Official Iran Thread
- Thread starter Perun
- Start date
No official explanation was given. The Guardian Council does not give explanations. But everybody knows that he wasn't approved of because he's had a beef with parts of the ruling elite, especially the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Khamene'i).
The Guardian Council consists of twelve members, six clerics and six laymen. The clerics are appointed by the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Khamene'i). The laymen are appointed by the parliament (which is elected by the people), but approved of by the Head of Judiciary, which, you guessed it, is appointed by the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Khamene'i). The Guardian Council approves of candidates for presidential and parliamentary elections as well as elections for the Assembly of Experts, which appoints and controls the Supreme Leader. The Guardian Council also controls the conformity of Iranian law with Islam, and is essentially a Supreme Court with a veto right on legislation. It also has a lot of other tasks. Hence, it is essentially legislature and judicature in one institution. It is appointed for six years, every three years, three members get replaced by random.
The Guardian Council consists of twelve members, six clerics and six laymen. The clerics are appointed by the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Khamene'i). The laymen are appointed by the parliament (which is elected by the people), but approved of by the Head of Judiciary, which, you guessed it, is appointed by the Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Khamene'i). The Guardian Council approves of candidates for presidential and parliamentary elections as well as elections for the Assembly of Experts, which appoints and controls the Supreme Leader. The Guardian Council also controls the conformity of Iranian law with Islam, and is essentially a Supreme Court with a veto right on legislation. It also has a lot of other tasks. Hence, it is essentially legislature and judicature in one institution. It is appointed for six years, every three years, three members get replaced by random.
Well, the Supreme Leader is appointed for life (unless the Guardian Council rules that he is being unislamic), so he essentially appoints his successor. There's been only one such transition so far.
Probably, but not overnight. There won't be another revolution.
Ayatollah Khamene'i? Everyone agrees that he's the scourge of evil.
Apparently quite a few women put themselves forward, more as a symbolic gesture than anything, and it was duly decided that it was against the rules for women to stand
Right now, it appears as though Hassan Rowhani will get absolute majority. This is good news: Rowhani is a reformer and gets much support from former presidents Rafsandjani and Khatami, both of whom were responsible for a return to economic prosperity, an increase in civil liberties, and a prudent diplomatic stance in foreign politics.
He is a reformer. That's the name attributed to the group of people he belongs to. Rafsandjani and Khatami were also part of the ruling elite.
Rowhani is not going to introduce a Westminster democracy tomorrow, but he clearly is the best thing possible under these circumstances.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
He is part of the ruling elite, he has served as MoD, which is one of the most "prestigious" positions. However, he is also a centrist.
West should cut of pressure.
Evil summons evil, my country had a really rough 1990s, right-wing extremism was rampant because it was an answer to Serb right-wing extremism. Nothing more, nothing less.
Last time I heard, Iran got good grades of international atomic commission (U.S. experts included!). There's all the proof you'll need. The "questionable" thing is their uranium enrichment on their soil. Simply put, Russians built their power plants, but Iran refused Russia's offering to enrich uranium and export it to Iran. Valid explanation was given - Iran needs self-sufficiency, and giving control of fuel to another country is completely opposite move.
They have a lot of domestic problems, their stance towards anything "non-traditional" is criminal (gays, atheists, alternative artists, etc.). Any one of us here can relate to some oppressed minority in Iran. That's not the issue. Why I mentioned Croatia, is that "social" issues weren't even discussed when we were in the state of war, and we had an "enemy". Remove thy enemy, and people stop thinking about bare survival and start thinking how they're living. Then progress happens.
But looking at the geopolitical situation on middle east, that's not going to happen any time soon.
Reforms, my ass. Power elite in Iran enjoys this situation, same as their counterparts in U.S. and Israel. Iran got it's own military industrial complex, eg a bunch of people living off war. They got politicians and religious figures living in wealth because they are "defending" the people against the enemy, which, let's keep it honest, doesn't want them any good. People rebelled against Shah because he sold out resources and infrastructure to foreign companies. Plain simple. But...religion is simple. Economy isn't. People on this forum are predominantly young, progressive people, with a strong sense of liberty, personal freedoms and similar aspects of Western culture. We represent a subgroup by that very definition. We'll all going to fucking argue about the same things that we have in common. People sharing same religion won't.
Ask us do we want complete, radical change in Iran? We do.
