 'a situation where someone doesn't like our product but we have to justify it to the shareholders'.

I'm not saying that sexism and racism don't exist - (unfortunately, there are still people who judge others based on the color of their skin, gender or who they sleep with in private) but in the case of corporations it is increasingly used as an excuse for bad business decisions / blaming fans for bad results (my favorite argument - if you don't like our decision = you're a racist). I'm old because once these words meant specific, strong things and not that I refused to buy a product.
That's BS, sorry. Your example is probably about Jennifer Lawrence from 2022, where a comment of hers was completely taken out of context. She did not claim what you are writing here, she said that they were told that.

In most of those controversies it's not about the writing. It's about the "audacity" to have a leading role that is not a straight cis white man, as we've had for dozens of years. The toxic "fans" never criticize the plot holes and writing issues of the entries they love, they only ever attack new movies and shows. I can absolutely guarantee you if Terminator or Alien were to release today, the anti-woke crowds would be screaming bloody murder about "forced diversity", "mary sues" and similar bullshit.

But once again, this has nothing to do with Maiden ^^

Edit: Also, this discussion is kinda funny with regards to this forum in particular, where people who have valid criticisms often get made fun of and their points ridiculed, for being "too negative" and "ridiculous".
 
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That's BS, sorry. Your example is probably about Jennifer Lawrence from 2022, where a comment of hers was completely taken out of context. She did not claim what you are writing here, she said that they were told that.

In most of those controversies it's not about the writing. It's about the "audacity" to have a leading role that is not a straight cis white man, as we've had for dozens of years. The toxic "fans" never criticize the plot holes and writing issues of the entries they love, they only ever attack new movies and shows. I can absolutely guarantee you if Terminator or Alien were to release today, the anti-woke crowds would be screaming bloody murder about "forced diversity", "mary sues" and similar bullshit.

But once again, this has nothing to do with Maiden ^^

Edit: Also, this discussion is kinda funny with regards to this forum in particular, where people who have valid criticisms often get made fun of and their points ridiculed, for being "too negative" and "ridiculous".
Imagine if they replaced Nicko with a woman drummer!

It would be "Iron Woke" this and "Cross-Eyed Mary Sue" that...
 
That's BS, sorry. Your example is probably about Jennifer Lawrence from 2022, where a comment of hers was completely taken out of context. She did not claim what you are writing here, she said that they were told that.

In most of those controversies it's not about the writing. It's about the "audacity" to have a leading role that is not a straight cis white man, as we've had for dozens of years. The toxic "fans" never criticize the plot holes and writing issues of the entries they love, they only ever attack new movies and shows. I can absolutely guarantee you if Terminator or Alien were to release today, the anti-woke crowds would be screaming bloody murder about "forced diversity", "mary sues" and similar bullshit.

But once again, this has nothing to do with Maiden ^^

Edit: Also, this discussion is kinda funny with regards to this forum in particular, where people who have valid criticisms often get made fun of and their points ridiculed, for being "too negative" and "ridiculous".
Nah, I was talking about Star Wars interviews claiming that i.e. star wars is patriarchal and need being more woman centric while completly ignoring Leia, Padme, Ashoka, Asaji Ventress, Mon Mothma and so on. And then claiming that cancelation of the show was based on being about women (while ommiting that fans want to see another season of Ashoka).

I don't know - Alien: Romulus is getting very good reviews, I didn't seen any mantion of mary sues etc. so again - this argument can be made for both sides. If Terminator would be made today certain group would be scream blood murder if Terminator would be not a) black or c) woman.

Point was that most of these outrage is made by companies trying to save their skin in front of shareholders and sometimes by people who want to be offended (because that is how they can get validation from group).

how this connect to maiden? Certain songs can be viewed as problematic, yes, but this would in no way lead to cancelation. The songs we are talking about do not marginalize or objectify women, rather they describe someone who today would be called a 'sex worker'. It is very difficult to find material to generate anger, and anger generates engagement, which starts algorithms and escalates anger to the level of 'canceling' someone. Also - there's no scenario where recording company would come and say 'you know what? Tickets sales are low because this songs is sexist' or whatever.
 
