Official Football Thread

Congratulations, Forostar  :cheers: Great game to watch, although 3-0 is a little flattering for the Oranje IMHO ... the scoreline didn't reflect the play exactly, but Holland surely deserved to win.

Clearly the best match so far in the tournament, and some controversial situations to discuss as well. Should RvN had a penalty in the first half? I think he would have got one had he gone down - quite sad as I think it was a penalty anyway but the ref didn't give it.

And the 1-0 goal was interesting as well. With the Italian defender outside the line, many refs would surely call an offside, but I agree with the Swede - according to the book, any player that has not been allowed by the ref to leave the field, should be counted as if he's in play. Otherwise we would see players rolling over the line to put opponents in offside every week. And we wouldn't want that, would we?

Anyway, thanks to both Holland and Italy for great entertainment!
 
I think the officials actually made a mistake, thinking van Nistelrooy was played on by another defender, rather than allowing play to continue due to the man off-field. Great game though.

I'll get my predictions for tomorrow in now, as I probably won't have another chance: Greece 0 - 0 Sweden, Spain 2 - 1 Russia.
 
I surely do not find the result a flattering one. There were more big chances and both goalies played very good, so it wasn't just luck either.

The result is legendary already (and historical!) and I don't recall that Holland played so well under Van Basten before. Those last two goals were fantastic, both great input by Van Bronckhorst! Kuyt, Van Bronckhorst, Van der Sar and Sneijder were the 4 best ones imo.

Now let's stay with our feet on the ground and focus on the next match.

And tomorrow? I think Russia will beat Spain (2-1). Greece - Sweden will be a draw (1-1).
 
A deserved win by the Dutch.

Most entertaining game so far.  Only the Germany-Poland game compares.

I see no controversy in the first goal.  Buffon clearly knocked down his own player and as a result the Italian player is counted "in play".  Otherwise we'd have many fakers exploiting this -- not to imply that the Italian defender was faking.  The second goal by Sneijder is the best goal of the tournament so far, in my opinion.  The one touches from the wingers to Sneijder was superb. 
Predictions for tomorrow:

Spain 2  1 Russia
Greece 0  0 Sweden
I'm gonna go on a limb here and predict the semi-finalists.  Germany, Portugal, Netherlands and Greece.  I have to wait to see the Greeks' first game, but they're supposedly even better now.
 
Yeah, great game, second goal was great!

Regarding the first one, i mean, he was "offside" for 2-3 meters right in front of Buffon. Judges never even considered to call it offside. And it's by the book...the Italian defender was out of the pitch without the consent of the referee, therefore he's an active player.
 
Forostar said:
I surely do not find the result a flattering one. There were more big chances and both goalies played very good, so it wasn't just luck either.

The result is legendary already (and historical!) and I don't recall that Holland played so well under Van Basten before. Those last two goals were fantastic, both great input by Van Bronckhorst! Kuyt, Van Bronckhorst, Van der Sar and Sneijder were the 4 best ones imo.

Now let's stay with our feet on the ground and focus on the next match.

And tomorrow? I think Russia will beat Spain (2-1). Greece - Sweden will be a draw (1-1).
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By flattering I just meant that Italy were close several times as well - they were actually quite good, but Holland were more effective in their finishing. I just think 3-0 gives the impression of a very one-sided match when in reality it was not. But finishing is, after all, the most important aspect of the game ... So again, congratulations.

Tonight I agree with the Khan (you'd better agree with the Khan anyway, or else ... right?), Spain will beat Russia and Sweden will draw with Greece. It is a bit early for Spain to stumble. That is going to happen in the quarter-finals as usual  ;)
 
national acrobat said:
(how on earth did England not qualify? I'll explain how later)
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I'll explain now, the 0-0 draw with Macedonia at home. If you want to qualify, you need to at least win your home games. You could cite other factors, but that was the main reason, imo.

As for the first Dutch goal, even van Nistelrooy thought he was off-side. I agree with NA, the official did make a mistake.

But one thing that struck me about the Dutch is how they made a point of getting every outfield player to huddle round the scorer after each goal to show the rest of us that there is a unity within the Dutch camp. As we know, they have a tendency to come to major tournament and allow their egos to take over and then they fall short of their potential.
national acrobat said:
A Canadian, a Kraut and a grumpy old fart walk into a thread...