Ask us how it should be implemented? We'll debate and argue and fight about details.
Now put yourself in 1979 Teheran. You know people are fucked up because gov't sold basically everything to foreigners. Ok, but who has an alternative? The very people who propose economic alternatives are shattered in fractions, supported by opposing lobby groups, and they simply don't have strength to overcome internal differences and present a potent wind of change for the people. On the other hand, those religious nutjobs at least have enough force to bring the corrupt regime down. What'll come afterwards? We'll deal with that later. And so you don't vote, or support, or fight, pro some-thing, you vote against something.
And that's very dangerous.
I have relatives in Sarajevo. You can't imagine what it's like when war and politics strips you of everything, and then you have to vote for someone that will keep robbing you off, because that other fraction is going to take away even your basic rights. So you vote for anal raping only, instead of double ass to mouth.
The grand scheme behind it...?
We gave too much power to banks, because we were told that they'll manage our finances from micro to macro level more efficiently.
It was valid in start, it drove development. And in one moment banks got enough power to simply ditch people out of the equation. They do not need to play fair and be beneficial if they want our savings and deposits. They simply ensured them.
We gave too much power to politics, because we were told that it's going to protect us, and preserve all the little things in life that are important to us.
And now we're paying for their luxuries. Because they create public opinion, they create enemies and bogeyman to scare people into obedience.
I am sorry, but we're blowing into the same whistle as Iran. We believe the same category of bullshit.
We need to present a valid alternative to Iranian people. Check this out - I think of myself as a true grassroots communist. And if I were to choose a superpower to be my home in the middle of Cold War? United States of America. Because it was damn good. Because it needed to show an alternative. Housing, medical care, education and food accessible for everyone in commie states was a plus in everyone's book. So USA needed to provide an similar level of that stuff, and have an advantage of far greater freedoms. U.S., and it's West Europe allies were a true role model. My grandmother corresponded with famous Hollywood movie stars back in 1950's. My parents were brought up in the same manners as yours. I wanted to go to MIT. It was a role model, a point of reference.
Now we know that U.S. administrations never considered Yugoslavia as a true friend. There are numerous declassified documents detailing schemes and processes done to ignite and sustain destabilization of the country.
It's our fault, because we screwed thing up. U.S. knew the catch, knew the weakness, and was slowly exploiting for 10 years.
I can't blame a superpower from being a superpower. Yes, they wanted our natural resources and a strategical foothold here, that's what superpowers do.
We've always been careful with Russians. In case you missed your history classes, our leader sent a direct death threat letter to Stalin, and our million men army was ready for blood on Hungarian border in 1948. But U.S.? Naah, they're like just like us, smart people who banished monarchists from their country and have been amassing wealth ever since. That's what we're doing, too.
Right.
In the end, my hatred for American gov't and system, as you can see, comes from disappointment and betrayal.
A lot of people from all around the world, that experienced regimes falling and new ones rising first-hand, feel right about the same way as me.
So, peoples of America, please, do something about it. You were fucking close to it in heights of Cold War.
Economy, it's always about the economy. Even the religion is about economy. Impose a law of full financial and operative transparency of government, together with big corporate entities whose wellbeing is necessary for a large number of employees. Or something else, the method doesn't matter, just work to ensure that you have a full awareness of what your government is doing. Then you'll see that some conspiracy theories aren't conspiracies, or theories, but sad real life truth. Overcome these issues from inside and, become a role model again...you'll see oppressive regimes around the world falling year after year. For fuck sake, nobody likes eating shit when you know neighbor's got a pie. But as of this moment, neighbor's got a bit piece of crap of his own, and now we stink in unison, drowning in belief that we're a less piece of shit than the other.
I am sorry if I digressed too much. I quit work recently and lost a well paid and all-in-all a great job, because I couldn't stand looking how other, "lesser", employees were treated. I just can't think of myself as having the most humane and fair ideological views and be a part of that kind of corporate machine. I am sitting at a round desk with CTO and CEO and we're discussing the current big project and how our tens of thousands of clients are relying on our services and infrastructure, while maintaining emphasis of importance of our services for daily life of those clients, while you two fucks have just fired about a dozen young mothers who'll now find employment again in about 7 years while bank loans and mortgages are hanging above their throats. So they lost someone who's work mattered a bit, that's a fact, not from my mouth. On the other hand, my mother is working under effective mobbing. Her health is suffering greatly because of that. My father accepted such a demotion that's equivalent of a double bitch-slap. Why are they sustaining such jobs? Because they know their son had tendencies to do what he eventually did. Right now, I am living and I'll be living on their backs, hopefully something will materialize in a month or two. Don't have bad feelings though, we're not poor by even Scandinavian standards, the whole point of this over-too-personal rant is this.
