Nicko McBrain
- Thread starter Forostar
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D
Deleted member 7164
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Where exactly is Dave so prominent and irreplaceable in If Eternity Should Fail? Or in Wicker Man, radio edit?
You can apply this to all three of them.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Maiden is at this point truly the sum of its parts, as an entity. It doesn't mean nobody else can objectively fill in - I think Nicko could be replaced as well, Richie Faulkner would have been an interesting fit guitarist wise too, but I don't think Iron Maiden as a band would like to give it a shot, thus everyone is irreplacable. Only lineup change I could see happening is them continuing with two guitarists.
Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
You have a point. He can write a more rock type of song then... in the vein of Purple, Rainbow... (in the style of his favorite bands).
Dave is essential to the Maiden style - it's not about individual songs.
The current lineup of six members is the perfect puzzle of Maiden and every member is irreplaceable.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Overall fanboyism displayed by several members here doesn't automatically provide an argument to what I said. Like Yax said, any of the three individual guitarists is replaceable. We're not talking now, when any sort of change will be waged against the available 'career time', I specifically stated 10 years ago because the weight was not there then. If something went wrong with one of the members in 2007, Maiden would have survived another change without issues.
Change of a drummer would require a routine change for Steve Harris in the studio. I don't need to put proof here to say that you can see Steve and Nicko as a single thing because of the synergy they had for the last almost 40 years, and the working relationship. Out of any Maiden members, these are the guys that spend most time together in between them in the studio. Bruce might work with Janick, Steve might work with Dave. But it's Nicko and Steve that work alone together each song, since 1983.
So whatever you think about your favorite guitarist, no, the absence of him in Maiden would not affect Harris and the Maiden creative process as nearly as if Nicko were gone.
So if his style is not discernible in those songs, not even while listening to guitar stems where available like for Wicker Man, does that make those songs "not Iron Maiden style".
Had Maiden been fronted by Bruce from the beginning people would be saying the same shit in 1993 (a lot of them did actually). Look how easily he got replaced.
Change of a drummer would require a routine change for Steve Harris in the studio. I don't need to put proof here to say that you can see Steve and Nicko as a single thing because of the synergy they had for the last almost 40 years, and the working relationship. Out of any Maiden members, these are the guys that spend most time together in between them in the studio. Bruce might work with Janick, Steve might work with Dave. But it's Nicko and Steve that work alone together each song, since 1983.
So whatever you think about your favorite guitarist, no, the absence of him in Maiden would not affect Harris and the Maiden creative process as nearly as if Nicko were gone.
So if his style is not discernible in those songs, not even while listening to guitar stems where available like for Wicker Man, does that make those songs "not Iron Maiden style".
Had Maiden been fronted by Bruce from the beginning people would be saying the same shit in 1993 (a lot of them did actually). Look how easily he got replaced.
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
You're undermining your entire argument. Bruce leaving at that point damn near killed the band. I don't care what you think about Blaze as a singer or performer, that's fact. The immediate and massive rejuvenation in 1999 alone is proof of this.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
'Easily' is meant to be cynical over there. It impacted the band big time, but Harris was willing to go through. Which is my argument.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
What I wrote was not understood correctly, I'll still address this for the sake of discussion.
I don't think Blaze is anywhere near the caliber required for fronting Iron Maiden. That's an opinion that we certainly share. These are some facts though : in 1998, Bruce's South American tour had the overall attendance of a single Iron Maiden 1998 South American gig. Maiden in 1999 did not play gigs of this size. Also Maiden's South American culmination of Rock in Rio came from playing bigger and bigger gigs during the 90s.
The perception of the situation is that Maiden was going lower and lower until 1999 when "reunion" happened and then everything went back to normal. That perception is incorrect.
Dickinson (and Smith) are responsible for not only retaining that positive momentum but giving it a big push too. But it was there before they rejoined.
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Bruce did not play a single show in South America in 1998, did he?
Whilst Maiden in 1998 might have done well in some territories (South America and some European countries), they bombed in others (North America - the biggest market in the world - and the UK among others). They were a sinking ship and it was painful to witness that as a fan.
Thankfully things changed in 1999 and they started to recover, although it took some time to get back where they belong, especially in the USA.
Magnus
currently discounted
Spoken like a true bass player.
Respect!
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
This is not only wrong but trying to find a good way to snark about how wrong your assertion is has lead me down a rabbit hole of falsehoods. As @GhostofCain above mentioned, Bruce didn't play a single gig in South America in '98. I won't even bother to look up attendance figures for '97 because it's such a crapshoot and utterly irrelevant anyway. He literally lamented not having a record company in South America on one of the more notorious gigs from that tour, so it's a completely unfair comparison. People won't show up to your gig if they don't know you exist.
The point is simple: Maiden was thoroughly uncool and barely pulling in an audience in major markets like the US and the UK in the 90s after Bruce left. Even in the markets they were doing well (some parts of Europe) the band was considered thoroughly out of style and lacking a proper frontman sure didn't help matters. It took them a lot of work after that, sure, but once they got their frontman back, suddenly the band's stocks shot right up and they could reasonably pretend to be relevant again for long enough to actually make that true.
