Official Football Thread

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Well, I don't think the Greeks were that bad today. Of course the fact that they had to win the match to have a realistic chance of going through contributed to that. However i think the biggest contribution was Russia's gung-ho tactics. The Russians seemed to play with the philosophy that attack might not be the best defense, but we like attacking so we don't care  It made for a pretty entertaining match with the more positive side coming out victorious.

Now we have four teams through already. Portugal, Croatia, Holland and Spain are officially group winners.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Well, you don't have to mate, never mind, I guess we all have our different views and ideas.
I indeed haven't disputed that the Rogers goal was off-side. But I saw that as the only luck Poland had this tournament.

I decided to anyway.  This time I paused and re-paused.  I wish the screen was a bit bigger, but it could have easily been given to the Poles.  If one uses cut grass lines, not a perfect choice I know, the German player Klose does look off-side.  In which case, the result could be 1:0 instead of 2:0.  I think what makes it different is for the linesman's eye-sight is that he is right on the line in the Polish incident, but slightly closer towards the goal when the Germans did it.  So if that is the only reason, he made an error one way or the other.  Like I said the screen is too small to say whether or not either or both should be goals.  It would be useful to see another view of it, but at this point it does not matter.  I wonder what the linesman comment was, if anything.

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I've dug around and found a forgotten German chance.  This video is a highlight.  Gomez chance.  Skip to 1:40 to 2:20 minutes into the video.  This is an even closer example of the Polish disallowed goal.  The flag was never raised, but one wonders if it should have been.  The commentator certainly thought so.

EDIT: Here at 6:16 the lead up to Smolarek's disallowed goal clearly looks offside.

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I made them my favourite prior to the tournament for absolutely no real reason at all - and I'm sticking with it.

As good as any reason. 

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Now we have four teams through already. Portugal, Croatia, Holland and Spain are officially group winners.

I expect those four at the semis.

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The Greeks did not impress me though they did get the controversial offside treatment as NA noted.  The Spanish should have had a penalty at the end of the 1st half.

Just to reiterate, I've decided to go with Turkey tomorrow for reasons stated many posts ago.

 

[Forostar]

Thanks for that clip. It gives a better view, also way more highlights indeed. Still I can't say it's clearly off side. But even if it is: The problem for me is that the German 1st goal wasn't flagged for. That player was as least as off side. That's what I remember when I saw the match on TV.

But let's move on.

I just read this:

UEFA coefficient, not penalties, would decide a Austria-Poland tie

Austria and Poland could end up equal on points and goals after the final round of group B matches at Euro 2008, but unlike the Czech Republic and Turkey in group A will have nothing to do with a penalty shootout. Instead, the UEFA coefficient will be the deciding tiebreaker - with Poland ahead in this division.

The difference is that Austria and Poland don't play each other.

In group A, the Czechs and Turkey have three points each and an identical goal difference of 2-3 ahead of their meeting on Sunday which will decide the second quarter-final berth behind group winners Portugal.

If they draw, the place in the knockout stages will be decided in a shootout after the 90 minutes under a new rule from UEFA.

Austria and Poland, meanwhile don't play each other in the final group matches as they met Thursday for a 1-1 draw.

Both teams have one point ahead of Poland's match with group winners Croatia and Austria's showdown with Germany.

If both win they will be tied on four points and, depending on the results, can also be level on goals. Austria's goal difference is 1-2 and Poland's 1-3. If Poland win 2-0 and Austria 2-1, for example, they will be locked on 3-3 goals.

In this case - no winner in the match between the teams, same amount of goals scored and conceded, the UEFA coefficient serves as the tiebreaker. The coefficient is taken from qualifying matches for the 2006 World Cup and Euro 2008.

There Poland ranks ahead with 2.167, while Austria (automatically qualified as Euro host and only the 2006 World Cup qualifying used), ranks last on 1.500.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Interesting enough, but I don't think it will come to action. I think Germany will beat Austria. The Austrian team has shown that they can play good football, but not for very long ... against Poland, they were better for 15 minutes and then inferior for 75 minutes. In the end they were lucky to get a draw, even though they could've been 3-0 up after 15. I guess Poland will beat Croatia, because the Poles have to win and the Croats have absolutely nothing to play for. They win the group anyway. But I'm pretty sure Germany will take 2nd. A pity, I had chosen Poland as my favorites prior to the tournament, for no other reason than their colors (white shirt, red shorts - I think I've given the story before).

Tonight I hold the Czechs as favorites by a small margin. I just think they have looked stronger over the two first games than the Turks have. And they do have one of the world's top 5 goalkeepers in Petr Cech, that helps too.