When I stood up for someone weaker than me, my shot hurt the bad guy, but then ricochet and hit the people by my side.
The bad guy has three levels of deflector shields and ablative armor. Gah, it's the same bad guy in every town, state, country, region. You all threw shit all over Gadaffi, but his demise was due to certain disagreements with Berlusconi and Sarkozy over a number of financial products, each product representing a piece of EU and Libiyan people's resources now stolen for private use. What about Iran-Israeli secret underground ties and transactions? Where are Armageddon prophecies in that?
They're running a private fucking show, we're paying the price.
So every time you start thinking about Iranian tyrants, open your eyes a bit more and take a look at our societies.
Since we boost and triumph ourselves as great liberals and democrats and what not, let's clean up our own first shit.
But no, we just shout freedom of this freedom of that, while forgetting the fact that mental process required for comprehension of concepts of freedom and civil society requires being born and raised in a socially stable surrounding. Eg. you had food, roof, parents that have enough time to raise you, and access to education. We have enough resources to do that, but we don't. We even rob them. And just shout freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of bla bla bla.
Because it's all we can offer, they'll starve even more while having the privilege of badmouthing the president.
Reminds me of Pele. He's the best because he says so.
West should cut of pressure.
Evil summons evil, my country had a really rough 1990s, right-wing extremism was rampant because it was an answer to Serb right-wing extremism. Nothing more, nothing less.
Last time I heard, Iran got good grades of international atomic commission (U.S. experts included!). There's all the proof you'll need. The "questionable" thing is their uranium enrichment on their soil. Simply put, Russians built their power plants, but Iran refused Russia's offering to enrich uranium and export it to Iran. Valid explanation was given - Iran needs self-sufficiency, and giving control of fuel to another country is completely opposite move.
They have a lot of domestic problems, their stance towards anything "non-traditional" is criminal (gays, atheists, alternative artists, etc.). Any one of us here can relate to some oppressed minority in Iran. That's not the issue. Why I mentioned Croatia, is that "social" issues weren't even discussed when we were in the state of war, and we had an "enemy". Remove thy enemy, and people stop thinking about bare survival and start thinking how they're living. Then progress happens.
But looking at the geopolitical situation on middle east, that's not going to happen any time soon.
Reforms, my ass. Power elite in Iran enjoys this situation, same as their counterparts in U.S. and Israel. Iran got it's own military industrial complex, eg a bunch of people living off war. They got politicians and religious figures living in wealth because they are "defending" the people against the enemy, which, let's keep it honest, doesn't want them any good. People rebelled against Shah because he sold out resources and infrastructure to foreign companies. Plain simple. But...religion is simple. Economy isn't. People on this forum are predominantly young, progressive people, with a strong sense of liberty, personal freedoms and similar aspects of Western culture. We represent a subgroup by that very definition. We'll all going to fucking argue about the same things that we have in common. People sharing same religion won't.
Ask us do we want complete, radical change in Iran? We do.
Ask us how it should be implemented? We'll debate and argue and fight about details.
Now put yourself in 1979 Teheran. You know people are fucked up because gov't sold basically everything to foreigners. Ok, but who has an alternative? The very people who propose economic alternatives are shattered in fractions, supported by opposing lobby groups, and they simply don't have strength to overcome internal differences and present a potent wind of change for the people. On the other hand, those religious nutjobs at least have enough force to bring the corrupt regime down. What'll come afterwards? We'll deal with that later. And so you don't vote, or support, or fight, pro some-thing, you vote against something.
And that's very dangerous.
I have relatives in Sarajevo. You can't imagine what it's like when war and politics strips you of everything, and then you have to vote for someone that will keep robbing you off, because that other fraction is going to take away even your basic rights. So you vote for anal raping only, instead of double ass to mouth.
The grand scheme behind it...?
We gave too much power to banks, because we were told that they'll manage our finances from micro to macro level more efficiently.
