Official Star Trek Thread
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
Scott Bakula is definitely a different captain, but I like him. The show has some really great, some really fantastic arcs and episodes, but the cast never quite lives up to the strength of TNG or DS9.
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
I agree with that, I liked the Doctor, but while the other characters had their moments, they never really got fleshed out that well. That and I think the first 2 seasons were pretty mixed and had a lot of "been there, done that" moments .. which I guess is to be expected after VOY/TNG/DS9/TOS ...
Seasons 3 and 4 were real solid to really good though.
Whatever problems the show had, Bakula was not one of them. I thought he was good in it.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Well, this going 900+ years into the future thing on Discovery is pretty pointless. That’s such a huge leap that you’ll never get the technological advancement right, you’ll always horribly underestimate it. But I suppose it was one of the few ways to (lamely) deal with the fundamental continuity problems of the show.
Might have been better to push them into the same timeframe as the temporal cold war stuff from Enterprise, maybe even make one of the Discovery folks the shadowy figure helping the Suliban to show motivations from the other side. Or maybe just write the whole thing off as an alternate universe.
Might have been better to push them into the same timeframe as the temporal cold war stuff from Enterprise, maybe even make one of the Discovery folks the shadowy figure helping the Suliban to show motivations from the other side. Or maybe just write the whole thing off as an alternate universe.
SixesAlltheway
Ancient Mariner
Enjoy! 
Spambot
Meme Lord
Couple of weeks ago, I stooped so low that I even started watching Discovery. I knew I was going to spend a couple of weeks quarantined at home (not COVID related) and that I was going to have a lot of free time but not enough energy to do something constructive. Netflix recommended it, third season was out - so why not?
Considering first season, I got to admit this - it's an OK show IF (and that's a really big "if") you don't look at it as a Stark Trek show. It was pretty easy to forget this is Star Trek and watch is like it's some other science-fiction series. I mean, Klingons didn't look anything like Klingons, uniforms and accompanying accessories didn't look like anything from some other ST shows that I've watched and there weren't so many references to the Star Trek lore. A couple of episodes in, I've decided to give it a chance, blocking everything I know and love from TNG, TOS, Voyager and movies. For a generic SF show - it was pretty OK. Main plot was interesting as were some subplots and every episode served the story that kept going. Even better, within some episodes were those ethical/moral dilemmas which made the whole thing interesting. The cast was so-so, ending of a season a bit of cliché, but overall I wasn't fed up with it (like I expected it to be).
Now, in the second season - it all went downhill pretty soon. They started heavily relying on Star Trek lore and even introduced some famous characters which were awful and also they managed to shatter the illusion that I wasn't watching Star Trek. Somewhere throughout the season I couldn't even concentrate, but was still watched it throughout the end. During the second season, I kept remembering the trailer for 3rd one and was intrigued how is that going to look like. (To be honest, at this point I was in and out of consciousness so I'm not really the one to criticize, but those episodes that I did saw weren't good.) And when 3rd season came - complete shitfest. Even worse, some characters that were watchable became so irritating (Michael Burnham and her bizarre over-acting) and that catch they were announced - IMO they couldn't pull it off. So, I just gave up.
I know the first season was criticized a lot, but honestly, I'd like it more if they stuck to that formula and just kept going. They could have had their own little universe but now, it looks like they threw it all for a casual-fan service while still trying to push the envelope further and made such a mess from a show. Anyway, I just found out that the guy who made Rick and Morty is making Star Trek: Lower Decks so I might give that a try. (and I'm not holding my breath for second season of Picard.)
