Nightwish

I generally agree with @JudasMyGuide.

But I think there’s also a line between mindless/substance free album reviewing (most of what we’ve seen the past year) and something with more context, I.e. a discography discussion. I miss those and would participate in one for either Nightwish or Rush, time permitting. Either of the band threads would be appropriate for that. We used to do discography discussion threads which are also acceptable, but traditionally those have also contained information on the history and stories behind the albums/songs.

Regardless, it would be nice to see some actual music discussion on here. A discography run is one way to do that, but you have to leave enough time between albums for that discussion to take place. It might be more visible outside of the random review thread too, which seems like a dumping ground for review spam to me.
 
Doing reviews is something I do for my own sake, but I post them on the forum because I’m always interested in seeing what others think. If people want to use my reviews as a springboard to discuss the band, that’s always the best thing. So I guess I’ll just use this thread now. :P
 
The media pre-hype is always more or less praising, but I'm very excited about the upcoming album. It's a brilliant idea to have more of a "band record" with the first part and going all out with Tuomas' orchestra fantasies with the second. So far, I've enjoyed even his most pompous and "megalomaniac" outputs, but as the band chemistry seems to be... well, better than ever right now, it's absolutely great idea to really give some focus to that. EFMB did that to some extent and the mix supported it, so it's interesting to see where they'll go from there.

Looking forward.

As for their past discography, here's a little review & general thoughts thing before @Diesel 11 takes the stage. ;)

Part I (AFF-CC)

Angels Fall First
I've always had some hard time to properly dig into this one. It's pretty demo-ish record with some more "sophisticated" arrangements and bold ideas, mixed with talented yet sympathetically clumsy songwriting and lyrics. Not to even mention the parts sung by Tuomas. But altogether, it has some incomparable charm and truly great songs and ideas. Most of the stuff wouldn't quite feel right if they were recorded and performed by the band Nightwish has become - near middle-age band members and all, but it was pretty amazing to see Elvenpath and The Carpenter played live in 2018; they looked so thrilled and happy when playing Elvenpath. Floor beamed thorough the song when delivering those funny, yet a bit charming lyrics and everyone looked like they were genuinely having so much fun on stage. I mean, that's what you'd expect from any band, but it was one of the most charming live performances I've ever came across. Just pure smile. As for The Carpenter, there's not much that can be done for the odd & almost off pacing of the lyrics and all, but it sounded much better when sang by Troy and overall, came across as the definitive version of the song for me.

So, the debut album offers some of their most original and imaginative works, even if not quite fleshed out and thought as truly professional musicians would... and that's the defining trait of this particular record, sometimes for good, sometimes for... not so good, but altogether, it's definitely interesting. In addition to the mentioned two and one of the most well-known songs of the record like Beauty and the Beast, there's quality stuff like Know Why the Nightingale Sings or Tutankhamen that still holds up very well and together with Elvenpath and the Lappi/Lapland, kind of form the spine for the record.

It's a... good one. 3.5/5, maybe?

Oceanborn
Starovarius was a big thing back then, as you can tell from Oceanborn and the first two albums of Sonata Arctica, another Finnish band that was rather big back then. Granted, the power metal approach is executed very well. Stuff like Stargazers, Pharaoh Sails to Orion, Devil and the Deep Dark Ocean and Sacrament of Wilderness are all huge Nightwish classics. Anyway, it's a strong, unrelenting record. While I personally enjoy later live versions of the songs a bit more, especially the ones with Floor, the energy, passion and power of the original recording is unmatched by almost anything they've came up with since. Then again, they have also stepped into a whole different musical territory since, so comparisons are hard and not needed anyway. Oceanborn is, for my taste, perhaps a bit too unrelenting, even. The more dynamic later live versions and overall, a bit calmer approach appeals to me more and Tarja's pitch might be even too high at times, but there's no denying the energy and overall quality of the record. A damn strong metal album.

4.5/5?