I promise, my last comment here, I agree we should return back to the main topic, please

That's BS, sorry. Your example is probably about Jennifer Lawrence from 2022, where a comment of hers was completely taken out of context. She did not claim what you are writing here, she said that they were told that.

In most of those controversies it's not about the writing. It's about the "audacity" to have a leading role that is not a straight cis white man, as we've had for dozens of years. The toxic "fans" never criticize the plot holes and writing issues of the entries they love, they only ever attack new movies and shows. I can absolutely guarantee you if Terminator or Alien were to release today, the anti-woke crowds would be screaming bloody murder about "forced diversity", "mary sues" and similar bullshit.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Let's put it this way - I have seen many Christian movies (unfortunately most of the US make) ... and they are terrible, mostly. In fact, I find them more terrible and offensive because I'm a Christian. Because if you want to preach (i.e. that's your priority) AND you're not an excellent storyteller/creator/whatever, it's always going to be shallow, cringy, hamfisted, stupid. People will know.

Same goes with other ideologies. There is a huge difference between diversity and forced diversity. There is a huge difference between strong/powerful character and a Mary Sue. Everybody knows that, or at least, instinctively feels that. Is able to recognise it in the final product. If you're going to claim you fail see the difference, sorry, but I will suspect you of disingenuity because of your political bent, because you're otherwise a person of insight and rather sound analysis, so I simply wouldn't believe you to be this blind.

Would there be people nowadays complaining about Ripley (also, not taking into consideration the current political context, by the way, but whatever)? Probably. Would it be 75% of the audience? Doubt so.

I hated on Kelly Tran (at first; I don't think people should have bullied her, like they shouldn't have bullied Ahmed Best or Jake Lloyd - you don't deserve that for a job badly done). And not because she's Asian or because she's female, but because the character was absolutely horrid, more annoying than Jar Jar. And because she came off as a terrible actress. Like Christensen in the prequels. Maybe that's not her fault, maybe it's the fault of the director/scriptwriter/whoever. But still, you tend to conflate the actors with the roles you meet them in.

To react to your post - would there still be toxic people, racists, sexists, whomever, if the product was good? Probably (although I somehow fail to see toxic people complaining about the insanely overpowered female protagonist of Control ... or the other women in positions of authority there... maybe because they're great and likable as characters and have flaws and don't feel like fake constructs designed to check off diversity points or to hammer home some point, strawmaning over any dissent).
But you wouldn't get non-toxic people complaining about Mary Sues. You wouldn't get actual progressives complaining about forced diversity (which I've thankfully seen, which shows that you can be of that political bent and not be hopelessly "locked in").

This whole post feels to me like, I don't know, everyone who says God's Not Dead fucking sucks (which it does) is a toxic, braindead Satanist.


Besides
The thing is, you're just parroting the same lines that the toxic fandoms repeat endlessly. "It's the corporations fault, not ours!"

At some point you (not you personally) may have to claim some responsibility over sending death threats to any actors of colour in Star Wars or Rings of Power (which is well documented). Or review bombing shows and movies before they've even been seen.

George Lucas was so sick of his own fans he sold his company to get shot of them. Tolkien fans have always been toxic. I remember the abuse they would send to Liv Tyler and Peter Jackson. The difference these days is that there's now a racial element which has just made things worse.

It's not all just "corporations bad".

This is not something specific to those fandoms, though - you get toxicity and death threats with everything (I've also gotten some in my life, and I'm an internal employee of a university and I don't come to contact with the public much) - and especially on the internet.
I mean, members of Antestor were getting death threats from the black metal community (including the musicians themselves) because they were Christians and "tainted" the tr00 blag kvlt genre. I wonder where the blokes got the time for sending those, between the burning of the churches or doing homophobic murders. But it's the blokes that sent the death threats, burned churches and killed homosexuals who are the legends today, you know?