 

[national acrobat]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about the fairness of the possible coefficient decision. Disregarding the question of whether Austria should have been allowed to host a tournament thus giving them automatic qualification, both teams are in the tournament and if they have done equally well over those three games, then past results shouldn't really enter into it. In my opinion, a coin toss would be fairer. Who's to say that if Austria had had to qualify for the tournament they wouldn't have won every game and earned a higher coefficient than Poland because of it?

It would be brilliant to see a penalty shoot-out decide the Turkey-Czech game though. Has this ever happened in a group stage match before?

 

[Albie]

The remaining quarter final placements will be made up of the following:

Russia will beat Sweden and claim the runners up slot.
Italy will draw with France and Romania will loose to the Dutch and force a penalty shoot out with Italy edging it.
The Czechs will beat Turkey and claim the third spot
And lastly, Germany will get at least the point they need to progress.

The quarters will see Germany beat Portugal
The Czechs will beat Croatia
The Dutch will beat Russia
And Italy will beat Spain

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

It would be brilliant to see a penalty shoot-out decide the Turkey-Czech game though. Has this ever happened in a group stage match before?

No, mainly because this is the first European Championships where this rule exists. Since the first 16-team EC in 1996, the coefficient has been the tie-breaker for cases where everything else is equal. But it hasn't come into use:

- In 1996, group A saw Holland and Scotland equal on points, equal on goal difference (-1) and with a draw between them (0-0). Holland had scored 3 goals and Scotland only 1, Holland went through. In group C, the Czech Republic and Italy both finished on 4 points, but the Czech Republic went through because they beat Italy 2-1.

- In 2000, Yugoslavia and Norway finished equal on 4 points, Yugoslavia went through because they had beaten us 1-0. (I'm still gutted by the fact that our coach, Nils Johan Semb, went for 0-0 in the final match - against Slovenia, who were last in the group, already out, and whom we had beaten 4-0 and 2-1 in the qualifiers! It's part of the story that Yugoslavia were in the lead with 3-1 and if they had kept the lead or managed 3-3, we would've been through with 0-0, but still  )

- In 2004, Portugal went through on more goals scored than Spain, they had 4-4 and Spain had 2-2. Perhaps the most dramatic group in the UEFA history was this tournament's group C, where Denmark, Sweden and Italy all finished on 5 points. Before the final matchday of the group, it was clear that if Italy won and Denmark drew with Sweden, the teams would be equal on points and the number of scored goals would be decisive. Italy had drawn 1-1 with Sweden and 0-0 with Denmark, meaning the following:

- If Denmark and Sweden played 0-0, Italy would be through with Sweden on more scored goals between the three
- If Denmark and Sweden played 1-1, Denmark and Italy would be equal in this "three team league" and the team's respective total goal differences would decide (in which case Italy would have to beat Bulgaria at least 3-1 to go through)
- If Denmark and Sweden played 2-2, Italy would be out no matter their result against Bulgaria. Of course, this was what happened ... no wonder why the Azzuri were fuming ...

Tonight I hope for a penalty shootout and I also hope Petr Cech does what he didn't in Moscow - save more penalties than his opponent 

 

[Genghis Khan]

The remaining quarter final placements will be made up of the following:

Russia will beat Sweden and claim the runners up slot.
Italy will draw with France and Romania will loose to the Dutch and force a penalty shoot out with Italy edging it.
The Czechs will beat Turkey and claim the third spot
And lastly, Germany will get at least the point they need to progress.

The quarters will see Germany beat Portugal
The Czechs will beat Croatia
The Dutch will beat Russia
And Italy will beat Spain

I'll reiterate what I've said so far.  This is my prediction.  I won't go into finals, yet.

Quarter-finals:
Portugal vs Germany
Croatia vs Turkey

Netherlands vs Sweden
Spain vs Italy


Semi-finals
Portugal vs Croatia
Netherlands vs Spain

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

I might as well throw in my five cents before I go and cook dinner.

Group A: Portugal and Czech Republic
Group B: Croatia and Germany
Group C: Holland and France
Group D: Spain and Sweden *

*) Depending on whether Zlatan Ibrahimovic can play or not. If they lose him in addition to the ones who are out already, their attacking strength is vanishing. They were certainly not very threatening in the 2nd half against Spain.

For the quarter-finals:

Portugal vs Germany: Deutschland.
Croatia vs Czech Republic: I go with Albie here.
Holland beat Sweden
France beat Spain. Seriously, can you imagine Spain keeping their heads cold and getting past the quarter-finals? I can't.

Holland vs France and Germany vs the Czech Republic in the semis? My tip is on Holland and Germany to go to the final and the Krauts winning the shit on penalties. After all, the Dutch (like the English) suck at penalties.

