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I know all that, I still don't understand the appeal in learning mythologies and languages that are entirely fictional, if you can learn mythologies and languages that actually exist in this world. I just don't get it.
 
Well, they are not entirely fictional. He drew some inspiration from existing languages and mythologies. I guess he made them to make the world he designed as believable as possible for his readers when reading. You know Star Trek doesn't happen for real. But you "believe" enough of it (e.g. because something was made or told well enough).

Just like Tolkien and e.g. George Martin (whose approach is very different) tell things that don't happen for real, have done lots of work to provide a mighty exciting read (view).

And we as readers don't need to learn that mythology or languages by heart, we don't need to be worshippers.
I am not going to learn and boast some Quenya to look cool (if I was able, mind you!). :)
Knowing that he did that all that work is enough for me to make it somewhat more impressive.

But elves and dwarves are in other fairytales indeed. I don't know how to get rid of that association.

Most important to you might be spending time on real things, learning real languages. That's serious stuff. I reckon you are a realist and are mighty interested in real history.

But if you see Tolkien as an entertaining read, and leave the "learning" aspect out, it might not be that terrible. ;-)
 
Didn't Kipling also write for children? Many good authors have written children's books because it allows them to play with form and genre, symbolism, irony, sarcasm, allegory etc. I think there is still a lot of worth in many *good* children's books for adults.

We should get a book club going :D
 
But those "learning" aspects are what I've always reckoned Tolkien to be about. I had a friend once who was a complete Tolkien nut. He read everything. He wanted to name his children after Tolkien characters, and we had a conversation once about mythology and myths of creation, and he proceeded to tell me one in great detail, and unsurprisingly to me, he later said it was that of Tolkien's world.

If I'm supposed to view it as entertainment, then I have to say it's even less for me. I read The Lord of the Rings. I thought the style was dull, the story was boring and it had nothing to keep me interested. I'm not even saying that to me, it's essentially a children's book. Basically, that's all that matters to me, and that's what I always say when I argue that I don't like Tolkien. But the response to that criticism is always, always, always "How can't you like it! Don't you see what he did there? He created an entire language and an entire mythology! A complete world!"

SixesAlltheway said:
Didn't Kipling also write for children? Many good authors have written children's books because it allows them to play with form and genre, symbolism, irony, sarcasm, allegory etc. I think there is still a lot of worth in many *good* children's books for adults.
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True, most authors have also written children's books, and there's nothing wrong with that. I like Kipling because I loved his children's books as a child and later found him to have written other stuff that holds up for me as an adult.
 
Norman Schwarzkopf passed away, from a military perspective he certainly did his job in the Gulf War. George H.W. Bush appears to be pretty seriously ill, he is intensive care. If this goes in 3s, Colin Powell and/or Dick Cheney should be nervous.
 
Perun said:
I just wish that people wouldn't always only talk about that sort of thing and annoy me with it.
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My friends are all obsessed with ridiculous vampire stories - Twilight, The Vampire Diaries, True Blood, Supernatural... Each of them follows about ten different TV series and they talk about that 90% of the time. I can't imagine anything more boring that that.
 
I too am not a big fantasy fan (I'm not interested in fictional stuff but in the real world) but I just can't help but be fascinated by Tolkien's work. I have to also say that I'm a big Howard Phillips Lovecraft and of course -his biggest influence- Edgar Allan Poe fan from fantasy area.
 
Perun said:
Here's something that's been on my mind lately.

I always thought that by the time I'm 30, I would be going to dinner parties wearing a suit, drinking red wine and talking to my peers about the recent UN peace plan, the demise of social democracy, and the Berlin Philharmonics' recent Tchaikovsky performance. Now I'm 28, we all drink till we puke and my mates talk about Star Wars, Tolkien and Nintendo... the stuff you should have grown out of when you were 12.

I do sometimes drink red wine, though.
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False alarm. Once Albie said 40 is the new 30. Now I know he's right. Proportionally, 30 is the new 20, thus don't worry too much, except if you continue doing the same things when you're 40. But I really don't think so.

Two -three generations back a 20 years old could look /act like an 35 -40 today, it's all about when somebody goes out in the real life.. Today, with all those extended studies that can last 10 years, the point of responsibility /entry to real life has been also postponed.
 
I've been up for three hours already and I just remembered I haven't had coffee yet. There must be something wrong with me.
 
That's pretty much usual for me during the weekends.. I'm now up since three hours and haven't make my coffee yet. I'll make it now.
 
I enjoy Star Wars and Tolkien, and I love funny sci-fi and fantasy like Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett, but I admit I get a bit phased when people are so far into something they they talk about nothing else. I can get obsessed with a film, TV series or a band :innocent: but when I find my life revolving around it, I have to step away
 
It's not a matter of age. I know people who are getting close to 40 and act as if they were 22. But once you start a job or a family and your responsibilities start putting pressure on you, your priorities change. Unless you are a total asshole, of course.

Edit: I wouldn't consider Adams and Pratchett anything close to children's literature. Their works are too heavily reliant on classic references and broadly speaking, general knowledge on mythology, history, geography, religion and what not, to be fully appreciated by kids.
 
They are, yes, but I know a few people who are into sci-fi and fantasy wholesale and it's all or nothing to them. Nice folks, but unless you know a lot about a lot of different books and TV programmes connected with the genre you're out on a limb in conversations.
They're always surprised I'm interested in some sci-fi but don't follow all the Star Treks ;)
 
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