Anyway, it is the corpos' fault that they give the reason to hate the product even to people who aren't toxic. And it is their fault if then just cry "bigotry", because that's the easiest (i. e. - cheapest) way.
I won't take responsibility for every fringe unhinged cunt on the internet, much like I don't expect every left-leaning progressive to take responsibility for every tankie that literally wants to close off airports and defenestrate people or something.

Imagine if they replaced Nicko with a woman drummer!

It would be "Iron Woke" this and "Cross-Eyed Mary Sue" that...

For someone who complains about "toxic", someone should tell you that strawmaning (or wishing someone strapped to a rocked and die) is toxic as well.

All the more since I don't often see people complaining about women in rock bands, whether it be Iron Maidens or Lita Ford or My Bloody Valentine or Pixies or White Zombie or the entire symphonic/gothic subgenre, whatever. You know, for all the toxicity.

there's so many things wrong with that post, I don't know where to begin...

It's called whataboutism, I suppose.


Anyway, fuck this exchange, really, this is absolutely useless, nobody is convincing anyone, nobody's even listening, let's go back to the Run for Your Lives Tour. PLEASE.
 
Nah, I was talking about Star Wars interviews claiming that i.e. star wars is patriarchal and need being more woman centric while completly ignoring Leia, Padme, Ashoka, Asaji Ventress, Mon Mothma and so on. And then claiming that cancelation of the show was based on being about women (while ommiting that fans want to see another season of Ashoka).
Eh, can't say too much about SW, I'm not a fan so I won't comment on that.

I don't know - Alien: Romulus is getting very good reviews, I didn't seen any mantion of mary sues etc. so again - this argument can be made for both sides. If Terminator would be made today certain group would be scream blood murder if Terminator would be not a) black or c) woman.
Nope. There are constantly movies releasing with straight white men as protagonists and they're doing fine. Random Twitter accounts with 10 followers raging isn't the same. For Star Wars in particular there is literally an industry that capitalizes on outrage and sends death threats to people. This is not even close to being the same.

Point was that most of these outrage is made by companies trying to save their skin in front of shareholders and sometimes by people who want to be offended (because that is how they can get validation from group).
This I disagree with. There is no evidence to support such a statement. Just go through YouTube, through channels like CriticalDrinker and similar ghouls. They are stirring controversy and they are obviously not corporations. This feels like you're trying to rationalize something without having looked at any actual evidence.

how this connect to maiden? Certain songs can be viewed as problematic, yes, but this would in no way lead to cancelation. The songs we are talking about do not marginalize or objectify women, rather they describe someone who today would be called a 'sex worker'. It is very difficult to find material to generate anger, and anger generates engagement, which starts algorithms and escalates anger to the level of 'canceling' someone. Also - there's no scenario where recording company would come and say 'you know what? Tickets sales are low because this songs is sexist' or whatever.
Maiden are not under threat to be "cancelled" and all of this is just an excuse for people to air their grievances. Which is fair I suppose, but also pretty off-topic. A single comment talked about Prowler and now we have a bunch of users talking about "cancelling" and wOkEnEsS.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Let's put it this way - I have seen many Christian movies (unfortunately most of the US make) ... and they are terrible, mostly. In fact, I find them more terrible and offensive because I'm a Christian. Because if you want to preach (i.e. that's your priority) AND you're not an excellent storyteller/creator/whatever, it's always going to be shallow, cringy, hamfisted, stupid. People will know.
I'm not saying that things are above criticism or that many modern movies don't suck. Episode IX for example was an absolute turd (I have a soft spot for VIII though). I was talking about a specific subset of toxic groups who claim to care about writing, but don't actually engage with criticism of the plot, the characters or the writing. It's a guise to complain about the product. I mentioned the CriticalDrinker channel further up in this comment, who stirs up controversy about anything that has a minimum of diversity in it, yet he also blatantly lies to his audience. I've seen a few of his videos and in almost all cases he mentions plot holes for example, which are directly addressed and answered by the movie, yet he misrepresents the facts to keep his audience angry. I was talking about such cases, not everyone in general.

