Official Football Thread

Well, now Greece didn't have an early lead - it looked more like "OK, we'll just pass the ball back and forth in defense, then we'll throw a long ball now and then and see if the Swedes will come at us, and if they don't it's OK". They seemed to go for 0-0 which is surprising, Spain are clear group favourites and Greece will have to beat Russia now.

What is even more surprising is the fact that when they started to attack more, they were actually threatening at times - so why don't they try it more often?

As for in the qualifiers - I only watched the ones against Norway. At home the Greeks were a bit like yesterday but not to the same extent. They were actually quite good. But still we were only a horrible offside decision away from 1-1. (Our right-wing Daniel Braaten was two-three meters onside when the ball was passed towards him and he crossed the ball in for a free header for Carew - but Braaten was flagged offside). In our home game (2-2), the Greeks were relying very much on counter-attacking. Both their goals came from corners gained on the counter, and the other two big chances they had also came on breakaways.

Of course, I will not state that playing that way is wrong in any way. But it is not entertaining to watch, thus I hope they get their ass kicked by Spain and Russia as well. The first half yesterday was not more entertaining than the 0-0 draw between Norway and the Republic of Ireland in 1994. And that says a lot ...
 
Forostar said:
It doesn't matter what players thought. Rules are rules. Therefore a 100% goal.
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Apparantly the goal was legal, and it should have stood, but in that case the rules stink. How can an attacker standing directly in front of the keeper, jumping around and restricting the keeper's view, not be considered "active", but a defender lying injured 2 yards off the pitch, away from the goal, still be considered as "in play". Absolutely ridiculous.

Genghis Khan said:
3.  I've read NA say that Croatia made dives.  I'd like to point out that Pogatetz played dirty by tripping and face scratching Olic on at least two occasions.  As far as I recall, Olic was the only one who exaggerated his falls.  But really Pogatetz should have been red carded early in the game. 
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It was just something I noticed then. They're not the only side to do it though, I've just caught the end of Portugal and Czech Republic, where players are going to ground at the slightest touch and winning a freekick. I blame the referees, because if they didn't award the freekicks then players would stop falling over so readily. One of the refs in a game yesterday or the day before just let play continue unless it was a proper foul, and there was much less theatrics after the first ten minutes or so.
Pogatetz was extremely lucky, I agree.
 
national acrobat said:
a defender lying injured 2 yards off the pitch, away from the goal, still be considered as "in play". Absolutely ridiculous.
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A defender off the pitch, standing, laying, jumping, sitting, behind the goal, injured or not (sometimes it's real or not and/or it can't be judged very soon) is considered "in play". Try to realize what could happen if he is not in play.

He could run off the pitch and cause an off side, just by that. That would be legal (and ridiculous, wouldn't it?)

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I don't see what an attacker standing directly in front of the keeper has to do with it.
 
Yes, plenty of situations where players went down easily in Portugal vs Czech Republic. But still, the game was quite good actually. Portugal were the better team, but the Czechs were good enough to convince me they'll go through. I think they were plenty better than Turkey were in their match against Portugal.

Now we're hopefully in for an exciting one between Switzerland and Turkey. Since they both lost their first game I guess both feel they have to win.

And I half-way agree with you on this rule thing. That some referees would consider an attacker as "not influencing" when he is standing right in front of goal without touching the ball, while a defender lying outside the field is counted, seems unreasonable. But I don't think the rules are strictly stating the part about attackers. Recall the semi-finals in this year's Champions League between Liverpool and Chelsea. The Blues had a goal disallowed for offside; it was a shot from about 20 meters that went in. Four Chelsea players were in an offside position but none of them touched the ball. But since one of them (Drogba?) was standing in Reina's line of sight, the goal was disallowed.

As for the defender part - what if a defender is inside the box, close to the line (and thus playing an attacker onside, the keeper is also on the line) and he then slips and falls, across the line? Then the attacker would suddenly be offside if we should count this defender out. And that opens the possibility for defenders to speculate in this.