Wishmaster
Stylistically very close to the Oceanborn, but the sharpest edges have been refined a little bit, arrangements, lyrics and vocal lines are all a bit more sophisticated and overall, it's a step into a bit more dark and mature direction. Some consider it's a bit downgraded Oceanborn, some think the more refined and "mature" approach make it even better than Oceanborn. Personally, I think it's a bit easier and more pleasant to listen, but admittedly it loses just a little bit of the edge it's predecessor had. It doesn't bring quite as much new to the table, but it uses the Oceanborn toolset to a maximum effect. Come Cover Me is one of the songs that all three - Tarja, Anette and Floor - have performed beautifully and it was nice to see it's return for Decades tour. Other big hits include Wishmaster and The Kinslayer - which I've never been too fond of - and the beutiful Deep Silent Complete and the epic, Dead Boy's Poem - both songs were among the highlights of the 2018 Decades tour. Two for Tragedy and Bare Grace Misery have become a bit overlooked over the years full of more recent hits, but altogether the song selection is damn strong one. Wanderlust and the album closer, FantasMic are both good, but the amount of equally great and better songs before and since has arguably driven that kind of quality songs into the halls of forgotten obscurities. While I don't think any of the songs is bad, Wishmaster could be absolutely killer 8-9 song record, but then again, it flows very well as it is and is full of creativity. What more can you ask for.

4/5?

Century Child
After Wishmaster and the Over the Hills and Far Away EP, Nightwish - now beefed up with Mr. Marco Hietala - started taking even bigger steps into more orchestral and symphonic direction, but in Century Child (and the following Once album) the orchestra is nowhere near as prominent element as it became not long after. While Oceanborn provided some great riffs and solos and Wishmaster gave a bit more balanced and tasteful guitar work, it might be this album that has some of the best guitar work by E. Vuorinen. Where as Wishmaster was definitely a bit darker than Oceanborn, it still had that Disney-ish vibe here and there. Century Child, however, sails darker waters basically thorough it's run time. The opening half of the album is ridiculously strong. A straight flush of to-be-Nighwish-classics in the form of Bless the Child, End of All Hope, Dead to the World, Ever Dream and Slaying the Dreamer might still be their strongest opening section ever. There's nothing wrong with the album versions, but I got to say, Floor absolutely destroyed every single one of these songs she has sung. Especially Slaying to Dreamer from 2018 might be one of the best ever Nightwish live performances. Anyway, back to the original record, the second half with Forever Yours, Ocean Soul, Feel for You and The Phantom of the Opera cover (from the musical, which kinda rips off Pink Floyd) does indeed pale in comparison to the brilliant opening batch, but they're not complete garbage. Especially Feel for You might the most memorable one and The Phantom of the Opera is a solid version of the song and the duet between Tarja and Marco works very well. The closer, Beauty of the Beast, is probably one of the most overlooked Nightwish epics. It's a song that I wish they'll play with Floor some day, since the vocal lines and the overall narrative would really benefit from her style and delivery. However, as it is, it's a brilliant three-part epic with strong musical narrative and it doesn't feel like a 10-minute-song. Wow.

So, all things considered, Century Child might be the "tightest" Nighwish album. While there's a a couple of quality drops in the middle, it holds together very well and avoids most of the typical Nightwish pitfalls, like being a bit too bloated etc. Then again, if 10th Man Down from the Over the Hills... EP switched places with, say, Forever Yours.... Oh well, not sure if it'd fit that well - even if it's one of their strongest songs (and yes, another one that Floor lifted to another level in 2018 :D ). Anyway, Century Child is a great record with a strong selection of tracks you could throw into any Nightwish live set.

I'd say it's 4/5 at least.
 
No idea, but I’ll see if I can find out for you.
Statement from the person who ran it (found via the NightDreamers’ Reacticide discord server):

Dear everyone
It is with some sad news I announce the Nightwish official forums will not be returning. Today I was contacted by Jukka who informed me they no longer have need for forums, discord and no longer wish the fan clubs to no longer have any coordination from the bands side.
After all the work to secure new servers and recover data was sadly in vein.
An end of an era for myself after working with the band for 10 years so I’m extremely sad to see all the had work come to an end.
Thank you for everyone’s support with the community and I hope everyone enjoys the album and things to come.

Carol
 
Statement from the person who ran it (found via the NightDreamers’ Reacticide discord server):

Dear everyone
It is with some sad news I announce the Nightwish official forums will not be returning. Today I was contacted by Jukka who informed me they no longer have need for forums, discord and no longer wish the fan clubs to no longer have any coordination from the bands side.
After all the work to secure new servers and recover data was sadly in vein.
An end of an era for myself after working with the band for 10 years so I’m extremely sad to see all the had work come to an end.
Thank you for everyone’s support with the community and I hope everyone enjoys the album and things to come.