 

[Forostar]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about the fairness of the possible coefficient decision. Disregarding the question of whether Austria should have been allowed to host a tournament thus giving them automatic qualification, both teams are in the tournament and if they have done equally well over those three games, then past results shouldn't really enter into it. In my opinion, a coin toss would be fairer. Who's to say that if Austria had had to qualify for the tournament they wouldn't have won every game and earned a higher coefficient than Poland because of it?

I agree, then Austria will at least have a chance. They couldn't help it that they didn't play qualification matches for this tournament. Or another option could have been: only the qualifications for the World Cup 2006.

I hope for those penalties, always great to see!

Those penalties are a new rule, but this situation is new too (exactly the same goal saldi).

Would someone help me with the next question:

What if Germany draws against Austria and Poland wins with e.g. 2-0 or 3-0.
Both Germany and Poland will have the same amount of points: 4. What counts first: the amount of goals scored and conceded or the result of Germany-Poland?

I think it's the 2nd, but I wonder why that's more important than the goals. 

 

[Genghis Khan]

Croatia will sport changes in their last group game against Poland.  I thought this was interesting enough to post.

Soccer-Euro-Bilic to field experimental Croatia team v Poland

By Zoran Milosavljevic

BAD TATZMANNSDORF, June 15 (Reuters) - Croatia coach Slaven Bilic said on Sunday he was confident the makeshift team he will pick against Poland at Euro 2008 would live up to expectations.

Croatia have reached the quarter-finals as Group B winners and the Poles must win Monday's game in Klagenfurt by at least two clear goals to have a chance of joining them as runners-up.

"We have complete faith in the experimental side we will field because we play, practice and live as a compact unit so whoever is selected will have plenty of motivation," said Bilic.

"We also have to reward our fantastic fans for their support as I am sure they will turn up in numbers once again."

All the other sides in the group have a chance of facing Group A winners Portugal in the last eight with Germany needing just a draw against Austria in Vienna to go through although if the Germans lose second place goes to Poland or Austria. The 39-year-old Bilic has other concerns, though, and wants to save his best team for Friday's quarter-final in Vienna against the Group A runners-up -- Czech Republic or Turkey.

"It would be madness to field first-choice players who are on one yellow card and we also have a few with minor knocks and bruises who need a break," he said earlier this week.

CROATIAN PRIDE

"We have pride to play for, just like against England at Wembley, so we are completely determined to field a strong team aiming to continue our winning streak," he added.

He was referring to Croatia's 3-2 win in the qualifiers that stopped England reaching the finals even though Bilic's side had already won the group and had nothing concrete to play for.

The 39-year-old also said reserve centre-back and his former team mate Dario Simic would captain the team on Monday.

"Simic has been a backbone of the squad for a decade and it's only right that he leads the team on to the pitch against the Poles," Bilic told a news conference on Sunday.

Croatia won Group B by beating co-hosts Austria and tournament favourites Germany allowing Bilic, who played with 32-year-old Simic at Euro 96 and the 1998 World Cup, to rest some players against Poland and bring in the veteran defender.

Simic, who has 98 international caps, said he was looking forward to a milestone 100 appearances for his country.

"I hope I will put 100 matches in a Croatia shirt under my belt at this tournament, it would be a perfect farewell if I decide to retire from international football," he said.

"It's a real bonus that we reached the last eight with a match to spare because it means the first-choice players get a week's rest while others get a chance to make an impact."

(Editing by Ken Ferris)

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Guys do you know the website "Head to Head" where one can compare the playing history of two footballing nations?  I'm trying to learn about Croatia's history with Czech Rep. and Turkey.

 

[national acrobat]

Would someone help me with the next question:

What if Germany draws against Austria and Poland wins with e.g. 2-0 or 3-0.
Both Germany and Poland will have the same amount of points: 4. What counts first: the amount of goals scored and conceded or the result of Germany-Poland?

I think it's the 2nd, but I wonder why that's more important than the goals. 

I was wondering that too, as I've heard contrasting reports.

According to the official regulations on the Uefa website, if two teams are on equal points the following criteria are used in this order:
a) head-to-head result
b) goal difference
c) goals scored
d) coefficient from 2006 and 2008 qualifying
e) fair play conduct in the tournament
f) drawing of lots

THe only time this doesn't apply is when the two teams play each other in the last game and a)-c) apply, then penalties apply.

 

[Albie]

NA's right. Head to head will split the teams in the scenario Forostar stated. As I said in my post, Germany will get at least the point they need to progress. That is all they need to do.

