Montsegur
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
The Mid-Distance Runner
Educated Fool
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur
I agree wholeheartedly with everything Chartwel says yet I can only rate the song a 7. Go figure.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything Chartwel says yet I can only rate the song a 7. Go figure.
8/10.NightProwler666 said:
national acrobat
Ancient Mariner
I find this track reminiscent of The Fallen Angel, and I'm no great fan of either song. Still waiting for it to grow significantly on me. 4/10
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Re: Daily Song: Montsegur
This "happy" feel is mostly present in the "as we kill them all" post-chorus, and at that point it feels really out of place. For the rest, I agree with you. The chorus proper, for example, sounds angry.
The subject matter is very dark, but also interesting in its own right. Musically, the song is perhaps not that special, but still good - bordering between 7 and 8. Let's say 7.
Perun said:
This "happy" feel is mostly present in the "as we kill them all" post-chorus, and at that point it feels really out of place. For the rest, I agree with you. The chorus proper, for example, sounds angry.
The subject matter is very dark, but also interesting in its own right. Musically, the song is perhaps not that special, but still good - bordering between 7 and 8. Let's say 7.
Travis The Dragon
AFTERGLOW!!!
Another sweet kick ass rocker that I just love! 9/10 again!
Revelations85
Trooper
9/10. Very heavy, and I love the chorus.
I'd ideally like to give this an 8.5 out of 10 (and I don't give 10s to anything). It's one of my favourite Maiden songs, partly because of the sheer energy, and partly because I've studied Cathar/Occitan society, the Albigensian Crusade and medieval history in general and I'm fascinated by it.
The ‘happy’ or lighthearted parts, I agree, end up detracting from the song, I'd rather they were shorter. The ending, in particular, seems over-cheerful, given the subject matter. However, I don't see it as being entirely out of context in this song.
It suggests a fanfare of triumph and glory to me. I've no idea if this is intentional, or just something I get out of it. The triumph in question could be either the 'victory' of the Crusaders in slaughtering the Cathars, supposedly in the name of God, or the martyrdom of the Cathars, staying true to their religion but taking all their followers with them to a horrific death. Taken in this sense, the contrast of the 'happy' sections further emphasise, at least to me, just how misguided and out of place these causes - ultimately done in the name of something moral and spiritual - were in light of the terrible human cost.
The ‘happy’ or lighthearted parts, I agree, end up detracting from the song, I'd rather they were shorter. The ending, in particular, seems over-cheerful, given the subject matter. However, I don't see it as being entirely out of context in this song.
It suggests a fanfare of triumph and glory to me. I've no idea if this is intentional, or just something I get out of it. The triumph in question could be either the 'victory' of the Crusaders in slaughtering the Cathars, supposedly in the name of God, or the martyrdom of the Cathars, staying true to their religion but taking all their followers with them to a horrific death. Taken in this sense, the contrast of the 'happy' sections further emphasise, at least to me, just how misguided and out of place these causes - ultimately done in the name of something moral and spiritual - were in light of the terrible human cost.
If you find the time, maybe the following read is something for you: http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/cathars-albigensians-and-bogomils
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
7.
I like the heaviness of this song and the instrumental parts. The melody of the verses is great and the chorus is cool, but shrieky. The post chorus happy riff vocal is annoying, though.
It's like a cross between a song that could have been on Powerslave and a Dickinson solo track.
I like the heaviness of this song and the instrumental parts. The melody of the verses is great and the chorus is cool, but shrieky. The post chorus happy riff vocal is annoying, though.
It's like a cross between a song that could have been on Powerslave and a Dickinson solo track.
That was a good read, yes. We only really touched on the origins of Catharism. The course we were studying focused on the Crusades in general, the political motivation for these campaigns, and social impact.
I knew about a few similarities with the beliefs of the Bogomils, because one of the debates in the course was about the possible transfer of ideas and culture from east to west via the participants in the earlier Crusades. Even getting to the bottom of how (and indeed if) Bogomil beliefs directly spread and gained ground in the south of France is tricky. The records of the early development of the Cathar movement are just so sketchy until it became recognised as a 'problem' for the traditional authorities. So I agree, making the link further, to older Manichaean faiths, just lacks vital bits of evidence to pinpoint how it could have happened.
My course was by and large social history anyway, so the emphasis was always on finding examples of indigenous social development. What we did look at was the emergence of an alternative church structure in the Cathar regions, a social hierarchy that was starting to work in a very different way to the medieval feudal ideal, and the early stages of what looked like self-determination of a distinct Occitan nation. Which would certainly explain why the Church and the King of France wanted to wipe it from the face of the Earth in no uncertain terms. Whether this social change resulted from religious beliefs, or whether Catharism developed hand in hand with this emerging social system, based on a handful of imported ideas, just isn't clear.
Turns out several books have been published on this since I left university, I might get copies and find out what the latest line of thinking is.