Carol

Thanks :notworthy:
 
Statement from the person who ran it (found via the NightDreamers’ Reacticide discord server):

Dear everyone
It is with some sad news I announce the Nightwish official forums will not be returning. Today I was contacted by Jukka who informed me they no longer have need for forums, discord and no longer wish the fan clubs to no longer have any coordination from the bands side.
After all the work to secure new servers and recover data was sadly in vein.
An end of an era for myself after working with the band for 10 years so I’m extremely sad to see all the had work come to an end.
Thank you for everyone’s support with the community and I hope everyone enjoys the album and things to come.

Carol
Seems foolish to me. "Go fuck yourselves, fans."
 
Seems foolish to me. "Go fuck yourselves, fans."
Agreed. I believe Tuomas has said before that he doesn’t understand the idea of “fandom” and would rather people focus on the songs themselves. Not the best mindset to have. I get what he’s saying, but it’s missing the point.
 
Angels Fall First (1997)

angelsfallfirst1.png


1. Elvenpath - There's such a lot to like about Nightwish right from the first song on the first album. That rising opening with Tarja's spoken word intro holds a lot of charm and is a great way to lead into Tuomas's synth riff backed in power by Emppu's guitar. The song's lyrics are quite pedestrian (never resurrect "Home Gnome", please and thank you), but Tarja's delivery (pronouncing "path" as "bath" and "swords" as "swerds") is incredibly endearing, giving it a more fantastical vibe. I also like the spoken word piece, which helps sell the topic a bit more. It does peter out towards the end, but never overstays its welcome. There's a lot that I like about this song, and it is the best on the album, but with every subsequent release it's become overshadowed by better music, better lyrics, and better performances. Still, I dig it. 7/10

2. Beauty And The Beast - A swelling of synths to kick off the album's second-longest track before the rest of the band kicks in. There's some interesting stuff going on musically in the intro that I like. At one point, the band seems to be at odds with each other before ironing it out - quite intentional as it gives off a pretty cool vibe. The song switches up into the verse, as Tuomas takes a turn at the mic. It's not actually bad, personally my favorite of his singing pieces on the album. The issue really lies in how weak he sounds, especially when singing with Tarja, who sings the second half of the two verse sections and really takes the song to another level. Then as it starts to get interesting, it stops and we're met with a sinister spoken piece before the bridge, which, sadly, isn't as interesting as the verse was. Luckily the outro is quite nice, with Tarja vocalizing over the music. Most of this album is hard to rate, and this is no exception. After giving it much thought, I think I like it enough to put it at about the same level as "Elvenpath". Definitely pales in comparison to the later "Beauty Of The Beast", but it's got a lot to enjoy all the same. 7/10

3. The Carpenter - Slowly we wade into the third track on the album, which also served as the single from it. The verses here are quite nice. Tuomas uses his limited singing ability to bring at least some emotion into it. The chorus though - definitely one of the weirdest moments in the entire Nightwish discography. The way Tuomas's and Tarja's voices link up together in their duet is just unnatural. I definitely don't love it. I don't necessarily hate it either, though. In fact, I quite like the chorus, but damn, it would be so much better if it was re-recorded with a better male singer, say, Marco or Troy. As for the rest of the song, the bridge is fine but the instrumental and outro are a bit boring, and that's what tips the scale for me here in assigning the score. It's not a bad song, but it's only slightly above the average mark. 6/10

4. Astral Romance - Interesting guitar melody to open with before synths kick in. Things take a leap forward with the verse, as Tarja leads on the listener on one of the outstanding verses on the whole album. There's a lot of atmosphere on display there. The switch up with her vocalizing is less successful, however, particularly since Tuomas starts singing over top of it. His last note on that piece is kinda cool but otherwise it's definitely his worst moment on the album. He sounds quite off on most of it and I'm glad that it's his last singing piece on the album. There's some good music in the instrumental / outro section, particularly from the guitar department, but ultimately aside from the verse I don't find this to be a very memorable song. Still enough to like that gives it an above average rating. 6/10