As the rules are today, any player who crosses the line deliberately to play an attacker offside should be booked. But we could still see people pretending to be injured or "slipping" on purpose. I think the rules are OK as they are now on this point, because it leaves less to be judged by the ref himself. And how often do we see the Panucci situation anyway? I think it is wise that as long as a player has not been allowed by the ref to leave the field, he should be seen as part of the play.

@Forostar; I see NA's point of this being counterintuitive - that an attacker actually disturbing the keeper could be considered "not relevant" for an offside decision feels odd, but on the point of who should be regarded as "in play" we agree completely.
 
Genghis Khan said:
Predictions for tomorrow...

Portugal  2  0  Czech Rep.  (How bad can Milan Baros be if he is not being played?  I'm mean last Euro he wins the Golden Boot and this year we see nothing of him.  He's still young being in his late 20s).

Switzerland 1  1 Turkey  (Turkey should paly Hakan Sukur this time.  Switzerland is not a fast paced team like Portugal nor as aggressive, and Turkey surely needs Sukur's scoring abilities and experience).  This is my prediction is Sukur does not play.

Switzerland 0  2 Turkey (This is my prediction if Sukur does play).
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I was close with the Portugal vs Czech game. 

I just realized that Hakan Sukur is not even on the team squad in Switzerland.  Well, I suppose it did not matter in this game.

Portugal is through.  The second place will go to the winner of Turkey vs Czech Rep.  I favour Turkey.

Eddies Wingman said:
Yes, plenty of situations where players went down easily in Portugal vs Czech Republic. But still, the game was quite good actually. Portugal were the better team, but the Czechs were good enough to convince me they'll go through. I think they were plenty better than Turkey were in their match against Portugal.
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Both teams played rough, but the ref let 'em at it.  He did not call many fouls.  So in that particular game I thought the ref did a good job. 

Czechs may have played better against Portugal than did Turkey, but Turkey played better against Switzerland than the Czechs did.  So ultimately, they're the same.  The reason I favour Turkey to win is that the Czechs do not have a strong midfield like they used to.  Today the combo of Baros and Koller did nothing, but when they had a strong midfield like Nedved, Smicer and Poborsky they were a much more formidable force.  Also the Czechs looked really tired by the end of the game, while the Turks kept going in their game.  That may be the difference maker.
 
Poor Switzerland. Poor coach (I believe his wife is on the intensive care since the beginning of the tournament). A very dramatic match that was.

Tonight I'll go for a victory of the Germans and a victory of Poland. If they don't, well, then it's all over. So do or die!
 
So I'm pleased as punch about that 2-0 win for Sweden over Greece. I have to say, though, it was not good football. Zlatans goal seemed more like chance than real skill and the second goal was entirely a mess and could have been stopped had the Greek goalie just lunged himself at the ball instead of hanging back watching the mess. The Greek side could have done much better than they did because in all honesty the Swedish team isn't that great especially in the midfield region (the defense also made some shocking mistakes), so I don't understand why they hung back so much. Looked like they were content with a draw, and then see what happens when the other team is going out to win. 4-1 win for Spain was merited although credit to the Russians for not giving up. Some beautiful moves there, as ever from the Spanish team, lets hope they don't fold so early this year.

Portugal against Czech Republic was a great game, 3-1 makes it seem like it was an easy game but I thought the Czechs made some very dangerous moves, and had alot of chances. Switzerland and Turkey, now that was exciting especially in the first half when the rain came. The swiss did a real good job, but then got too comfortable with the 1-0 stand and the Turks got a grip on the ball in the second half. Shame that the Swiss lost. Sorry GK, I disagree and say the Czechs should win the match Turkey vs. Czech Republic.

As for tonight, I say Germany win and Poland win. It would be disgraceful for Poland if they lost against Austria. And as the Croatians played against Austria, it would be just as disgraceful for Germany with anything less than a win.

And for tomorrow, I say Italy to beat Romania and Netherlands to beat France.
So I'm pleased as punch about that 2-0 win for Sweden over Greece. I have to say, though, it was not good football. Zlatans goal seemed more like chance than real skill and the second goal was entirely a mess and could have been stopped had the Greek goalie just lunged himself at the ball instead of hanging back watching the mess. The Greek side could have done much better than they did because in all honesty the Swedish team isn't that great especially in the midfield region (the defense also made some shocking mistakes), so I don't understand why they hung back so much. Looked like they were content with a draw, and then see what happens when the other team is going out to win. 4-1 win for Spain was merited although credit to the Russians for not giving up. Some beautiful moves there, as ever from the Spanish team, lets hope they don't fold so early this year.

