Official Football Thread

Tough call to leave anyone of those out of that top ten, but you would have to make room for Robson and possibly Law. But from what a lot of people have said to me over the years (people that have seen him play) is that Duncan Edwards had the potential to be the greatest player of his time and they rate him highly - even though his life was cut short. They would have him in that top ten.
Forostar said:
And there are not many defenders in this list.
Click to expand...
True. But it might be due to the fact that people remember Man U more for their attacking than defending. That is not to say their defending is poor, just not looked at in the same way. A bit like me trying to recall defenders for the Dutch national team - I can name a load of midfield/attackers but defenders, if it was not for the picture in the 100K thread posted by EW I would have forgotten about Stam. After that .....
 
Forostar said:
Also Van der Sar I rank as a more important player than Ronaldo and Rooney. And there are not many defenders in this list.
Click to expand...

True. From the Ferguson era there are several defenders who deserve praise but don't get lots of  it - maybe Denis Irwin more than any other. Younger fans may think Patrice Evra is great - and he is - but Irwin played in that position for more than ten years and hardly made a mistake. He wasn't as spectacular as Evra can be when he goes forward, but he was solid. Rock solid. He was also a trustworthy penalty executor, and his free-kicks were better than anyone in the team spare Beckham. Steve Bruce should also get praise, as should Jaap Stam. And yet I haven't mentioned any defenders from the Busby era. for example Nobby Stiles (more a defensive midfielder than a true defender, though) or Bill Foulkes. Foulkes got more than 500 appearances for United.

I think Giggs has Cantona beaten on longevity. He was there when Cantona arrived, played with Cantona (those two were probably the greatest profiles in the 1993 team). Cantona was more charismatic than Giggs has ever been, of course, and his creativity on the pitch was key to making a title-winning team. However, Giggs has been there all the way when Ferguson has replaced player after player, for twenty years.
 
And he's not a Frenchy. ;)

Stam also crossed my mind as one of the best defenders of that era (when he played for Man U), but I admit that I do not remember enough about older defenders, so I might overlook someone more important. Too bad he left so soon (after a row with Ferguson, not?)
 
Forostar said:
And he's not a Frenchy. ;)
Click to expand...

But he's not English either, if you were trying to make a point out of that. But remember, many United fans, especially the local ones, don't care much for the England team. Thus they wouldn't hold any English player as a bigger club legend than a foreigner just because he was English.
 
You understood my hint well, but I see your point too.
But I also think that many of the voters went for current players, instead of ones from the past. Those people are fans now, and younger people are more often on internet.
 
I think you're right about that. It's the only reason why Rooney (with only one truly great season so far) is #10. He has the potential to become a legend, but then he needs to deliver for the club for years, and as stated by a guy in redcafe.net - "stop moaning every time his contract is up for renewal"  :D
 
Gary Neville quits man U immediately, after having played his whole career for the club: Since 1991 602(!) matches. Hardly any difference with Giggs.
Who knows he might have felt lack of appreciation. No one talks about him. It's always Giggs, Giggs, Giggs.
 
Has nothing to do with that. He's been out due to injuries for much of the last seasons, and finds himself as a third choice in his position now (behind Rafael and John O'Shea). I think he just realizes he doesn't have much more to give on the pitch.

Anyway, I applaud him for the service he has done for United as a player. His best seasons were in the last half of the 90s when he had a great cooperation with Beckham on the right side. The two of them contributed majorly in the 1999 treble winning team. His passion for United and for the game has been great all along, and  the fact that the fans of rival teams don't like him much is just a bonus  :D
 
I can agree. Still, I'd argue that Giggs has had more good seasons than Neville. And of course, when it comes to media and the general football audience, a skillful left-winger who scores goals and creates opportunities for others, will get more attention than a full-back. Neville has been there to do the job, Giggs has had a role in the team that makes him more likely to steal the headlines. And what you point out, could be said for many defenders ... just like we discussed a few posts ago, about that top 10 list (where there are no defenders)

It should also mentioned that Giggs has not been United's number one in terms of attention since his young days. From 1996 onwards, Beckham held that role (and Giggs himself has expressed his appreciation for that - he liked to get out of that "poster-boy" role back then). After 2003, Rooney and Ronaldo have been in that role. Giggs has had more of a background role in the 2000s except for the last couple of years. The reason why he gets more attention now, is probably him taking the record as the player with most games for United.

By the way: The direct reason for Neville to hang up his boots now is that he was not included in the squad United had to register for the knock-out stage of the Champions League.
 
For me Giggs was (and still is) a charismatic player who was often allowed to play a couple of minutes at the end of a match, while Neville played way more minutes in his whole career.
 
That's just plain wrong. Out of Giggs's 860 first team appearances, 748 have been from start. For the league, the numbers are 522 of 603. Even this season, he has started more times than he has come on from the bench.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/g/giggs_15722.stm

(Neville has started 574 of his 605 matches for United)

But please, don't try to make this a competition between Giggs and Neville. Both have had long and outstanding careers at United - and I can assure you that among those of us who support United, the appreciation for Neville is HUGE.
 
Gary Neville was one of the greatest right backs England ever had. Sorely missed.

Good luck to him. Apparently he is going into media - not sure as a pundit or not.
 
Exactly what did you get right? I can't see anywhere in your post that your point was that a higher percentage of Neville's appearances were started games, compared to Giggs. You wrote that Neville had played more minutes than Giggs in total. If you have something to back that up, fine - I'm a sucker for player trivia - but I doubt you'd find such statistics anywhere. "Total minutes played" isn't the most common thing to keep track on  :P

I wouldn't argue heavily on this anyway - it's more common for a full-back than a midfielder or striker to play the full 90 minutes, so for all I know, Neville's total amount of minutes played may be higher than for Giggs. Anyway, you wrote the following;

Forostar said:
For me Giggs was (and still is) a charismatic player who was often allowed to play a couple of minutes at the end of a match, while Neville played way more minutes in his whole career.
Click to expand...

The part in bold is pure nonsense - as indicated by the part of my previous post that you didn't quote. Giggs has never been a player who gets a few minutes at the end of a match. Either he has started (this is the case for the VAST majority of the games he has played), he has come on to change a game (Ferguson usually does that between minutes 60 and 75) or he has not come on at all. I should know it, I watch United regularly.
 
Neville did very well with a talent which was average compared to other players he progressed through with, but made up for it with dedication and hard work.

Something regarding the comparison between him and Giggs. When you're playing at right-back and your pace goes due to age, it's much more apparant and you can get caught out much more, as Neville's proved with a few dodgy appearances this season. Giggs is in a more beneficial position, having moved from winger to centre-mid when his pace decreased, and can still have a lot of influence on the game from there. All credit to him for making that change though.
 
I made a mistake, I thought those Neville stats were league stats. Sorry for the confusion. :/

Still, I really thought Neville played more minutes because in my memory, in the last decade or so, Giggs often was a subsitute, while Neville (in my experience, I have no stats) started often and played longer parts of matches, and was only bad in the last year or so.

Eddies Wingman said:
Some Neville praise from a maybe unexpected direction:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_6720271,00.html
Click to expand...

'Best English right-back'. That's well deserved criticism indeed.

"His record is down to intelligence and motivation - he is an example to players who are maybe less gifted then the Ryan Giggses or the David Beckhams.

"He still made a fantastic career because he is intelligent and highly motivated. He deserves great credit."

Hell yes!
 
kennyandkuyt.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top