Moments you thought Maiden were ridiculous and embarrassing

I'm listening to Blood Brothers right now and I really don't get what the problem is. It's a modern classic for a reason, it's top drawer stuff. Hell, I also like the stupid introduction because you need a little cheesiness in a metal show and it contrasts with the relatively somber tone of the song rather well.
 
that time when i saw the bizarre sex show during the number of the beast tour, in the song number of the beast. unfortunately i can't find it now in youtube, but it must exist somewhere. the dancers in number of the beast actually make out during the song (with costumes on of course). i don't know what they were thinking of when they planned this... it's so bizarre and ugly... and if they did it today they would be cancelled i think immediately :)
 
that time when i saw the bizarre sex show during the number of the beast tour, in the song number of the beast. unfortunately i can't find it now in youtube, but it must exist somewhere. the dancers in number of the beast actually make out during the song (with costumes on of course). i don't know what they were thinking of when they planned this... it's so bizarre and ugly... and if they did it today they would be cancelled i think immediately :)
If my memory is good, you can find this "show" on the video for Beast Over Hammersmith on YT.
 
Not many things that I'd categorize as embarrassing.

Their obsession with Churchill would be one. I'm sorry, I know how legendary his speech was, but no one can convince me that they find the way the recording sounds "cool" or "epic". It's so insanely goofy and I can't take it seriously in the least.

Hated the times when they gave the walk-on Eddies guitars. Looked so utterly stupid that I'm baffled to this day that it got greenlighted.

Like other posters, some of Bruce's talking points, rants, and POVs are cringeworthy as well.

At the same time I find fanboys/fangirls who can't deal with the smallest amount of criticism cringeworthy. We all love Maiden, but they are far from perfect. And I won't apologize for having principles either; if Bruce runs his mouth he gets criticized. There's no need to deflect and change the topic to discussing the music. He's a big boy, he can take the heat.
Also, art is inherently political. It's fine if people "just want to listen to the music", but to try to shame others into doing so, just because they rightfully criticize some of the outright idiotic things Bruce has said is beyond embarrassing.

Tranpshobes and TERFs are scum and a stain on society. They deserve no respect whatsoever and should be ridiculed at any given moment. We can debate on topics like pineapple being suitable for pizza or not, or if To Tame A Land sucks (yes, it does), but human rights aren't up for debate. Being an ignorant fuck isn't a justification nor an excuse. Learn to respect your fellow human beings, it's much easier than being a bigot.
 
Their obsession with Churchill would be one. I'm sorry, I know how legendary his speech was, but no one can convince me that they find the way the recording sounds "cool" or "epic". It's so insanely goofy and I can't take it seriously in the least.

It all meets exactly my type of humor when the Churchill speech is played in its original version, volume turned up - and there's just no Aces High after "WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER!" But the speech continuing. :D:nuts::wtf::edmetal:
 
I'll remind people that we don't allow posting bigoted content, which includes transphobia.
Tranpshobes and TERFs are scum and a stain on society. They deserve no respect whatsoever and should be ridiculed at any given moment.
Can we get a formal definition from the moderators of what actually constitutes a transphobic comment if this is going to keep coming up here and we’re being warned that it will be moderated aggressively?

Normally I would assume it would just be an explicitly derogatory comment or a negative stereotype like anything else, but this term in particular seems to carry an astonishingly broad meaning to some folks, e.g. Dee Snider of all people being called “transphobic” recently:

I mean, if children aren’t able to legally consent to contracts because they aren’t considered legally competent to make binding decisions, then it seems bizarre to characterize it as bigoted to apply the very same standard to a child’s decision to make irreversible, life-altering modifications to their body. But for all I know the comment I just made might be considered bigoted by someone’s standard and get me insta-banned, so some clarity on the subject would be helpful.
 
Can we get a formal definition from the moderators of what actually constitutes a transphobic comment if this is going to keep coming up here and we’re being warned that it will be moderated aggressively?

Normally I would assume it would just be an explicitly derogatory comment or a negative stereotype like anything else, but this term in particular seems to carry an astonishingly broad meaning to some folks, e.g. Dee Snider of all people being called “transphobic” recently:

I mean, if children aren’t able to legally consent to contracts because they aren’t considered legally competent to make binding decisions, then it seems bizarre to characterize it as bigoted to apply the very same standard to a child’s decision to make irreversible, life-altering modifications to their body. But for all I know the comment I just made might be considered bigoted by someone’s standard and get me insta-banned, so some clarity on the subject would be helpful.
Your comment isn't inherently bigoted, but it is definitely misinformed, which is understandable given how complicated these topics are. Let's clear some stuff up.

Gender identity in humans forms around the ages of 2 to 5 and is something we feel very strongly about from the very beginning. Go to a little boy and call him a girl; see how he reacts. Queer kids exist and they often realize quite early that they are queer. It's also not a "trend" or a "fad" because we can look at the studies on transitioning and see that the vast majority of people who transition are happier afterwards. Furthermore, of the people who have expressed regret, the majority has said that they regretted because of the constant harassment and bigotry they received from friends, family, and strangers; not because of the transitioning itself.

Next, about the general process. It's not easy to transition. You don't just have a spur of the moment and change your whole life. It's a multi-year process that is guided by experts every step along the way. Now, every journey is unique, and there isn't one "correct" way to transition, but the following is in broad strokes what is recommended by experts (by the way, the medical consensus is pro-transitioning):

First step (since we're talking about minors) is social transitioning. That's stuff like letting them choose the hairstyle, clothes, pronouns and name that they prefer to use. All of this is immediately reversible since no long term changes are being done. If the youth realizes that they don't want to transition they can stop at any moment.