5. Angels Fall First - The closest song to the band's roots as an acoustic project, the title track utilizes quietness to back the lyrics... which, by the way, are fantastic. The chorus in particularly is beautiful. "Bury my dreams, dig up my sorrows, oh Lord why the angels fall first..." Such a gorgeously sad line from the same writer who four songs ago was penning tales about broomsticks and rings. Unfortunately for this one, the lyrics seem to have gotten more attention than the music, which does a good job at backing the lyrics and not much else. In addition, I'm not a terrible fan of how the song ends, which leads to another above average rating from me. 6/10

6. Tutankhamen - Swirling synths lead us into Egypt as we enter the sacred pyramids of Tutankhamen. And this song is actually quite catchy. That said, the lyrics! "We'll breed to fill all earth," "milk you cascaded"... wow, is this cheesily sexual or what? I do like the line about Carter opening the tomb, but otherwise it's quite a funny little song. The music is quite good, however, which actually helps make it a better song than the previous three, in my opinion. In the end I can overlook the cheesiness here enough to actually quite enjoy hearing it and bopping along as we pass through the Stargate. A fun song for sure, just not particularly deep. 7/10

7. Nymphomaniac Fantasia - Acoustics return to open up this song, the second in a duo of sexually-driven numbers. It's not the most exciting of intros, but the synth riff that it leads to is actually one of my favorites on the whole album. Incredibly catchy stuff. The verse is solid, not the best lyrics ("lick my deepest") but Tarja does another fantastic job, particularly on the line "hear the starry choir". It sort of quiets down for a bit before Tarja gets another spoken word piece. And Jesus, she sounds absolutely venomous in her delivery of "deeper shall be the wound between your legs!" Holy shit. I don't think this is one of the album's most popular songs, but I find it to be its hidden gem of sorts. Definitely a fave from it. 7/10

8. Know Why The Nightingale Sings - Ooh, nice drum opening to this one! And then the riff we enter, this time driven by the guitars... I dig it. One of the best on the album. The verse is very fantastical in both lyrics and in composition. After a bridge piece of sorts we're even treated to a guitar solo and more Tarja vocalizings, before given a fake-out ending as the keyboard gets center stage till the outro. This is the shortest song on the album, and there's not a whole lot to it, but what is on display here though is pretty sweet. 7/10

9. Lappi (Lapland):

I. Erämaajärvi - And now we enter the wintry Finnish region known as Lapland, lead in by acoustic guitars once more. I always love when Nightwish write in Finnish, which is an incredibly beautiful-sounding language, I find. Tarja's vocals on this first stab at that make it a pretty mesmerizing piece. Definitely the best part of the overall song.

II. Witchdrums - We next head into the atmospheric second part of the song. There's some nice drumwork here but otherwise little else of note.

III. This Moment Is Eternity - The rise into this piece feels like an awakening in a frozen forest. I don't find it terribly interesting, however, outside of Jukka's drumming. The piano-lead Disney-esque part that follows feels incredibly tame as well. Meh.

IV. Etiäinen - And then the two and a half minute outro section featuring more acoustic guitar and some Tarja vocals over top. Honestly, a boring way to end a mostly boring song.

This nine minute epic mostly succeeds in bringing to life the images it attempts to present, but as a song it's pretty average. I never yearn to return to it and it's honestly the low point of the album. Which kinda sucks since it's the album's closer, too, but oh well. Tuomas's epics would get much better on albums to come. An interesting first attempt, but a very average one, unfortunately. 5/10

So that's where it all began. Angels Fall First is a bit of a hard first listen, but there's some good music to be found within if you're patient in giving it the spins it honestly deserves. It's a nice little record to play now and again, just completely overshadowed by the rest of the band's discography. That's not to say it's even their worst album, because there's at least one other that could vie for that position. In the end, though, it's definitely their simplest and tamest. Already with the next record - recorded just a year later - things get bigger, better, and more interesting. Overall, I like to throw this one on, but not for the thrills that most Nightwish albums hold within them. This one's really just easy listening.

Average: 64%
 
Good write-up there! I agree about many things there and you sum up the nature of the album very well.

