Discussion in 'Dance Of Death' started by LooseCannon, Sep 5, 2003.
My thoughts exactly.
Among my least favourite songs off the reunion albums. A series of bland musical ideas poorly strung together into a song which has no natural flow, instead coming to complete stop every time a new section is to be introduced. One of the few songs in the catalogue of Iron Maiden where I feel the music draws attention away from the lyrics - they simply say the exact same thing, being the equivalent of having the three amigos all play the same notes for 8 minutes instead of creating a contrast that works to direct the listeners attention to a certain part. It's incredible bland, both harmonically and rhythmically. Somewhat saved by interesting guitar solos, or otherwise I'd put this as a weak 4/10.
What's with all the paschendale bashing all of a sudden?
I often feel there is a sort of fashion on what songs to like or dislike around here, a while ago everyone seemed to praise this one and now a lot of people seem to do the opposite. Nothing wrong with that of cours, probably not the same people and if it is, well, opinions change, I know mine certainly do even after some 30 years of listening. So just an observation, that's all.
There's probably something to that. This forum definitely has trends of certain songs, albums, or even other bands being popular. You can get a good impression of that when looking at the differences in survivor results over the years.
I think that bashing Paschendale has become a hipster Maiden trend. People think it's the best - it's the worst!
It's also a matter of expectations. Paschendale now has a lofty reputation to live up to. It's hard for a new Maiden fan to have the same experience we had hearing it for the first time when it came out.
Of course, expectations aside, it doesn't help that it's not that good to begin with.
You're right. It's not "that good". It's better.
OK. There's a couple of things I don't like about Paschendale but overall I think it's a very good song. What I don't like...the chorus:
Home, far away
From the war
A chance to live again
Home, far away
But the war
No chance to live again
Kind of unnecessary and not really stating much except the obvious. Yes at home, a chance to live, war, no chance to live...OK
German propaganda machine..." such before has never been seen" Not the best lyric arrangement there, but OK.
And then my least favorite part about Paschendale is that after the big crescendo and the song dies out in symphonic glory and everything....they HAVE to go back and repeat the intro tapping/morse code thingy AGAIN...absolutely not necessary IMO.
But other than that! Fantastic song. I'd give it a solid 8.
Better than good? That's still not very good though. And by Maiden standards, in my opinion, it's not up there with their best. In fact it's quite far down the pecking order in this respect.
Ranked 4th on this website, so...while you might dislike it, the vast majority of people disagree.
I'm aware of that. I think that's overrating the track to be honest. Only three better tracks in Maiden's entire discography? Nah.
I think it's interesting that this criticism keeps coming up when talking about Paschendale lately. Personally I think it's really refreshing and appropriate for the subject matter. For Maiden epics when the music dies down you'd expect it to go into a quiet section. Rime, Sign of the Cross, To Tame a Land, Seventh Son...they all do this. It's a signature stamp of Maiden. But there's none of that in Paschendale. In fact every time the music dies down and the morse code thing comes back, the music gets more intense. And I think it captures the war zone imagery well. In an epic about such a deadly battle, there's no room for calm/quiet section. Any brief moment of relief is quickly followed by more grinding riffs and theatrical vocal performances.
It's ironic really. One of the most consistent compaints about the reunion era is the epics following the same formula of soft intros/soft outros and the like. But then you get an epic that breaks those rules and people still criticize it. Go figure.
I'm not sure I get what you mean Mosh. They do use the same formula of soft intro/outro in Paschendale...I want the song to ring out at the 7:40 mark when they make that big crescendo..instead they have to do the tapping part again with Bruce singing another soft verse..
When they do the big crescendo and you think the song is ringing out you're like...."Holy shit, that was aweso.....Ow, they are not done yet..no.....Ok...now they are done" I just want to be left breathless, no need for Bruce to come back and sing that final "See my spirit..." part.
I don't know, to me it's a lot different from what they usually do. Look at A song like FTTGOG or Dance of Death off the same album. They start clean/acoustic and calm, with extended verses before building to the heavy parts. But Paschendale is heavy to me right from the start. The tapping melody is haunting and I can feel tension in the morse code rhythm and Bruce's voice. And it's very short, they don't waste any time getting to the crescendo.
I (think?) agree it's different from other "epics". I've never, personally, thought about it in the same vein as Maiden's other classic "epics" though (never categorised it as this), perhaps for the very reason you cite. Although, I'm not entirely sure if there's not a few holes in that argument Mosh (as Sixes points out). But I agree it's heavy pretty much from the start.
However, basically, I don't really like the guitar work that much. And I don't like the guitar tone. Take away the synth/keyboard parts (the tone & sound of which I'm not a fan of, at all) & just listen to that guitar part. It's really, really not that interesting. Nice solos, yeh. But to be ranked as the 4th best track Maiden have ever written?! Come on, this is pure nonsense. Perhaps the recent backlash is just because people can't believe how incredibly overrated this song is on this forum. My suspicion is that the subject matter & the fact that Adrian Smith had a hand in writing it have a big part to play in the inflated opinion of it.
No and I love this. Great intro to the song but do we need to hear it again at the end? I don't think so.
Yes we do. Ending before that is too soon.
First, the riff immediately before the final section is not the main riff; it's a short riff that appears only 3 times in the song. Songs don't generally end on a riff that, in the larger structure, has not been emphasized. The reason is thematic closure, and it's a
concept that goes back for many hundreds of years. It's a worldwide pattern, through all history: human beings prefer music that returns to the main theme at the very end for closure. Cutting off just the ending would sound truly bizarre.
Second, your suggested cutoff of 7:04 is worse by far. At that midpoint of the final chorus, it hasn't been truly established as a final chorus yet! It would sound like Maiden just gave up after randomly repeating this section we'd heard only once earlier in the song. Hearing something only once is not enough to establish it as a chorus. Ending suddenly after a second repetition (before the third repetition, which is the second half of the final chorus) establishes the chorus status but not the finality.
If Paschendale ended any earlier than it does, it would sound incomplete. Like an abandoned work in progress.
I simply don't agree with you. For the sake of the theme and the overall atmosphere of the song I would have liked the song to have ended "on the battlefield" so to speak....No reason to get all calm again and turn back to the start riff/morse tapping....
And please read. I clearly wrote 7:40..not...7:04...7:04 ending would obviously be very stupid when it's in the middle of a verse...
My bad, read it wrong.
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