It was valid in start, it drove development. And in one moment banks got enough power to simply ditch people out of the equation. They do not need to play fair and be beneficial if they want our savings and deposits. They simply ensured them.
We gave too much power to politics, because we were told that it's going to protect us, and preserve all the little things in life that are important to us.
And now we're paying for their luxuries. Because they create public opinion, they create enemies and bogeyman to scare people into obedience.
I am sorry, but we're blowing into the same whistle as Iran. We believe the same category of bullshit.
We need to present a valid alternative to Iranian people. Check this out - I think of myself as a true grassroots communist. And if I were to choose a superpower to be my home in the middle of Cold War? United States of America. Because it was damn good. Because it needed to show an alternative. Housing, medical care, education and food accessible for everyone in commie states was a plus in everyone's book. So USA needed to provide an similar level of that stuff, and have an advantage of far greater freedoms. U.S., and it's West Europe allies were a true role model. My grandmother corresponded with famous Hollywood movie stars back in 1950's. My parents were brought up in the same manners as yours. I wanted to go to MIT. It was a role model, a point of reference.
Now we know that U.S. administrations never considered Yugoslavia as a true friend. There are numerous declassified documents detailing schemes and processes done to ignite and sustain destabilization of the country.
It's our fault, because we screwed thing up. U.S. knew the catch, knew the weakness, and was slowly exploiting for 10 years.
I can't blame a superpower from being a superpower. Yes, they wanted our natural resources and a strategical foothold here, that's what superpowers do.
We've always been careful with Russians. In case you missed your history classes, our leader sent a direct death threat letter to Stalin, and our million men army was ready for blood on Hungarian border in 1948. But U.S.? Naah, they're like just like us, smart people who banished monarchists from their country and have been amassing wealth ever since. That's what we're doing, too.
Right.
In the end, my hatred for American gov't and system, as you can see, comes from disappointment and betrayal.
A lot of people from all around the world, that experienced regimes falling and new ones rising first-hand, feel right about the same way as me.
So, peoples of America, please, do something about it. You were fucking close to it in heights of Cold War.
Economy, it's always about the economy. Even the religion is about economy. Impose a law of full financial and operative transparency of government, together with big corporate entities whose wellbeing is necessary for a large number of employees. Or something else, the method doesn't matter, just work to ensure that you have a full awareness of what your government is doing. Then you'll see that some conspiracy theories aren't conspiracies, or theories, but sad real life truth. Overcome these issues from inside and, become a role model again...you'll see oppressive regimes around the world falling year after year. For fuck sake, nobody likes eating shit when you know neighbor's got a pie. But as of this moment, neighbor's got a bit piece of crap of his own, and now we stink in unison, drowning in belief that we're a less piece of shit than the other.
I am sorry if I digressed too much. I quit work recently and lost a well paid and all-in-all a great job, because I couldn't stand looking how other, "lesser", employees were treated. I just can't think of myself as having the most humane and fair ideological views and be a part of that kind of corporate machine. I am sitting at a round desk with CTO and CEO and we're discussing the current big project and how our tens of thousands of clients are relying on our services and infrastructure, while maintaining emphasis of importance of our services for daily life of those clients, while you two fucks have just fired about a dozen young mothers who'll now find employment again in about 7 years while bank loans and mortgages are hanging above their throats. So they lost someone who's work mattered a bit, that's a fact, not from my mouth. On the other hand, my mother is working under effective mobbing. Her health is suffering greatly because of that. My father accepted such a demotion that's equivalent of a double bitch-slap. Why are they sustaining such jobs? Because they know their son had tendencies to do what he eventually did. Right now, I am living and I'll be living on their backs, hopefully something will materialize in a month or two. Don't have bad feelings though, we're not poor by even Scandinavian standards, the whole point of this over-too-personal rant is this.
When I stood up for someone weaker than me, my shot hurt the bad guy, but then ricochet and hit the people by my side.
The bad guy has three levels of deflector shields and ablative armor. Gah, it's the same bad guy in every town, state, country, region. You all threw shit all over Gadaffi, but his demise was due to certain disagreements with Berlusconi and Sarkozy over a number of financial products, each product representing a piece of EU and Libiyan people's resources now stolen for private use. What about Iran-Israeli secret underground ties and transactions? Where are Armageddon prophecies in that?
