Official Israel/Palestine topic

Forostar said:
You think peace will come when the borders will stay like this?
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I really wish I had your confidence when it comes to the idea that peace will come once the 1967 borders have been restored.

Nakba does not refer to the 1967 war. It refers to the 1948 partition.
 
It looks like the Arab league is going to push a resolution in the UN for a Palastinian state based on the 1967 borders.  It will pass the GA, and will be vetoed in the SC, I suspect by the US.
 
I doubt the Palestinians are ready for a state today. Not unless you want (another) Palestinian Civil War.

Forostar said:
I don't think resistance (in whatever form) will ever stop as long as Israel will not change a thing, and keeps building their houses on ground which is not theirs.
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Settlement obviously needs to stop. Israel should just let the Palestinians get their shit together, or not, and keep killing them, I think.
 
LooseCannon said:
Settlement obviously needs to stop. Israel should just let the Palestinians get their shit together, or not, and keep killing them, I think.
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Which is exactly why I think there can and will never be peace. Those West Bank settlers will not let themselves be relocated. As long as they are going to be there, there will be no peace- and they will do everything to stay there.
 
There is no way Israel is going to go to the 1967 borders. Those are strategic positions they value, and it would be foolish for them do so. Maybe a compromise of a size of land equal of that to the 1967 borders parceled out for a Palestinian state, yes, but for them to go to a width of only 8 miles at it's narrowest is suicidal. They are'nt going to agree to going to 1967  borders, no matter who pushes them to do so. I don't know if the US would veto a resolution calling for 1967 borders, because the President called on Israel to do so.
 
If there was to be a resolution about this, it might be the first one on the topic that all permanent Security Council members will agree on. Of course, it would also depend on the consequences drawn if Israel would choose to ignore it.
 
If the resolution is drawn from the GA, there is no way the US will not veto it (possibly others too).  I tend to doubt though there is anything the security council can come up with that Israel will agree (assuming Israel is not part of the process).
 
As it's Easter I felt it would be appropriate to resurrect a thread. Although this one has been dead for longer than three days.

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A few days ago Testament played their first ever show in Israel. Which is cool. It's always good to see Metal bands visiting new countries. Eric Peterson (guitarist) posted a picture on his Instagram of himself and Steve di Giorgio (bassist) with some young ladies from the Israeli army (female Israeli soldiers look awesome by the way) which appeared to cause a lot angst from the Boycott Israel sort of people.

In response Alex Skolnick (guitarist) posted this on Facebook:

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with the following statement:

“Great night in Tel Aviv! First time, amazing crowd. Looking forward to next time!” I wish that were all that needs to be said. However...

Unlike a couple bandmates of mine - thrown for a loop by the subsequent rage-comments underneath pics of themselves posing with a team of young Israeli women in uniforms fulfilling their required service in the IDF - I’m anticipating blowback.

Now before you launch into accusations of my being a “supporter of the occupation,” “Zionist sympathizer,” etc...let’s look at a few things that are simultaneously true:

* The symbol within this flag - the Star of David - is both a symbol of the Nation of Israel and a symbol of Jewish heritage. One can be proud of the star within and simultaneously feel appalled by some actions by the State of Israel and the behavior of certain segments of the population - I am and I do.

* One can be a massive fan of Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters as a musician - I am - yet still consider his call for a “cultural boycott” of Israel - and thus depriving its general population of music (which can be the best voice for change) - among the worst ideas you’ve ever heard - I do. (A pop artist who recently bowed to pressure from Waters - Lorde - canceled an Israel date yet went ahead with a concert in the Philippines on the same tour just after their leader, Duterte, committed a massacre of civilians there, highlighting the selectiveness of Waters & the BDS movement).

* A flag can be both a symbol of a nation’s government and a symbol of that nation’s people. “The People” includes those who oppose their own government (including the Likud party and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu - whom I too oppose with a vengeance). However, all the people should not be judged by the worst transgressions of their own government - I’m not too keen on all the things done in the name of my country’s flag (preemptive war, Japanese internment, Indian displacement, slavery...I could go on) but it’s still my flag.

* One can be Jewish culturally and genetically (I am) without being religious (I’m not). On the flip side, one can also be of a non-Jewish ethnic background and convert to Judaism religiously (I know folks who fit this description). Regardless, the Star of David represents all Jewish heritage, cultural, genetic, and/or religious. So when the Star of David is disparaged (such as Waters’ placing it on the flying pig in his concerts,) even if the intended reference is the State of Israel, it is an insult to all of Jewish heritage and its most charitable description: ignorance.

*One can wade into these issues knowing it will piss off folks on all sides, friends, fans and otherwise. And one can decide to go ahead and do so anyway.

Shalom/Salam/Peace
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I agree with everything Alex said. It's nice that someone is speaking sensibly about this issue.
 
Amazing how whenever someone of Israeli birth and Jewish descent questions the course of the country, it's somehow not anti-Semitic.
 
LooseCannon said:
Amazing how whenever someone of Israeli birth and Jewish descent questions the course of the country, it's somehow not anti-Semitic.
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Actually, no. Natalie Portman is getting called an anti-Semite by a lot of people right now. So dumb.

Black Wizard said:
Is it considered anti-Semitic for a non-Jewish/Israeli person to question the regime of the country? :confused:
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Yes. It's an annoyingly popular reaction.
 
The problem is that a lot of people use criticism of Israel as an opportunity for anti-Semitic statements. I'm not going to say that you can't or shouldn't criticise Israeli politics if your opinion is that they are wrong, but I have very rarely heard such criticism that didn't involve a certain degree of thickly or thinly veiled anti-Semitism. Conversely, of course, I have witnessed cases in which someone who wishes to be explicitly understood as non-anti-Semitic has been overly apologetic towards policies they would otherwise condemn to hell. Yet, if I had the means to do a statistical analysis of this (which I don't, all I have is anecdotes), I wouldn't be surprised if the former case by far outweighed the latter in terms of frequency and intensity. But that's just my personal observation, not research of any sort.
 
I agree. Certainly most if not all criticism towards Israel I've heard in my country is anti-Semitic in essence. But that doesn't excuse the aforementioned reaction to all criticism regarding Israel.
 
Sure it doesn't, but it should make you be careful whom you cheer for. In the current particular case, it's not a problem I suppose, but I wish people were ever vigilant.
 
Sure it doesn't, but it should make you be careful whom you cheer for. In the current particular case, it's not a problem I suppose, but I wish people were ever vigilant.
 
Sure it doesn't, but it should make you be careful whom you cheer for. In the current particular case, it's not a problem I suppose, but I wish people were ever vigilant.
 
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