Portugal against Czech Republic was a great game, 3-1 makes it seem like it was an easy game but I thought the Czechs made some very dangerous moves, and had alot of chances. Switzerland and Turkey, now that was exciting especially in the first half when the rain came. The swiss did a real good job, but then got too comfortable with the 1-0 stand and the Turks got a grip on the ball in the second half. Shame that the Swiss lost. Sorry GK, I disagree and say the Czechs should win the match Turkey vs. Czech Republic.

As for tonight, I say Germany win and Poland win. It would be disgraceful for Poland if they lost against Austria. And as the Croatians played against Austria, it would be just as disgraceful for Germany with anything less than a win.

And for tomorrow, I say Italy to beat Romania and Netherlands to beat France.

Edit: GK, I second that, I was so angry when Greece won Euro 2004, I sulked for a day.
 
Two things:

Firstly, this new ruling tagged onto the offside rule to stop players jumping off the pitch to seek advantage for his side and place an opponent off side, is a good idea. However, a bit of common sense needs to be applied in this instance as Panucci had absolutely no intention of seeking advantage, and neither was the keeper when as he crashed into his defender. It is crazy that a player could be taken out of the game accidentally by a team mate and could be lying unconscious in a heap on the floor after crashing into a advertising board or a camera and still be deemed as in play and play the attacking team onside (I am not saying that Panucci was in this state, but that scenario I described is in the extreme). FIFA need to take a good look at this rule so situations like this don't happen again. And I am not convinced the linesman could see Panucci at all when van Nistlerooy scored. I think he made a mistake in not giving off-side and got lucky.

I agree with NA, this rule - as it stands - is stupid.

Funny comment from Strachan, I think, when talking of Fabregas's goal - "Was he offside?" was the question. "Yes", said he, "he was played on by a Russian substitute warming up on the touch line". :D


Second, to talk of Greece in the way people have in this thread is wrong, I'm afraid. Football has a simple concept, you win by scoring more goals than your opponent. The game itself can be played in a multitude of ways, but you simply don't always win by playing pretty football (and neither does it give you a God given right to win everything either), you don't always win by using the long ball, you don't always win by being very negative, etc.

The fact that Greece played a very uninspiring game to win Euro 2004 is neither here nor there, they won fair and square and should be applauded for doing so (personally, I was very happy for them). They have never being a giant of European football, but they still showed us all how to win a major tournament.

If you think about it, the two most successful international teams in Europe base their games on being either very defensive or just plain efficient - and neither of them really play sexy football. You may aspire to play like Brazil, but if you can't beat the Germans, then so be it.
 
Some footballers are actors, so we can't always trust them. A neutral rule is the best, whatever people's intentions are.

I didn't have problems with Greece last time, in 2004, but this time I was very glad that the best team won: Sweden.
 
Croatia put on a good show today and got a (deserved, I'd say) 2-1 win over ze Germans. We could be in for a thriller finish in group B if Poland win tonight. Then wins for Germany and Poland on the last day of group B would see three teams on 6 points and probably rather close on goal difference ...
 
wow, some serious disussion is happening here   :ok:
I'm watching Austria right now, a nice match but they (Austria) just can't score
And I'm with Albie : maybe Greece played some kinda negative football but hey -it was impossible to be beaten

only Russians won Greece, because of the modern Greek character :
they had almost taken what they needed, so they didn't really try -a classic  :D

that final in Portugal had fixed my 2004 summer -but that was then, and I think Rehagel should try something else
than to be a pathetic looser like if he was playing with Argentina

Except this, I'm very optimist about Croatia and Portugal, and I'd certenly love to see France go to the next round

and something weird : Having seen just the 2nd half between Holland -Italy I was impressed from the Italian passion
that very quickly I changed side and started to support Italy during the match (I was with Holland initialy)

of course Holland kicked asses that day, but it was Italy that touched my heart
 
Well, we played great tonight, a deserved win. Luck smiled upon us for the second goal, but Germans were also lucky for theirs.