Considering first season, I got to admit this - it's an OK show IF (and that's a really big "if") you don't look at it as a Stark Trek show. It was pretty easy to forget this is Star Trek and watch is like it's some other science-fiction series. I mean, Klingons didn't look anything like Klingons, uniforms and accompanying accessories didn't look like anything from some other ST shows that I've watched and there weren't so many references to the Star Trek lore. A couple of episodes in, I've decided to give it a chance, blocking everything I know and love from TNG, TOS, Voyager and movies. For a generic SF show - it was pretty OK. Main plot was interesting as were some subplots and every episode served the story that kept going. Even better, within some episodes were those ethical/moral dilemmas which made the whole thing interesting. The cast was so-so, ending of a season a bit of cliché, but overall I wasn't fed up with it (like I expected it to be).
Now, in the second season - it all went downhill pretty soon. They started heavily relying on Star Trek lore and even introduced some famous characters which were awful and also they managed to shatter the illusion that I wasn't watching Star Trek. Somewhere throughout the season I couldn't even concentrate, but was still watched it throughout the end. During the second season, I kept remembering the trailer for 3rd one and was intrigued how is that going to look like. (To be honest, at this point I was in and out of consciousness so I'm not really the one to criticize, but those episodes that I did saw weren't good.) And when 3rd season came - complete shitfest. Even worse, some characters that were watchable became so irritating (Michael Burnham and her bizarre over-acting) and that catch they were announced - IMO they couldn't pull it off. So, I just gave up.
I know the first season was criticized a lot, but honestly, I'd like it more if they stuck to that formula and just kept going. They could have had their own little universe but now, it looks like they threw it all for a casual-fan service while still trying to push the envelope further and made such a mess from a show. Anyway, I just found out that the guy who made Rick and Morty is making Star Trek: Lower Decks so I might give that a try. (and I'm not holding my breath for second season of Picard.)
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Discovery has gotten even worse in season 4 — it’s now a melodramatic cartoon where people just feel shit at each other rather than anyone acting like a grown, thoughtful adult with any professional reserve. I guess the show was always sort of like that, but it seems worse than ever now. I don’t know how much more patience I’m going to have with this.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I've stopped watching Discovery, I held on for two seasons, it had good bits to it and it had bad bits. They've decided to utilize the bad bits to develop the series further, so I'm out.
Enterprise is weird. At beginning it's some sort of an Earth vessel ran mostly by Americans. There are some other nations/races on board but it's mostly like a NATO vessel overseen by a cold step-mother type of an alien race. It's really not the Trek setting but they manage to do it in the scope of a season and a half. They developed characters well and found some good enemies to fight against.
Mind you, Voyager sucked for first 3 seasons. Voyager pretty much sucked for the entire runtime of Enterprise but they were left with enough time to recuperate and repay the audience with some great episodes and story arcs. Remember caretaker, Kes, the Phage, Kazons as main enemy. Voyager's beginning is so bad, that I, who never caught full season 1 on TV syndication, was not fully aware of the Maquis-Starfleet moment or the original Voyager's mission at all.
Also Rodenberry's Trek in political sense is all encompassing, utopistic. The point of Trek is "we've solved our petty problems" and we move on to galactic things. The classic Trek people are monolithic, virtue based characters from a better world. IMHO, Discovery is full of regular, shitty, early 21st century people. The point of Trek is that we've reached both sociological and technological process in sync. The point of Discovery is that people act in 2300 like it's 2010 (while people from 2010 act far, far remote from those 300 years ago), just with technology (aparenty given to humankind by techno-angels such as Musk, quoted, verbatim)
Enterprise is weird. At beginning it's some sort of an Earth vessel ran mostly by Americans. There are some other nations/races on board but it's mostly like a NATO vessel overseen by a cold step-mother type of an alien race. It's really not the Trek setting but they manage to do it in the scope of a season and a half. They developed characters well and found some good enemies to fight against.
Mind you, Voyager sucked for first 3 seasons. Voyager pretty much sucked for the entire runtime of Enterprise but they were left with enough time to recuperate and repay the audience with some great episodes and story arcs. Remember caretaker, Kes, the Phage, Kazons as main enemy. Voyager's beginning is so bad, that I, who never caught full season 1 on TV syndication, was not fully aware of the Maquis-Starfleet moment or the original Voyager's mission at all.