I recommend checking out the recent "Live in Buenos Aires" live versions of AFF songs you haven't already done so - there's Troys take on The Carpenter. :)
 
I recommend checking out the recent "Live in Buenos Aires" live versions of AFF songs you haven't already done so - there's Troys take on The Carpenter. :)
I actually saw the entire concert already. I’m glad they dragged out the old songs and it’s a really great setlist. The version there of “The Carpenter” is definitely better vocally, but I think the charm of the original recording is a bit more interesting as far as repeated listenings go. It’s mostly the instrumental section being bland to my ears that drove the rating down a notch. Still dig the live version, mind you. It’s a nice part of a really well assembled setlist.
 
Alright, onwards we go!

Once
As a natural continuity for Century Child, the Once is another step into more prominent presence for the orchestra. The band itself is still very present, when compared to the Imaginaerum for example, with several great riffs and solos around. Century Child was a rather consistent album both quality- and themewise, with only a little drop in overall quality in the middle, and holding the grim yet hopeful atmosphere thorough. Once is a bit more adventurous record, with many different arrangements and styles thrown in together. The opening section is, again, pretty straightforward and filled with to-be-if-not-already Nightwish classics/fan favourites: Dark Chest of Wonders is a brilliant opener for both, this record and also various concert since, Wish I Had an Angel, with the unashamed disco beat, is one of their biggest hits, and the same goes for Nemo too. They've become thetroopers for Nightwish - a bit tired and overplayed, but hard to drop, at least all of them together. Regardless, they're great songs and set up the album very well, even if they do not blend together quite as brilliantly as the Century Child openers did.

Planet Hell has always been one of my favourite Nightwish songs and I absolutely loved Floor's take on it during 2012 Imaginaerum tour; I hope they'll return it to set one day. Anette, and of course, Tarja did great job with it too, giving a brilliant contrast to Marco's strong presence in this one. Creek Mary's Blood (featuring John Two-Hawks!) is a bold attempt and fortunately it goes down very well, giving the album some nice depth after pretty aggressive start. The Siren is a return to the unrelenting mood of the opening tracks; there's a strong "eastern motif" and a brilliant chorus, making this one a solid "Nightwish rocker", very much in vein with Dark Chest of Wonders, Wishmaster, Dead to the World etc. Among the huge bunch of some of the most well-known Nightwish songs this record has and more or less widely acknowledged The Siren and Planet Hell, Dead Gardens is bit of an "drop-out" here. It's basically about "writer's block" and the lyrics share a bit of a thematical conncetion with songs like Dead to the World. If Romanticide wasn't featured in the live release Showtime, Storytime, it's general status would probably be the very same; good, but nothing you'd terribly miss if it was taken away.

That's not the case with Ghost Love Score, which has become the most precious Nightwish song for many. Brilliant orchestral arrangment blends in perfectly with the dynamic playing by the band and Tarja does give one of her best vocal performances here.

Kuolema Tekee Taiteilijan is bit... or actually quite BIG of an oddity here. One of the less-bombastic orchestral arrangements on the record and beautifully sung by Tarja - in Finnish. It's definitely something very different, melancholic and peaceful after the gigantic Ghost Love Score and the album closer, Higher Than Hope - that has very sad backstory - follows very much in the same vein.

Altogether, Once is a journey. It's not quite as thematically consistent as it's predecessor, but then again, it's more adventurous and varying also dodges the small drops in overall quality a bit better. Granted, it's much bolder and pompous than any Nightwish record before it, but it does balance itself out very well, with providing some of their best and most dynamic songs. On both, the epic and more straightforward end.

Being Tarja's last record with this band, it's also worth pointing out that it also mirrors the evolution of her voice and the band very well. Once offers probably the best and most balanced use of her vocals.

It's a bit much to take in and there are one or two moments where Tuomas really goes... well, all the way to the bold, pompous and even corny end of things, but all things considered, Once is also one of their most comprehensive outputs when it comes to defining the band.

4/5?

Dark Passion Play


Tarja out, Anette in. If Once was a bit pompous at times, Dark Passion Play takes one or two steps even further at times, but also provides some of their most "mature" works. The opening track, The Poet and the Pendulum, goes down as one of the very best songs by the band. Edgar Allan Poe meets Tuomas Holopainen... and it's truly balancing on the razor's edge whether the self-loathing and overall gloominess goes a bit too far to be not corny, but somehow - and that's one of the most defining traits of this band - they pull it off.