On the last three big tournaments (FIFA2002, UEFA2004, and FIFA2006), we followed the same pattern. Qualifiers were easily won, some tough games were won there. Then, we show our weaknesses in the friendly preparation games before the event, and then our game gets lost on the tournament and we don't make it to the second leg.

Some people were afraid that the story would go on, after the weak performance against Austria, after losing to Dutch side in friendly game, home by 0-3, and after dissapointing friendly games (1-0 victories against Hungary and Moldova, two teams that didn't qualify to the tournament).

However, one must note that Austria wasn't very well "scanned". They didn't play qualifiers. They were enthusiastic and agressive, we were under pressure because that game was "already won" (again, stupid media blabbering and pressure), and the referee was clearly on their side. He got a weakest score of all referees of the first round. It's wise to say, that our top-man Eduardo Da Silva got injured while playing for his Arsenal after the qualifiers, and basically, we had to rearrange our whole offensive scheme.

Today, our game was back again, and we were again the team that won on Wembley, and declassed Italians in Livorno right after they became world champions. Mathematically speaking, since Poland and Austria drawed, we're first in group no matter the outcome of the final group round. Portugal is in the same situation, first no matter what, so we'll be playing either Turkey or Czech Republic. That fact makes me very enthustiastic. I'm not degrading both teams in any way, but it's great that we're not up against teams like Portugal, Spain or Netherlands right in the quarter-finals. And it's a fact that both Turkey and Czechs haven't performed really well on the tourney, they're pitting for the second place because the Portugese are clearly superior to all, and Swiss lost everything.

Therefore, i see Croatia pitting for the medal again, and atleast entering the half-finals.
 
Well done to Croatia - congratulations to Zare and Genghis. Croatia were on fire in the first half and were clearly better than Germany. A well deserved win and since head-to-head results has priority over goal difference, you are already winners of group B.

I also agree that Croatia will have to be regarded as favorites against Turkey or the Czech Republic - these two haven't really been impressive (although the Czechs weren't exactly bad against Portugal, the result was mostly down to the Portuguese being more efficient in front of the goal).

I take for granted that Germany will be second in group B considering they have Austria in the final match. Austria were great for 15 minutes against Poland, after that it looked as if the Polish had control most of the time. That is, until 2 minutes into injury time ...

Tonight I predict a narrow 1-0 win for Italy - they will certainly want to show that the crappy defending against Holland was a one-off. I also hold Holland as narrow favorites against France. If my predictions are right, we should then see a direct decider for 2nd place between France and Italy on the final day of group C  :D
 
Croatia won very deserved!
They played totally different, and so did the Germans. Congrats!

I wonder if they'll take back some gas in the last match. That would be in favour of the Poles. I don't count on this though. Somehow I have the idea that Austria could beat the Germans in the last match. The group is getting stranger and stranger.

But I'll quit predicting, for some days. I am truly no Nostradamus, it seems.

@EW: Your words might imply that you think that the Dutch were a bit lucky because Italy's defense  played very bad(?) Without trying to sound too arrogant: The Italians couldn't play better against the Dutch, simply because the Dutch didn't let them. So imo their defense wasn't that crappy. I think that tonight's match has nothing to do with the previous match. Different opponent, new chances. However, it won't be easy. Romania has a tough defense and it could be difficult to get through. But this time Del Piero will start, plus some others! I suspect that the Italians offense will improve but their defense will be of the same quality.

Like Romania, France has also a very strong defense. I wonder if the Dutch can play the same game. At least I hope that Van Basten puts in the same eleven.
 
No, no, no. I'm not saying the Dutch were lucky. You played well by all means. But Italy's defense was not at its best regarding positioning. But it takes a good team to exploit the advantage, and Holland did that to the full. A weaker team wouldn't be able to take advantage. Furthermore, I don't think Italy were that bad at defending, especially the 2-0 goal was pure class and no defense in the world could be guaranteed to avoid that one. But I have no doubt whatsoever that the Italians themselves will feel that they defended poorly, and that's what matters for their motivation tonight. Not what you and I think about their effort, but what the Azzuri think themselves.