They're running a private fucking show, we're paying the price.
So every time you start thinking about Iranian tyrants, open your eyes a bit more and take a look at our societies.
Since we boost and triumph ourselves as great liberals and democrats and what not, let's clean up our own first shit.
But no, we just shout freedom of this freedom of that, while forgetting the fact that mental process required for comprehension of concepts of freedom and civil society requires being born and raised in a socially stable surrounding. Eg. you had food, roof, parents that have enough time to raise you, and access to education. We have enough resources to do that, but we don't. We even rob them. And just shout freedom of press, freedom of speech, freedom of bla bla bla.
Because it's all we can offer, they'll starve even more while having the privilege of badmouthing the president.
Reminds me of Pele. He's the best because he says so.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Zare, how do you explain that different countries have different living standards? Even in the West, which you seem to treat as one "whole", countries run different politics, have different influences, different intentions, have different histories. Details make the difference in all these matters.
Sad to hear that you lost your job and about your mother's health. Hang on!
Sad to hear that you lost your job and about your mother's health. Hang on!
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Whoa, that was a big fuck-off post, with quite a few shit metaphors! Zare, I hear you man; but what can one individual do about the shit world that we live in?
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
@Cried, that's why I presented my example. An individual can't make a difference. But can set example for others. All in all, my post was a cry against apathy.
@Foro, thanks for support. Regarding different living standards, that's such a broad subject for analysis that I won't even start
Keep in mind that I'm trying to emphasize stuff that brings us together, not our differences.
@Foro, thanks for support. Regarding different living standards, that's such a broad subject for analysis that I won't even start
Keep in mind that I'm trying to emphasize stuff that brings us together, not our differences.
CriedWhenBrucieLeft
Meme Only Account
Btw, Zare, by "shit metaphors" I didn't mean poor metaphors; I actually meant metaphors to do with shits/faeces. Just in case you thought I was criticising...
I'm not saying I disagree here, but how is your post a cry against apathy? You make a lot of varied & interesting points, but I'm unclear what you mean in respect to quite a few. Do you want to talk about any of them in a little more detail?
You mention Iran's nuclear programme. What are you saying here? That they have a legitimate right to nuclear power? That the current stance by the West (i.e. sanctions) is counter-productive? Or that this stance is irrelevant, as internal (within Iran) politics will always serve to create an "enemy" out of someone, to protect powerful groups' own self-serving interests? Or all of these? If an individual can set an example, then surely you want the West to set an example? What's to be done then? What example should they set?
I'm not saying I disagree here, but how is your post a cry against apathy? You make a lot of varied & interesting points, but I'm unclear what you mean in respect to quite a few. Do you want to talk about any of them in a little more detail?
You mention Iran's nuclear programme. What are you saying here? That they have a legitimate right to nuclear power? That the current stance by the West (i.e. sanctions) is counter-productive? Or that this stance is irrelevant, as internal (within Iran) politics will always serve to create an "enemy" out of someone, to protect powerful groups' own self-serving interests? Or all of these? If an individual can set an example, then surely you want the West to set an example? What's to be done then? What example should they set?
And people in the West can't imagine no (real) choice at the ballot box?; can't imagine the choice of voting crap or crapper? Really?
Are you saying democracy is broken, or doesn't (or never) worked in the first place?
What do you want them to do? And why does it matter what the US (on its own) does anyway? What do you want everyone else to do?
This was a brave decision. I have a lot of respect for someone who would do this.
What reminds you of Pele?
TheSeventhSonRoberto
Rockin in Rio
didn't feel like reading through everybody's post here and I've never posted on this thread so I'll simply say. Iran isn't an ideal place to live but at the same time I don't consider them a threat. Israel & The United States need to stay of Iran's business. I don't believe Mahmoud ever said those comments he supposedly said about Israel. When Benjamin uses a freaking cartoon to illustrate Iran as a threat I only roll my eyes and laugh at him. I can't take this guy seriously
TheSeventhSonRoberto
Rockin in Rio
Benjamin is the same guy who urged the United States to invade Iraq after 9/11 saying Iraq had nuclear weapons &is a threat to Israel and the country listened to him! WHY!
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Why not? Do you think there is a Jewish conspiracy to make him look worse than he actually is?
All the Iranians I know agree that Ahmadinejad is a moron and they are pretty happy he's no longer president.