Also Rodenberry's Trek in political sense is all encompassing, utopistic. The point of Trek is "we've solved our petty problems" and we move on to galactic things. The classic Trek people are monolithic, virtue based characters from a better world. IMHO, Discovery is full of regular, shitty, early 21st century people. The point of Trek is that we've reached both sociological and technological process in sync. The point of Discovery is that people act in 2300 like it's 2010 (while people from 2010 act far, far remote from those 300 years ago), just with technology (aparenty given to humankind by techno-angels such as Musk, quoted, verbatim)
bearfan
Ancient Mariner
Agree with pretty much all of the above.
Yoyager missed a massive opportunity to incorporate some "Battlestar Galactica" elements to the show with a long journey home, but ended up being mostly a planet of the week show with new and less interesting planets. They certainly had some good episodes and some good stories, but it could have been so much better.
My main problem with Discovery is I really do not like the majority of the characters and the season long stories lack drama and are just not that interesting.
I think Deep Space Nine really holds up the best of all the series because the drama and plot elements are pretty universal and the characters (main cast on recurring cast) are relatable.
That said, I have hopes for the Pike show, I thought he was probably the best part of Discovery and that could be good.
Yoyager missed a massive opportunity to incorporate some "Battlestar Galactica" elements to the show with a long journey home, but ended up being mostly a planet of the week show with new and less interesting planets. They certainly had some good episodes and some good stories, but it could have been so much better.
My main problem with Discovery is I really do not like the majority of the characters and the season long stories lack drama and are just not that interesting.
I think Deep Space Nine really holds up the best of all the series because the drama and plot elements are pretty universal and the characters (main cast on recurring cast) are relatable.
That said, I have hopes for the Pike show, I thought he was probably the best part of Discovery and that could be good.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
There's nothing to like about those characters, that's the problem.
There's a few things I like about the Discovery characters, but the plot seems to strip them all of meaning. It's such a...for lack of a better word, a non-Star Trek set of stories, with little thought into it, and the characters are fully malleable to the need of plot. Which is to say, rather than the plot changing because of the characters' motivations, ambitions, and desires, the characters change to fit the needs of where the writers want the show to go next.
Do we need a calm, steady commander? Hello Saru! Do we need a commander who is frightened and cowardly? Hello Saru! Do we need a commander who makes dumb mistakes? That's you, Saru!
A lot of show runners have taken the wrong lessons from the era of prestige tv, thinking what people want are series long plots. But what people really want are good characters that take meaningful journeys. When the characters stop taking the journeys and the journey starts twisting the characters, brains rebel (see Seasons 5-8 of Game of Thrones). That is what Discovery too often is - characters that twist themselves into knots so the next cool explosion can happen.
Do we need a calm, steady commander? Hello Saru! Do we need a commander who is frightened and cowardly? Hello Saru! Do we need a commander who makes dumb mistakes? That's you, Saru!
A lot of show runners have taken the wrong lessons from the era of prestige tv, thinking what people want are series long plots. But what people really want are good characters that take meaningful journeys. When the characters stop taking the journeys and the journey starts twisting the characters, brains rebel (see Seasons 5-8 of Game of Thrones). That is what Discovery too often is - characters that twist themselves into knots so the next cool explosion can happen.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Ship's computer has feelings or the entire ship has feelings, e.g. it does not like being hit by a meteorite, itches the hull and such.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
Effectively both, though technically it’s the computer, which apparently now needs the same hourly encouragement and armchair psychotherapy as all the other crew members in order to avoid an emotional breakdown.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Colour me surprised, yet another contemporary topic.
I love how writing crew seems to get their inspiration out of Popular Mechanics or whatever its called.
I'm actually waiting for my old core quad Q6600 to become sentient, too. So I can send it to groceries.
I love how writing crew seems to get their inspiration out of Popular Mechanics or whatever its called.
