Montsegur

How good is Montsegur on a scale 1-10?


  • Total voters
    53

Albie

Keeping an open eye on the Weeping Angels.
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

I think most of us got this right - it's not a good track and certainly not overrated (in my opinion). Some good moments in it but does not get a score of more than 6 from me.
 

Wyrdskein

Invader
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

I give it an 8. I like the verses and the chorus, and musically its up there, just not right at the top.
 

Vap

Ancient Mariner
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

The happy feel to this song is rather annoying, but it's still a good song and deserves a 9.
 

Donner

Ancient Mariner
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

Heavy intro that's heavily borrowed from Fallen Angel.  I love the lyrics but the happy bits just don't blend well with the heavier parts.  The solo reminds me very much of Jan's solo in Born In '58.  7/10
 

Chartwell

Trooper
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

The Mid-Distance Runner said:
I agree wholeheartedly with everything Chartwel says yet I can only rate the song a 7. Go figure.
I think it gets a two point bonus from me for being history-themed... that and war will get extra points every time  :D
 

Night Prowler

Customer Deathcycle Manager
Staff member
NightProwler666 said:
This song is IMO similar in terms of quality and a "role" in the album as The Fallen Angel on BNW, The Pilgrim on AMOL&D and Mother Of Mercy on TFF. Short 4-5 minute rockers, very similar in structure.

Rating later...
8/10.
 

national acrobat

Ancient Mariner
I find this track reminiscent of The Fallen Angel, and I'm no great fan of either song. Still waiting for it to grow significantly on me. 4/10
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

Donner said:
The solo reminds me very much of Jan's solo in Born In '58.  7/10
Late reaction, but indeed! You mean the harmony. Well, whatever we call it, it sounds about the same as the lead in Born '58. I thought the same when preparing for this ranking (before reading your post).
 

Fugazi

Alchemist
I always love Maiden's uptempo songs and this song is no exception, love Bruce's voice on this one, great rocker, 8/10.
 

Dr. Eddies Wingman

Brighter than thousand_suns
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur

Perun said:
It is very heavy, which does the song good, and I think the lyrics are pretty good too. I understand why people think this sounds 'happy', but to me personally, it rather sounds angry, disgusted and frustrated, which does the lyrics and topic justice. I never really felt this song is special, but it has grown on me. A high 6/10.
This "happy" feel is mostly present in the "as we kill them all" post-chorus, and at that point it feels really out of place. For the rest, I agree with you. The chorus proper, for example, sounds angry.

The subject matter is very dark, but also interesting in its own right. Musically, the song is perhaps not that special, but still good - bordering between 7 and 8. Let's say 7.
 

Brigantium

Paladin of Voltron
Staff member
I'd ideally like to give this an 8.5 out of 10 (and I don't give 10s to anything). It's one of my favourite Maiden songs, partly because of the sheer energy, and partly because I've studied Cathar/Occitan society, the Albigensian Crusade and medieval history in general and I'm fascinated by it.

The ‘happy’ or lighthearted parts, I agree, end up detracting from the song, I'd rather they were shorter. The ending, in particular, seems over-cheerful, given the subject matter. However, I don't see it as being entirely out of context in this song.

It suggests a fanfare of triumph and glory to me. I've no idea if this is intentional, or just something I get out of it. The triumph in question could be either the 'victory' of the Crusaders in slaughtering the Cathars, supposedly in the name of God, or the martyrdom of the Cathars, staying true to their religion but taking all their followers with them to a horrific death. Taken in this sense, the contrast of the 'happy' sections further emphasise, at least to me, just how misguided and out of place these causes - ultimately done in the name of something moral and spiritual - were in light of the terrible human cost.
 

Perun

Dominus et deus
Staff member
I'd ideally like to give this an 8.5 out of 10 (and I don't give 10s to anything). It's one of my favourite Maiden songs, partly because of the sheer energy, and partly because I've studied Cathar/Occitan society, the Albigensian Crusade and medieval history in general and I'm fascinated by it.
If you find the time, maybe the following read is something for you: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/cathars-albigensians-and-bogomils
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
 

MrKnickerbocker

clap hands
7.

I like the heaviness of this song and the instrumental parts. The melody of the verses is great and the chorus is cool, but shrieky. The post chorus happy riff vocal is annoying, though.

It's like a cross between a song that could have been on Powerslave and a Dickinson solo track.
 

Brigantium

Paladin of Voltron
Staff member
If you find the time, maybe the following read is something for you: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/cathars-albigensians-and-bogomils
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
That was a good read, yes. We only really touched on the origins of Catharism. The course we were studying focused on the Crusades in general, the political motivation for these campaigns, and social impact.

I knew about a few similarities with the beliefs of the Bogomils, because one of the debates in the course was about the possible transfer of ideas and culture from east to west via the participants in the earlier Crusades. Even getting to the bottom of how (and indeed if) Bogomil beliefs directly spread and gained ground in the south of France is tricky. The records of the early development of the Cathar movement are just so sketchy until it became recognised as a 'problem' for the traditional authorities. So I agree, making the link further, to older Manichaean faiths, just lacks vital bits of evidence to pinpoint how it could have happened.

My course was by and large social history anyway, so the emphasis was always on finding examples of indigenous social development. What we did look at was the emergence of an alternative church structure in the Cathar regions, a social hierarchy that was starting to work in a very different way to the medieval feudal ideal, and the early stages of what looked like self-determination of a distinct Occitan nation. Which would certainly explain why the Church and the King of France wanted to wipe it from the face of the Earth in no uncertain terms. Whether this social change resulted from religious beliefs, or whether Catharism developed hand in hand with this emerging social system, based on a handful of imported ideas, just isn't clear.

Turns out several books have been published on this since I left university, I might get copies and find out what the latest line of thinking is.
 
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