Same goes with other ideologies. There is a huge difference between diversity and forced diversity. There is a huge difference between strong/powerful character and a Mary Sue. Everybody knows that, or at least, instinctively feels that. Is able to recognise it in the final product. If you're going to claim you fail see the difference, sorry, but I will suspect you of disingenuity because of your political bent, because you're otherwise a person of insight and rather sound analysis, so I simply wouldn't believe you to be this blind.
A bad script is going to be bad, regardless of diversity. Yeah, ham-fisted justifications can be jarring, but I would argue that this is an issue of writing quality and not a problem with diversity in itself.

The thing I take issue with: Unless we're talking about a documentary or a biopic, why does a character who might be gay, black, Asian or a woman have to justify their existence, but it's completely fine if it's a straight white dude? There are plenty of movies and shows where it shouldn't make any difference what the skin colour or sexuality of the main character is. Yet in many cases there are discussions about these things if the main character isn't a white man. An example from gaming: Assassin's Creed Shadows is facing a lot of backlash at the moment for one of the two protagonists being black, despite being based on the historical character Yasuke, who was the first non-Japanese person to be a Samurai. (Admittedly, there are some historians who interpret him as not qualifying as a Samurai, while most seem to agree that he was)

Would there be people nowadays complaining about Ripley (also, not taking into consideration the current political context, by the way, but whatever)? Probably. Would it be 75% of the audience? Doubt so.

I hated on Kelly Tran (at first; I don't think people should have bullied her, like they shouldn't have bullied Ahmed Best or Jake Lloyd - you don't deserve that for a job badly done). And not because she's Asian or because she's female, but because the character was absolutely horrid, more annoying than Jar Jar. And because she came off as a terrible actress. Like Christensen in the prequels. Maybe that's not her fault, maybe it's the fault of the director/scriptwriter/whoever. But still, you tend to conflate the actors with the roles you meet them in.
Criticism, especially when it's constructive is fine and I don't take issue with that. I think it's well established with my opinions on Maiden that I'm not above criticizing things, even when I like them. As you say, the moment it turns to harassment and death threats is when it's far too much.

To react to your post - would there still be toxic people, racists, sexists, whomever, if the product was good? Probably (although I somehow fail to see toxic people complaining about the insanely overpowered female protagonist of Control ... or the other women in positions of authority there... maybe because they're great and likable as characters and have flaws and don't feel like fake constructs designed to check off diversity points or to hammer home some point, strawmaning over any dissent).
But you wouldn't get non-toxic people complaining about Mary Sues. You wouldn't get actual progressives complaining about forced diversity (which I've thankfully seen, which shows that you can be of that political bent and not be hopelessly "locked in").
The issue, especially seen in gaming at the moment, is that these things have become culture war issues and there are plenty of grifters who stoke the flames because they can make money off it. See the recent lists about "woke games", where they keep track of pro-LGBTQ or environmentalism themes (just to mention a couple). They like to point to flops that no one was interested in the first place like Concord or Suicide Squad and blame wokeness, while super hits like Baldur's Gate 3, which by their criteria is super woke, get ignored, otherwise it would hurt their argument. I maintain that the issue isn't wokeness, it's about the quality of the game.

Hope this made my stances on this a bit more clear and that even if we won't agree on everything there won't be this need to go back and forth a thousand times lol

Anyway, fuck this exchange, really, this is absolutely useless, nobody is convincing anyone, nobody's even listening, let's go back to the Run for Your Lives Tour. PLEASE.
Agreed.
 
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