Any statistics about how Bruce's solo career never took off doesn't matter because we know how it all played out in the end. Maiden didn't immediately jump back to playing big venues in the US, but they sure as shit did better than previously on attendance and they propelled that success into doing a full tour a year later. Not to mention that their South American success only kept growing with the return of the "classic" lineup. Maiden as fronted by Blaze could never have headlined Rock in Rio '01. Not in a million years.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Typo. 1999. It should have been obvious to you that I'm talking about TCW. This doesn't matter anyways.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I agree with the rest of your sentiments here, but not really with this one. See: "With You Again" by Psycho Motel. Dave guests on the song, but it doesn't sound like Maiden, it sounds like Psycho Motel.
I think the thing about the three amigos is that they're all incredibly talented guitarists who can adapt to new styles (with H as most versatile and Dave as least). I think that if Dave were to play on a solo Bruce album, it'd sound like solo Bruce with Dave Murray, not as Maiden-esque solo Bruce. The Maiden sound, to me, is two / three guitarists playing off of each other. So even though Dave may be the second most interwoven piece of the Maiden DNA, by himself it's not going to be quite the same. So basically, they could make it work, IMO.
Black Abyss Babe
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold
I understand what you're saying but I don't agree; not quite, and here's why:
Dave, so far as I am aware, only plays one solo on that Psycho Motel song and really you can hear immediately the moment he appears. The whole song may not sound Maiden-esque but his solo does. In fact (from my observation at least) the whole point of those sort of "cameo" type guest appearances is they are supposed to be obvious. Adrian himself has said "if you hear Dave playing, you know it’s Iron Maiden straight away" and Janick has said "Dave plays one note and you know it's him". I never really understood what people meant by "Dave has the signature Maiden guitar sound", having heard basically nothing of him playing outside Maiden to know which part of the sound was him, until I heard "With You Again". Then I understood straight away.
So yes, Dave could appear as a guest and I'm sure we'd all cheer his appearance but I doubt Bruce would include him as a full member of the "house band".
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Absolutely. Dave's solos are cemented deeply in Maiden's sound (it's on every record!) and thus that association is unavoidable in other people their works. Adrian's solo albums do not sound a bit like Maiden, which can help to set his guitar playing more apart. Bruce's albums with Adrian did not deviate that much from Maiden's style, and yes Adrian is on it as well, which helps. But I'm sure the direction was already chosen before H joined.
Not unimportant: Bruce also picked Adrian as a good (band)mate (who had no better things to do) and songwriter (although that input should not be overestimated, when you look at the credits). I'm not sure if Dave and Bruce are good mates, songwriting wise there is no bond anymore since he left the band in 1993. Come to think of it, I've never seen the two together*, unless with other band members, or as credits in No Prayer and FOTD CD booklets. Since his return to 1999 Bruce has always been connected to the other songwriters / guys in the band. Maybe I'm seeing too much in this, but to me a Dave invite on a Bruce album (if he ever releases one) would be a huge surprise.
EDIT:
*Okay, this is a good exception and it looks like it is a very comfortable gathering. 1988 is a long time ago, though. ;--)
Not unimportant: Bruce also picked Adrian as a good (band)mate (who had no better things to do) and songwriter (although that input should not be overestimated, when you look at the credits). I'm not sure if Dave and Bruce are good mates, songwriting wise there is no bond anymore since he left the band in 1993. Come to think of it, I've never seen the two together*, unless with other band members, or as credits in No Prayer and FOTD CD booklets. Since his return to 1999 Bruce has always been connected to the other songwriters / guys in the band. Maybe I'm seeing too much in this, but to me a Dave invite on a Bruce album (if he ever releases one) would be a huge surprise.
EDIT:
*Okay, this is a good exception and it looks like it is a very comfortable gathering. 1988 is a long time ago, though. ;--)
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Ok, suddenly I realize this is the Nicko McBrain topic? What??
Alright then this: in the last few years Nicko says he met Maiden in 1979, in relation to Maiden's first gig on the European mainland (Belgium).
He is wrong. He met Maiden in 1980. The gig was in 1980.
Alright then this: in the last few years Nicko says he met Maiden in 1979, in relation to Maiden's first gig on the European mainland (Belgium).
He is wrong. He met Maiden in 1980. The gig was in 1980.
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Kalata
Out of the Silent Planet
^ This. He didn't write the song (maybe that's why it doesn't sound like Maiden), but his solo is unmistakable Dave Murray.
Spot on.
Songs credited only to Murray/Dickinson (or vice versa): ''Public Enema Number One, ''Chains Of Misery'' and ''Judas Be My Guide''.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Well, two out of three ain’t bad…
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Probably would not have happened if Adrian was there. Thanks Adrian, for not being there or else we would not have songs like Judas or Public Enema. And Janick Gers.
The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
It looks that has been Nicko's birthday so Happy birthday to you Nicko. Never is too late 