Official Hockey discussion thread
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Habberdasher
Trooper
He has one more year on his contract. He seems to be indicating that he will be done after that. Although I think if the Devils can somehow tunr themselves into a contender, he might stick around for one more after that.
The defense in front of Broduer has gotten much worse over the past two years, but Hedberg severly outplayed Brodeur this year and was basically the starter for about 4 weeks in Jan-Feb.
The other stat that really sticks out against Brodeur is his playoff OT record. Still, he has been dominant (or as his naysayers say above average) for 18 years!
The defense in front of Broduer has gotten much worse over the past two years, but Hedberg severly outplayed Brodeur this year and was basically the starter for about 4 weeks in Jan-Feb.
The other stat that really sticks out against Brodeur is his playoff OT record. Still, he has been dominant (or as his naysayers say above average) for 18 years!
GuineaPig
Ancient Mariner
And Hasek was dominant for over 20 
I don't think Hedberg necessarily played better than Brodeur. Brodeur took the majority of the games in the awful early going, when the Devils were completely disorganized. Hedberg played most of his games under Lemaire, when the team was in sync and on a roll. It would be interesting to see what their shot quality neutral save percentages were.
As for Brodeur's OT record, the blame's on his teammates. He has played more or less the same in OT as he has for the rest of his career. It's just his team that was scoring less.
1999-'03: 1.84 GAA, .917 save %
2004-09: 2.51 GAA, .915 save %
Overtime: 2.29 GAA, 0.916 save %
Brodeur's more or less played the same over his career. His success has, like almost all goalies, depended mostly on his team.
I don't think Hedberg necessarily played better than Brodeur. Brodeur took the majority of the games in the awful early going, when the Devils were completely disorganized. Hedberg played most of his games under Lemaire, when the team was in sync and on a roll. It would be interesting to see what their shot quality neutral save percentages were.
As for Brodeur's OT record, the blame's on his teammates. He has played more or less the same in OT as he has for the rest of his career. It's just his team that was scoring less.
1999-'03: 1.84 GAA, .917 save %
2004-09: 2.51 GAA, .915 save %
Overtime: 2.29 GAA, 0.916 save %
Brodeur's more or less played the same over his career. His success has, like almost all goalies, depended mostly on his team.
Habberdasher
Trooper
How did we get on this battle re: Brodeur being the best all time? The best I can tell is that it started when you indicated that Brodeur played worse in 2001 than Luongo did this year. I disagreed. While I think Brodeur is right near the top all-time, I think we need to wait a few years to fully assess his ultimate place.
I feel confident that history will prove Brodeur is a better goalie than Luongo though (whether he wins the Vezina tonight or not).
All the stats you are pulling up are very interesting though. It really shows how consistent he has been (versus the mercucial Hasek, Roy, etc) whether he has Stevens/Niedermayer/Daneyko/Rafalski as his D, vs Greene/Tallinder/White in front of him, or whether the team is among the league leaders in goals (2000, 2001) or the most anemic (pretty much every other year). I'm willing to bet Canuckheads would prefer consistency from their netminder.
I feel confident that history will prove Brodeur is a better goalie than Luongo though (whether he wins the Vezina tonight or not).
All the stats you are pulling up are very interesting though. It really shows how consistent he has been (versus the mercucial Hasek, Roy, etc) whether he has Stevens/Niedermayer/Daneyko/Rafalski as his D, vs Greene/Tallinder/White in front of him, or whether the team is among the league leaders in goals (2000, 2001) or the most anemic (pretty much every other year). I'm willing to bet Canuckheads would prefer consistency from their netminder.
GuineaPig
Ancient Mariner
Habberdasher said:
Hasek and Roy have been just as consistent as Brodeur. Brodeur has had two career "peaks"; 1995-1998 and 2006-2008. He's played poorly in some years, better in others. No goaltender plays the same every year. Brodeur's consistency has been partly that he's managed to more or less avoid age-related decline, and partly that the teams in front of him have been consistently great defensively. I think the inclination to highlight the strength of a defence because of particular star defencemen is misleading; I'd credit the defensive system first. And with the exception of last year, the teams in front of Brodeur have been excellent defensively, even if they aren't as dominant as they once were. Besides, Brodeur played his worst years (1999-2002) behind the stars you mentioned.