Bye Bye Beautiful is... well, sort of farewell for Tarja, in the first place, and not too great stylistic continuation of Wish I Had an Angel, but yeah, it works. Amaranth is another "poppy" song, but much more in the lines of ABBA, rather than eurodance. And as far as ABBA Metal goes, it's a very good song - I've always loved the melodies and the dynamic structure of it, even if the vocal lines are (again) a bit odd when listening more closely. Tuomas really shares this trait with Mr. Harris, haha. Marco Hietala gets two big standouts here: the heavy Master Passion Greed and the beautiful The Islander, showcasing two very different sides of his vocal - and with the latter, also songwriting - mastery. Rest of the middle-section is filled with solid outputs like Cadance of Her Last Breath and especially Sahara, which is a perfect match for Anette's tone. Eva is a good ballad that has kind of fallen into shadow, but it's a good performance by Anette and would probably stand out a bit more within a bit less crowded record. Whoever Brings the Night, however, is far from their best outputs and For the Heart I Once Had, it all of it's catchy "poppiness" isn't exactly too great either, but I do like it's softness and - cheap or not - catchiness. The instrumental Last of the Wilds is a very good one, and back then, this particular folk melody wasn't as overused by the band quite as much as it would be in the following years... :p

7 Days to the Wolves and Meadows of Heaven close the album with a nice contrast between each other. The album opener and closer are probably the most emotional songs on the record, and the ride in between is even more adventurous than what Once provided. Once again, there's small pitfalls here and there and arguably the record would blend together a bit better with dropping one or two tunes; however, there's really not too much to complain about when the album provides a couple of definite discography highlights, big bunch of gems like Sahara, 7 Days to the Wolves and The Islander and the rest of the songs, even the weaker ones support the album flow and structure rather perfectly. The closer, Meadows of Heaven, might not be individually among their strongest songs, but as a closer for this record, it really shines with beautiful melodies and airy, etheric arrangement with some gospel elements thrown in.

The use of orchestra is possibly even more creative than on Once and Anette does fairly good job here. She supports the songs well enough, but you can tell that they weren't written specifically for her. Songs requiring softer vocals, such as Eva and Meadows of Heaven are among her best performances from her time with the band, and as mentioned, her tone fits Sahara very well and the ABBA-esque delivery supports songs like Amaranth and For the Heart I Once Had brilliantly, making this a very successful debut for her - even if things didn't eventually work out live quite as well.

4.5/5
 
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Why, it's quite fine you liked it, but "great"? Really? I admit I sputtered some random infatuated sentiments back when it came out, but I'm definitely not able to get back there now. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not a bad album and I would still give it a spin anytime, in fact, when I look at the tracklist I realise I mostly like most of the songs... but... but...
Everything Floor touches turns to gold. She could make all of 'St. Anger' sound amazing.
Floor is underutilised [on 'Endless Forms Most Beautiful']
Well now Tommy has had a few years working with her he'll be able to make the most of her talents. :)
Also I’m planning on reviewing the Nightwish discography in the run-up to the release of the album. Would it be better to do it in this thread, to drum up discussion as Wiz said last year, or in the random album reviews thread, so that Wiz needn’t read them if he doesn’t want to?
In my particular case, I figured carpet bombing the Rush thread with 19 album reviews in a row might be annoying to people trying to have other conversations there, so I just dropped a message in that thread with a link to the random review thread for anyone who might be interested. In other cases where I’ve done a small number of reviews I’ve done them directly in the band thread. I could see an argument either way.
If you guys are actually going to review albums properly then I see no problem with you writing reviews in the band-specific thread. But please don't describe the song structures. It doesn't add anything. If all you have to say is "This song has a solid riff and an amazing chorus. 7/10" then please don't bother at all.
So according to the Finnish version of their news article (click) being put through Google Translate, “All The Works Of Nature Which Adorn The World” is one giant instrumental.

Now that’s something completely new. Very curious as to how it works. Tuomas’s dreams of writing a film score finally realized... but as a Nightwish song?
As I'm not a massive fan of instrumentals I won't spend too much time listening to that one. There's no need to stoke Tommy's ego any further.
 
If you guys are actually going to review albums properly then I see no problem with you writing reviews in the band-specific thread. But please don't describe the song structures. It doesn't add anything. If all you have to say is "This song has a solid riff and an amazing chorus. 7/10" then please don't bother at all.
Is the AFF review acceptable to your cultured palette?
 
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