And I'm with you Forostar, I love penalties as well. You just can't beat the drama of it and until football's governing bodies come up with a better solution to get a result, then it will stay. And this coming from an Englishman who has through the years suffered greatly at the hands of many a team that seem to be able to take the spot-kicks - when ours fail.

It all began in Italia '90.........

 

[Forostar]

Thanks for that info guys! Myself, I find the goal-thing (b) more important than (a). My father finds (a) more important. A bit difficult to explain now, so I won't begin with that.

@Genghis: I remember that I came up with such a website, but I can't find it now. :/

I found this though:

All time results between Croatia and Poland

            Croatia wins    draws    Poland wins 
Other                2          1             1
Total                2          1             1


2005/2006
International Croatia 0-1 Poland 03-06-2006
2002/2003
International Croatia 0-0 Poland 12-02-2003
1997/1998
International Croatia 4-1 Poland 22-04-1998
1995/1996
International Croatia 2-1 Poland 28-02-1996

So the last time that Croatia won, was 10 years ago. I don't really get the 03-06-2006 match. Was that a friendly match or something?

@Albie:
1990: Good old Stuart Pierce right? And Waddle? (or was that in 1994?) I'm sure that I spell their names wrong. I remember that Pierce had revenge some years later. Very emotional moment that was.

About tonight: It would be weird to see penalties without extra time!

@nush: I'm very curious what the result of that Croatian move will be!

 

[national acrobat]

Thanks for that info guys! Myself, I find the goal-thing (b) more important than (a). My father finds (a) more important. A bit difficult to explain now, so I won't begin with that.

There are some European leagues (Spain definitely, Italy too maybe) who use head-to-head results above goal-difference to split teams at the end of the season. As a league is about results over a whole season, I can't see how they can view a 1-0 win, say, for a team in one match more decisive than 20 goals better goal-difference.
It's a bit trickier to decide in my own head which method is better if only 3 games are played.

@Genghis: I remember that I came up with such a website, but I can't find it now. :/

I found this though:

So the last time that Croatia won, was 10 years ago. I don't really get the 03-06-2006 match. Was that a friendly match or something?

It looks like they were all friendlies, so tomorrow will be the first competitive meeting between the two.

@Albie:
1990: Good old Stuart Pierce right? And Waddle? (or was that in 1994?) I'm sure that I spell their names wrong. I remember that Pierce had revenge some years later. Very emotional moment that was.

'Psycho' Pearce - you don't see many England footballers now showing that sort of passion.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Thanks for that Foro.  I found this instead.

Croatia vs Poland
a) That last game was a friendly in Germany where Poland won 1:0.
b) In 2003, the game before, another friendly resulted in a scoreless draw.
c) They play together four times, Croatia won the first two matches.

Croatia vs Czech Rep.
a) They met once in a 1:1 draw.  The website stated the following.  Vague.

57. Casablanca (MAR)  12.12.1996.  Croatia - Czech Republic            1:1,4:1(p) Tournament

So the match took place in Marocco in some sort of a tournament that I haven't heard about.  I assume (p) is on penalties.

Croatia vs Turkey
a) They played together thrice.  Croatia won once and they drew the other two.
b)  Last game in 2004 they drew 2:2.
c) There was a minor tournament in Japan in 1997, where they tied 1:1.          62. Sendai (JAP)      12.06.1997.  Croatia - Turkey                    1:1        Tournament
d)  50. Nottingham (ENG)  11.06.1996.  Turkey - Croatia                    0:1        ECh
    This last match is the only match that was for anything of value, it seems.  I believe it was a qualifying game for World Cup '98.

 

[Forostar]

Poor Switzerland again. Another player heavily injured. A terrible foul for which the culprit only got a yellow card...!

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

And Jan Koller showed his class in the air with the 1-0 goal, Jan Koller is larger than you. But not larger than Adrian Smith 

 

[national acrobat]

Poor Switzerland again. Another player heavily injured. A terrible foul for which the culprit only got a yellow card...!

If you were watching Switzerland-Portugal, you were WATCHING THE WRONG GAME!! What an amazing end to a football match!

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

And Koller was surely not a class act when he went down in extra time after being pushed by the Turkish goalkeeper. Didier Drogba is proud of you, Mr. Koller! Still, the keeper acted like an idiot and the red card was correct.

And what a dramatic finish to the game. How often does Petr Cech do things like that? I think it seemed like the Czech team was gaining control towards the end, and then Cech took the role of Santa Claus and handed Turkey 2-2.

One can ask, what do the Turks do to the opposing goalkeepers? In the qualifiers, they had the 4-1 win against Greece followed by the 2-2 draw with Norway, where five (!) of the goals were due to crappy goalkeeping. And now this. Black magic?