:innocent:
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I think I've heard this one. :D
 
national acrobat said:
I think the officials actually made a mistake, thinking van Nistelrooy was played on by another defender, rather than allowing play to continue due to the man off-field. Great game though.

I'll get my predictions for tomorrow in now, as I probably won't have another chance: Greece 0 - 0 Sweden, Spain 2 - 1 Russia.
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Well, how could they think that? If that was their reason for not flagging offside, it would certainly be a big mistake. If I'm not completely lost, the rules are normally interpreted like this:

Unless the ball is played towards another attacker who is onside and the defender deflects the ball towards the attacker in offside (here; van Nistelrooy) or the ball is passed directly from the defender, it should be offside.

And the 1-0 goal wasn't even close to this - the ball did touch a defender, but it was certainly bound for the goal and Ruud van Nistelrooy. So if the ref's reason for giving offside was that the ball came off a defender, then his reason was invalid.

Still - according to the rules, like them or not, Panucci had to be considered active as long as the ref hadn't allowed him to leave the field. Thus RvN had two players ahead of him - Panucci and Buffon. I think he is actually exploiting all those small nuances in the offside rule to his advantage - clever stuff although some might disapprove on it.

And even though the rule (about players having to get permission by the ref before leaving the field) had an unexpected consequence yesterday, I think it is a wise rule because without it, we would certainly see players getting out of the pitch deliberately to play opponents offside. Then it would be up to the ref to decide whether the player left the field deliberately (in which case he should book the player) or by accident. The current rule makes life simpler for the referee.
 
It doesn't matter what players thought. Rules are rules. Therefore a 100% goal.

The Polish goal (in this video it starts around 1.40) (62nd minute) which was not given (off-side, which was clearly not the case!) was much more controversial. Germany made an identical goal in the first half, and the decision was different. So that linesman can forget the rest of the tournament.
 
Excellent, I'm actually quite pleased that I was wrong about the Netherland vs. Italy game. A deserved win, if a little surprising for its high score count. I'm surprised that France tied with Romania as well, quite unexpected. So there may yet be some interesting developments in group C.

Today its that much-awaited game against Greece and so far I've seen lots of male Swedes sporting our team shirt. Greece is a bit of a joker card I feel, they won last time but who's to know if they will or can do it again? At any rate I don't think that they will be able to defeat Portugal or Germany this year if they do go further. And with the Netherlands in great form, I think it doubtful that Greece will win this year.

So on to an exciting football evening!
 
Good luck to Sweden from the neighbourhood. I think Greece need to go out early this time to compensate for the last time  :D I am actually quite convinced Spain and Sweden will go to the QFs, but there both will be in trouble. The opponents will be from the quite formidable group C. Which looks interesting already ... could we see France going out early for the 3rd tournament out of the last 4? Would be remarkable. Would be 1st round - 1st round - FINAL - 1st round. But I fancy France to go through rather than Italy. Don't ask why.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
Which looks interesting already ... could we see France going out early for the 3rd tournament out of the last 4? Would be remarkable. Would be 1st round - 1st round - FINAL - 1st round.
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I think that should be 1st round - 2nd round - FINAL - 1st round. In Euro 2004 they qualified from the group stages by topping the group (beating England 2-1 with a last minute penalty - remember Zidane throwing up just prior to taking it?). In the second round they lost 1-0 to the Greeks.
 
Albie said:
I think that should be 1st round - 2nd round - FINAL - 1st round. In Euro 2004 they qualified from the group stages by topping the group (beating England 2-1 with a last minute penalty - remember Zidane throwing up just prior to taking it?). In the second round they lost 1-0 to the Greeks.
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Dammit, you're right. My bad.

Also, nice to see Sweden getting those two goals on Greece. The Greeks were very passive much of the time, just passing the ball around in defense - very dull. I hope the Russians and Spanish follow up.
 
A few comments...

Forostar said:
Greece = coward football!

I am very glad about the result.
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I agree.  I was so unhappy when they won last Euro.  To be honest, I have not watched a single qualifying game of theirs.  Judging by their high points, they must have played well.  So today's strategy must have been a throw-back to Euro 2004.  Perhaps they thought they could do the same, but their defending was off.  Zlatan Ibrahimovic had lot of space and a lot of time to score.