In my opinion, both Holland and Italy played quite well. The Dutch were better in getting to clear chances. The game was very entertaining.
 
Alright mate  :)

Here a piece of Dutch internetpress about Italy-Romania:


Preview: Italy - Romania

ZÜRICH (SW) - After being crushed by the Netherlands in their opening match, world champions Italy won't be happy with anything less than victory against Romania.

Italy manager Donadoni is aware of the situation and changed his squad in no less than seven positions ahead of the second match.

One of those changes seems to be the addition of Fabio Grosso to the starting line-up. The defender, who scored that important goal against Germany in the semi finals of the World Cup two years ago, proved to be one of the more motivated players against the Dutch.

Grosso stresses that Italy still have a chance to advance from this 'Group of Death': "I consider myself a squad player and all 23 of us are pulling together to try and achieve the same goal. We must all prove that we're in form.

"The strength of this side has always been our team spirit and our squad mentality. Whether we win, lose or draw we're all in it together and against Romania we will do our best to prove how united we still are and show that we are good enough to win."

Romania, who held France to a goalless draw in their opening match on Sunday, will aim to take advantage of the dented confidence of the Italians.

But midfielder Razvan Cocis refuses to underestimate the Azzurri: "Italy will be hurt after losing so heavily. They are world champions so we will have to be careful."

The Romanians will probably be without Ciprian Marica. The striker suffered a concussion in training and was ordered to rest for a couple of days.

Italy and Romania last met in the qualification for the 2002 World Cup, in which Italy won both matches rather easily. Romania last beat the Italians in a Euro 84 qualification match.

Tom Henning Ovrebo will be the referee for this match. The Norwegian is assisted by Geir Age Holen and Jan Petter Randen as linesmen and Croatian Ivan Bebek as fourth official.
 
I wonder if they'll take back some gas in the last match.
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Probably. We have five (or even six) players with yellow cards. Three of them are in bad position, both defenders, Simunic and R.Kovac, and Dario Srna, who isn't a defender but he has a bit of temper and is prone to yellow cards. Risking yellow card for them against Poland, in a game that means little (only morale-wise it means something) in our current situation...

So i predict you'll see some line-up changes, but i think we're going out there to play. But - not for all 90 minutes. Olic and Kranjcar are going to play one hour, or maybe even just the first half. They ran like animals against Germany.
 
Forostar said:
Tom Henning Ovrebo will be the referee for this match. The Norwegian is assisted by Geir Age Holen and Jan Petter Randen as linesmen and Croatian Ivan Bebek as fourth official.
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Øvrebø was good in the match between Poland and Germany, and unlike many of the refs in this tournament he doesn't give away free kicks for everything. Expect some duels being accepted that other refs would not allow for.

In Norway, several supporter groups have used his bald head as part of a taunt when they are not pleased with his reffing; "More hair than brains"  B) He usually responds with a smile. He has told that the first time he heard it, he had a good laugh himself.


Good luck to Øvrebø and to Holland tonight. As I said, I'd like to see a decisive match between Italy and France in the last match of the group. Ideally, Holland would beat France, too, by 3 goals, and Italy draw with Romania, so that both teams will have the same goal difference and the same number of goals scored ...
 
Eddies Wingman said:
Øvrebø was good in the match between Poland and Germany
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Was that him? Sorry but I can't agree with you here. He or at least his linesman "stole" a Polish goal (as I told before in my first post of 10 June) in that match. I also thought that he killed that game a couple of times, by unnecesary whistling for minor things.
 
If my memory serves me well, there were a number of close offside calls in that match. All of them so close that even if I had supported one of the teams, I wouldn't hang the linesman for any of them. But the Polish one was probably the "worst". And when it comes to whistling for small things I think the majority of refs in EURO 2008 so far have been worse. Portugal vs Turkey comes to my mind.

But I'm not going to defend Tom Henning Øvrebø just because he's Norwegian. After all, I have shouted less polite things at him myself, from the stands. Not any extreme stuff (I save that for the bad refs  ;) )
 
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