Brodeur has been relatively consistent over the course of his career, but there's no way I'd take him over Hasek. You want to talk consistency? Talk about 6 (and it should have been 7) Vezinas in 8 years, all except one on comparatively poor teams. Or 5 out of 6 seasons with a save percentage over 0.930. Even after Hasek retired for the first time, he had the best even-strength save percentage, when he was between 41 and 43 years of age.
Nick Lidstrom wins his seventh Norris. At age 40. Everything else was expected, I think. Perry wins the Hart for hitting 50 goals and making news.
Watching the King Clancy Award presentation. Something ironic about a huge patriotic American display with a trophy named for a Canadian, gifted by a Canadian, won by an American, in a room with under 20% Americans (I think, but it's not higher than 20%, GP will surely have it broken down to the 5th decimal point).
Watching the King Clancy Award presentation. Something ironic about a huge patriotic American display with a trophy named for a Canadian, gifted by a Canadian, won by an American, in a room with under 20% Americans (I think, but it's not higher than 20%, GP will surely have it broken down to the 5th decimal point).
Habberdasher
Trooper
LooseCannon said:
Nick Lidstrom, I though someone named "Nicholas Lindstrom" won.
At a -2 no less!
I wonder how many votes were from those who thought he was going to retire and wanted to send him out in style. I would have voted for Shea Weber.
It was the closest vote ever. Weber was 7 votes back. I think Lidas was the #2 for a lot of people who voted 1 for Chara and 1 for Weber.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
I hope Brysgalov is worth getting rid of your captain and one of your top scorers.... Philly better hit paydirt with the draft or have some talent in the farm system, because Brysgalov alone won't get them a cup. His contract is for 9 years, but Carter's was for 14 and he still got shipped. Interesting shake down.
What other teams do you guys think will start similar guttings? My money is on Vancouver 
What other teams do you guys think will start similar guttings? My money is on Vancouver
What the fuck!
Good day to be a Kings or Blue Jackets fan though.
Good day to be a Kings or Blue Jackets fan though.
Nigel Tufnel
Ancient Mariner
WTF is Holmgen doing in Philly? For Bryzgalov? HaHaHa. I think he secretly works for Glenn Sather
Habberdasher
Trooper
Not to get all Guinea Pig on you guys, but did you know Ilya Brygalov's save % was only .006 better than Bobrovsky's?
I think Columbus got hosed. Voracek underperformed last year, but I think he is a solid top-6 player, they lost what could be a solid draft pick at #8 this year (Ryan Murphy?) and have to pay Carter for another 11 years.
Overall, I do not think Philly is any better for this. If it was a decision of Richards/Carter vs. Pronger, I would rather have the 2 younger guys.
I think Columbus got hosed. Voracek underperformed last year, but I think he is a solid top-6 player, they lost what could be a solid draft pick at #8 this year (Ryan Murphy?) and have to pay Carter for another 11 years.
Overall, I do not think Philly is any better for this. If it was a decision of Richards/Carter vs. Pronger, I would rather have the 2 younger guys.
Habberdasher
Trooper
mckindog said:
I'm not sure re: Giroux/VRD. I know there was a big rift in the locker room and Carter/Richards (who are best buds) were on one side and Pronger (among others) were on the other.
I think Richards is a big douche, but at least he's a proven commodity, Schenn has played like 10 NHL games. My guess is the Carter trade was to shed cap, and Richards was to clear the air in the locker room. But for a team that was supposedly close to winning it all, these moves seem to push that timeline back a bit.
1. I've seen Voracek play. He's got talent, but he's always been lazy, even in juniors (he's a Moosehead alum). Carter's proven, and they need someone NOW in Columbus. Big price, but Carter can be worth it.
2. Jets are back, TSN reports.
3. Holmgren is gambling something fierce, but he makes a solid case. The Richards contract is brutal, and the guy's attitude slipped last year. He's a greaseball, and when Peter Laviolette tried to sit him down, Richards complained to the media. Bad move, and now he's gone. Carter? I think that Philly wants to trade up in this draft and get a big name, like Landskog (or whatever he is).
It's official: it's the Jets.
2. Jets are back, TSN reports.
3. Holmgren is gambling something fierce, but he makes a solid case. The Richards contract is brutal, and the guy's attitude slipped last year. He's a greaseball, and when Peter Laviolette tried to sit him down, Richards complained to the media. Bad move, and now he's gone. Carter? I think that Philly wants to trade up in this draft and get a big name, like Landskog (or whatever he is).
It's official: it's the Jets.
I'm thoroughly impressed. I watched that bit live, even from work.