Forostar said:
Sheesh, I never expected that the Russians would perform this bad.  :o
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I don't think they were as bad as the score suggests.  The Spaniards are obviously great players, they just tend to fudge up when it matters the most.  Russia had a couple of great chances that were almost a goal, including a post.  Had they tied the game at 1:1, it might have been different.  Still, I'm not surprized Spain won. 



A couple of other points...

1.  The Italians missed their best defenceman Cannavaro.  Del Piero should have been started because as soon as he came on, Italy started with great chances.  None of this is meant to take away the game from the Dutch because they surely deserve the win.

2.  Apparently, the Austrian player that scores first will get a life-time supply of beer.  How's that for motivation.

3.  I've read NA say that Croatia made dives.  I'd like to point out that Pogatetz played dirty by tripping and face scratching Olic on at least two occasions.  As far as I recall, Olic was the only one who exaggerated his falls.  But really Pogatetz should have been red carded early in the game.  As far as Croatia's game is concerned, they played poorely.  There are two psychological reasons, in no order.  Firstly, they miss Eduardo.  Secondly, they have not won a Euro Cup game since 1996.  I can't say they'll rebound against Poland; only time will tell.  Besides, in finals Croatia has been playing conservatively for many tournaments now.  This is nothing new and I totally dislike this sort of plan.

EDIT: 4.  Just like last world cup, I expect Spain to dominate the group stage and then crash and burn.  Thought honestly who does not love watching them play?  So if they go to the finals, I won't be disappointed.


Predictions for tomorrow...

Portugal  2  0  Czech Rep.  (How bad can Milan Baros be if he is not being played?  I'm mean last Euro he wins the Golden Boot and this year we see nothing of him.  He's still young being in his late 20s).

Switzerland 1  1 Turkey  (Turkey should paly Hakan Sukur this time.  Switzerland is not a fast paced team like Portugal nor as aggressive, and Turkey surely needs Sukur's scoring abilities and experience).  This is my prediction is Sukur does not play.

Switzerland 0  2 Turkey (This is my prediction if Sukur does play).
 
Del Pierro should start the next match!

To be honest, 4 years ago I was not that negative about Greece. In my memory yesterday's game was much more cowardly than in the previous championship. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. I suspect that they'll play different next match.

Croatia disappointed me pretty much to be honest. Is this the same team beating England? A lot of theater, and some of their play reminded me of the Greeks, hanging back all the time, not doing very much. Pretty frustrating for the Austrians who surely deserved more than they did.

Yesterday I was totally wrong with my predictions. I guess Portugal should really beat the Czechs. I hope Switzerland will beat Turkey but that will be more difficult.
 
Forostar said:
Del Pierro should start the next match!

To be honest, 4 years ago I was not that negative about Greece. In my memory yesterday's game was much more cowardly than in the previous championship. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. I suspect that they'll play different next match.

Croatia disappointed me pretty much to be honest. Is this the same team beating England? A lot of theater, and some of their play reminded me of the Greeks, hanging back all the time, not doing very much. Pretty frustrating for the Austrians who surely deserved more than they did.

Yesterday I was totally wrong with my predictions. I guess Portugal should really beat the Czechs. I hope Switzerland will beat Turkey but that will be more difficult.
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Good for Italy.  I still think they have a chance of getting through.  A lot of it depends on Romania, who I think has better chances than France.  I just can't imagine Italians not making it to the knock-out round.  If they don't their coach is fired for sure.

Croatia's play was disappointing for me, too.  M. Petric scored the final goal against England and he was non-existant in his game against Austria.  He may not even play his next game, as a result.  In the last 25 minutes in the game against Austria, they fell into a defensive shell, which is a bad tactic.  They should know better and their captain Niko Kovac acknowledged as much after the game. 

Croatia and Greece aren't the only ones who've played the defensive shell game after an early lead.  Italy plays like this often.  It cost Italians the game against Croats in World Cup 2002 precisely because they tried to hold on to a lead by going into pure defensive mode.  If Croatia does not create more chance up front against the Germans, even if they lose, they're done for in this tournament.
 
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