Official Israel/Palestine topic

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Politically that is...

Interesting news. Netanyahu does not like it but I hope that the more radical elements will be subdued on this new path...

I think Netanyahu is annoyed because he will have to take the Palestinians more seriously, and (if all goes better!) he'll have less excuses for blocking change. Let's see how good a move this is, and let's hope the Palestinians will get more land and freedom.

More info on this deal:

Hamas and Fatah due to sign reconciliation agreement (BBC news)

Hope and caution over Hamas-Fatah deal (BBC news)
 
IF Hamas sticks to the deal this time, and doesn't just use it to get a temporary gain before going full psycho again.

If I were anyone in Israel, I'd be skeptical. Hamas has a long, long history of peace treaties.
 
Israel too. ;)

I can understand the skepticism, but the Palestinians have to try something, so I approve of this development.
 
The amount of energy wasted on this conflict is stupefying. There will be no peace, not in our lifetimes. I have given up all hope on this one.
 
Perun said:
The amount of energy wasted on this conflict is stupefying. There will be no peace, not in our lifetimes. I have given up all hope on this one.
It's going to be hard to succeed if no one is trying.
 
Yax said:
It's going to be hard to succeed if no one is trying.

No one is trying? I've seen a lot of people try and fail on this one. What is your suggestion that people do?


Incidentally, it's amazing how short memories can be. Hamas and Fatah aren't uniting, they are re-uniting. Last time, that ended with a civil war. Anybody remember this, from not even four years ago?
 
Perun said:
No one is trying? I've seen a lot of people try and fail on this one. What is your suggestion that people do?

They should all go watch Winnie the Pooh this summer and learn the meaning of FRIENDSHIP :)
 
Perun said:
No one is trying? I've seen a lot of people try and fail on this one. What is your suggestion that people do?
You misunderstand. I meant that, even though we're probably not going to see peace for like, 100 years or whatever, we're not going to get there if people doesn't try and get peace treaties etc signed now, even though they are likely to fail. Eventually it will pay out.
 
Yax said:
You misunderstand. I meant that, even though we're probably not going to see peace for like, 100 years or whatever, we're not going to get there if people doesn't try and get peace treaties etc signed now, even though they are likely to fail. Eventually it will pay out.

So, seriously, why should I care? I've seen literally dozens of peace attempts fail there. And I'm not exaggarating. Let them hit their heads on each other and finally have a peace plan in a hundred years. What is it my business? As for now, when talking to Israelis and Palestinians and people who are into that matter, and believe me, I have talked to a lot, my impression is that they want to continue this conflict. I don't give a shit anymore. Let them kill each other. Let them go on. They want it. How is it our business?
 
Perun said:
How is it our business?

Ai, I have rarely seen such black statements coming from you, when it comes to that region. Perhaps it's the anger about two sides you have wished a better future.

Iran (and some Middle East nations) is different because I don't imagine one feels much for the oppressive governments.
 
Forostar said:
Ai, I have rarely seen such black statements coming from you, when it comes to that region. Perhaps it's the anger about two sides you have wished a better future.

Let me put it this way: I spent a lot of time with this subject. I put a lot of effort in educating myself on the background of both sides, on their reasoning and their motivations. I listened to people from both sides, and I tried to understand them. And I listened and talked to people who have nothing to do with the conflict and just took interest in it, for some reason. Hell, on this board alone, we've had this topic over and over and over and over.

I was once shown the newspaper from the day I was born. The headline read: "New attempt at peace talks in the Middle East." Four years back, I read the same headline in a daily paper. And the day before yesterday, I read some old newspapers from 1979 for research purposes and ran accross literally the same headline. Literally. The wording was exactly the same on a paper from 1979, 1984 and 2007.

With so many failed peace attempts, my conclusion is that neither side is genuinely interested in peace. They just want to eradicate their enemies. So if they just want to kill each other - let them. I regret having put so much energy on this topic. Also, if you consider the size and population of this strip of land, you have to admit that this conflict is blown way out of proportion.

In the end, it's like following that girl everybody told you to stay away from. It was a waste of time and energy, it wasn't good for you and you shouldn't have done it.
 
I hardly dare to react, because I doubt if we want to do these discussions over again. 

Let me just say I don't agree with everything you've said.  :)
 
My problem is that, even if we find a point we can agree on, it will always remain this: A point two people agreed on on an internet discussion board. It's not going to solve the conflict.
 
Just saw a breathtaking speech by Obama on the Middle East.

He was very realistic and very honest.

Obama is the wisest President of the United States. Ever. Period. Especially when it comes to foreign policy.
 
Concerned to the Middle East, I certainly think that he is the best informed leader, and he makes the wisest decisions and tries his best for all the people who live out there (no matter what religion).

Never took a US president such a wise stand in the Israel conflict. He addressed both parties, without hiding honest criticism.

Later he made great comparisons with the past of the USA as well (like LC did).
 
I just read the speech, and it was a good speech in terms of laying out what happened and what the issues are, but the actions he is proposing, do not seem overly grand

For Isreal/Palestine, the main paragraph seems to be this

These principles provide a foundation for negotiations. Palestinians should know the territorial outlines of their state; Israelis should know that their basic security concerns will be met. I know that these steps alone will not resolve this conflict. Two wrenching and emotional issues remain: the future of Jerusalem, and the fate of Palestinian refugees. But moving forward now on the basis of territory and security provides a foundation to resolve those two issues in a way that is just and fair, and that respects the rights and aspirations of Israelis and Palestinians.
I really am not arguing with what he says here, but I do not quite get what he plans to do

RE: the Arab Spring, the actions seem to be

Forgiving  $1B in debt from Egypt and give them another $1B line of credit, ask the G-8 to come up with a plan for Tunisia and Egypt, and open up Trade with Egypt/Tunisia .. for other countries, we are helping Libyan rebels, but will probably not do that elsewhere and we do not trust Iran

Again, not sure any of this is really bad, but it does not seem so impressive either.  Perhaps it is because I read it versus heard it.
 
Back
Top