I'm actually waiting for my old core quad Q6600 to become sentient, too. So I can send it to groceries.
TNG did an episode with a similar outcome, but they smartly had the sentience create a vessel for itself and fuck off forever. They also linked it more aggressively into established show canon, by having it functionally start duplicating Data's positronic net. Anyway, Discovery sucks in so many ways and this is just another one.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
Discovery literally made me feel sick. I made it to maybe the 3rd ep and I was done. I am happy to see so many people also dislike it who are Trek fans. Someone made a point thats its not even really a Star Trek show, and I think that's about as accurate as one can get and something to keep in mind.
DS9 was, and is, forever my favorite. But I'm certain everyone has their reasons for their favorite series. Sisko, in my mind, was the most badass captain to ever grace the bridge.
I was super excited for Voyager with a female captain, but I was immensely disappointed. Not because she was a bad actress, but the part was written by men for her to act just like a man captain. And I am in no way insinuating sinister intention here, I think they were trying their best. It's just I think they did't know how to write it. Some writers can cross these boundaries well, but really not many. (that Im aware of) It just felt so flat to me as a result. I wanted a more dynamic performance instead of a textbook male captain. Just not my cup of tea.
Speaking of dodgy plot devices (as it seems the current topic), how many damn episodes did they use a holosuite/holodeck malfunction for??? lol I lost count. Though the James Bond like one on DS9 was hysterical. I bet that was a fun one on set.
Favorite Star Trek moment:
DS9 was, and is, forever my favorite. But I'm certain everyone has their reasons for their favorite series. Sisko, in my mind, was the most badass captain to ever grace the bridge.
Though I especially hated his draconian handling of the Eddington situation and Maquis. Then again, I dont think we were supposed to like his actions there. I think it was an example of flaws and being power drunk. And I actually love Eddington's character. I thought his addition to the series was brilliant, but I know others who would disagree, so I guess its a matter of personal preference.
I was super excited for Voyager with a female captain, but I was immensely disappointed. Not because she was a bad actress, but the part was written by men for her to act just like a man captain. And I am in no way insinuating sinister intention here, I think they were trying their best. It's just I think they did't know how to write it. Some writers can cross these boundaries well, but really not many. (that Im aware of) It just felt so flat to me as a result. I wanted a more dynamic performance instead of a textbook male captain. Just not my cup of tea.
Speaking of dodgy plot devices (as it seems the current topic), how many damn episodes did they use a holosuite/holodeck malfunction for??? lol I lost count. Though the James Bond like one on DS9 was hysterical. I bet that was a fun one on set.
Favorite Star Trek moment:
When Odo and Kira finally freak out at each other on the promenade and promptly begin passionately snogging. And seeing everyones reaction. I mean wtf? lol It's their §$%&in fault for waiting 6 seasons.
Discovery is a generic science fiction action show, with occasional winks to the people who know Star Trek to try to convince you it's Star Trek.
Honestly, many of the characters are interesting, but they do not resolve situations in a Star Trek way. What made DS9 interesting, where Sisko was similarly possessed of the occasional moral inequitude, was that he tried but failed to live up to those ideals, whereas in Discovery they only exist when plot says it's OK.
Honestly, many of the characters are interesting, but they do not resolve situations in a Star Trek way. What made DS9 interesting, where Sisko was similarly possessed of the occasional moral inequitude, was that he tried but failed to live up to those ideals, whereas in Discovery they only exist when plot says it's OK.
Nyx
Rebel Girl Royalty
If I start saying what I disliked about Discovery (everything, basically, except a good many of the cast) I'd go on for a fortnight. lol But I definitely agree with you about the writing and plot devices. There should have also been greater cohesiveness to actually being Star Trek.
Its another example of misplaced writers trying to piggyback off of an established franchise, while at the same time §$%&ing it up because they dont even slightly understand its universe.
Its another example of misplaced writers trying to piggyback off of an established franchise, while at the same time §$%&ing it up because they dont even slightly understand its universe.