Next step are puberty blockers, which were developed for cis kids and have been used for them for literal decades. The studies that we have indicate that the benefits from puberty blockers far outweigh any potential negatives. Going through the "wrong" puberty is devastating and irreversible, while puberty blockers are mostly reversible. There's a reason why the suicide rate increases in trans youth who didn't have access to puberty blockers.

After that, when the person reaches adulthood, they can start Hormone Replacement Therapy and if they want they can also get surgeries. At this point the person has been transitioning for years and it is incredibly unlikely that they'd be unsure and regret their decision down the line. Don't forget that by now that person will have had countless evaluations and discussions with healthcare experts, so it's not as if a 5 year old says "I'm a girl!" and immediately gets his "dick cut off" or whatever crude generalization many transphobes are trying to hurl.

Before we finish up, let's remember that gender affirming care is something that isn't exclusive to trans people. Getting a hair transplant is gender affirming care (Dave had some work done, right?); getting any kind of cosmetic surgery is as well. In fact, it's much easier and much more common for cis youth to get gender affirming surgeries (at least in the west).

Depriving trans youth of the possibility of transitioning is downright cruel and anti-scientific. It is immoral and ignorant. It is okay to not understand the topic and to want to learn more, but to deny necessary healthcare that saves lives is monstrous.

I'm currently on vacation and have to write stuff from my phone, so I can't be as thorough with sources, but if anyone wants to learn more about stuff like that feel free to ask. We could set up a thread for good faith debate and to clear up misconceptions. I'm not a medical professional, so I'm not an authority on the subject, but it is a topic that is quite important to me and I've spent a lot of time dealing with this.
 
The band not playing an encore at Rio de Janeiro 1998, despite an enthusiastic audience. The rest of band also went to the dressing room in this moment without informing Blaze that the show was over. That was just mean.
Do you have some more info about this? I never heard of it before. Interesting.
 
Futureal sounds awesome though.


Edit: I'm skipping my way through it to get a sense of it. Sounds like a fairly good performance to me.

This is from the video description:

"This is one of the most peculiar Iron Maiden concerts ever!Blaze Bayley was offended by some fans located on the front row during the whole night. He also misspelled the lyrics of some songs, as occurred earlier on that tour.The air conditioner system has failed and the whole place became as warm as a Finnish sauna (as everyone should know, in Brazil December is the warmest month alongside January).Because of that and some other alleged technical failures the band decided not to come back to the stage for the encore.That was also the last time the song The Educated Fool was played live and the only gig in Brazil with it.Note: It seems to be the first time in the professional Iron Maiden career that the band didn't return for an encore on purpose."
 
It was one of the very last Blaze gigs, the band knew he was already out at this stage, and the performance on the night was not good.
Are there any links with interviews and statements from that time? I almost know nothing from that era and what was going on. Would like to read a bit more about that. All I remember is that Nicko said something like "if he doesn't leave I will do so".
 
Your comment isn't inherently bigoted, but it is definitely misinformed, which is understandable given how complicated these topics are.
I'm actually not misinformed, as I have a close family member who is trans. You just made a broad assumption that one of my comments was being applied to all cases when it wasn't. But otherwise your post was thoughtful and would be of use to people who aren't as familiar with the topic.

I would be happy to engage with you further on this in an appropriate thread, but only after the moderators clarify their personal definition of "transphobic". I don't have anything to say that would actually be transphobic by any classic definition, but I certainly have some views that clash with current progressive dogma on the topic, so I'd like to know where they think the line is before I comment further.
 
I'm actually not misinformed, as I have a close family member who is trans. You just made a broad assumption that one of my comments was being applied to all cases when it wasn't. But otherwise your post was thoughtful and would be of use to people who aren't as familiar with the topic.

Apologies then. That was mostly aimed at the line "a child’s decision to make irreversible, life-altering modifications to their body", which is basically a strawman argument that has no basis in reality for the reasons I outlined in my previous comment.

But yes, we can wait for the mods to clarify and then move any potential discussion to the appropriate thread. I've gone off-topic quite a bit as it is. I just felt it was necessary to at least state my position and push back a bit against some takes that were rather subtle but were leaning into a problematic (in my opinion) direction.
 
That was mostly aimed at the line "a child’s decision to make irreversible, life-altering modifications to their body", which is basically a strawman argument that has no basis in reality for the reasons I outlined in my previous comment.
Not a straw man unless you apply your own broad assumption that it applies to all cases, which it doesn't, as I already said.
 
Moderator post:

Yes, a debate about trans issues is off topic and shouldn't be in this thread.

As for defining what is and isn't transphobic:
It's almost impossible to draw up a definitive list of what is and isn't transphobic. That would be almost guaranteed to overlook or poorly define a particular issue or piece of language, and would also act as a cheat sheet for anyone genuinely bigoted to be abusive while claiming they've done nothing wrong.

The rule, as ever, is that members read the rules and think carefully before posting, being aware that it's possible for posts that aren't openly abusive to be extremely inflammatory and provocative, or effectively promote a bigoted agenda.

The moderator team reserves the right to remove posts as needed

LC's comment earlier was a reminder to keep everything civil and respectful, since the debate sounded to be getting heated.

As above, please keep this thread on topic.
 
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