KISS

Eddie's Uncle said:
Sorry, but calling Criss solid is out of line. He did not even play on most albums (Anton Fig replaced him). Deuce is pretty much the most complex song he can play, and even this one he simplified live. Peter was probably the most limited drummer ever having success.
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He played on all albums until 1977. And on 1 song only on Dynasty and Psycho Circus. KISS are hard rock, why you expect complex stuff. He's perfect for their 70's material. In his second stint with the band he simplified a lot live, but to call him limited. It's not metal. He did the job.
Eddie's Uncle said:
Some good songs here and there, no question. But overshadowed by their image.
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I would say their image overshadowed their music in the 70's (plus some 80's and early 90's). Underrated imo. Lyrics aside, ofc.
Spaldy said:
No-one in Kiss was a particularly good musician. They were all image, no substance.
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Wow! Even Ace? They're not the most technical or impressive musicians, but Ace is an influential rock guitarist. Paul had a great voice and is a very good as a guitarist. Gene's not a bad bassist. Their live shows until the late 90's, playing, singing, the amount of energy - let other bands try that.
Mosh said:
I still maintain that Peter Criss was a clear weak link in the band though (evidenced by the Parasite video linked above where he can't maintain a consistent tempo or kick pattern).
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IIRC, his tempo issues were one of the reasons for him leaving the band. Btw, the song ''Parasite'' allows such tempo and pattern, methinks.
Spaldy said:
That's some amateur hour drumming for a supposedly professional band. Although standards were presumably lower in 1975.
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Amateur? I don't think it's that bad. It's him at the peak of his powers. And we're talking about the 70's. He's definitely not an impressive drummer.
Eddie's Uncle said:
Eric Carr could play, but they never gave him an opportunity to show it.
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How so?
DJ James said:
This is just incorrect. Bruce Kulick, Mark St John, Vinnie Vincent and Eric Carr are all EXCEPTIONAL musicians.
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Yes. Although I think shredders like Vinnie and Mark weren't a good fit for the band's material, the technical players. Kulick and Carr were perfect.
Eddie's Uncle said:
Well, they turned down Richie Sambora, who auditioned before joining Bon Jovi. He would have been their best guitarist. Wonder why they ditched him. But honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was about looks...
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Sambora would have fitted KISS. Their best guitarist? It's not that easy to say, but Ace is Ace. About the looks, lol.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
But honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was about looks. To join Kiss, you had to look good (I would never had a chance), but not better than Paul of course. I am sure that looking less good than Gene or better than Paul would cost you the job, even if you were the greatest guitarist and nicest person on earth :D
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Not only is this funny, but you know it’s absolutely true too lol
 
Kalata said:
He played on all albums until 1977. And on 1 song only on Dynasty and Psycho Circus. KISS are hard rock, why you expect complex stuff. He's perfect for their 70's material. In his second stint with the band he simplified a lot live, but to call him limited. It's not metal. He did the job.
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I don't expect complex stuff at all. But Kiss drumming is even more simplistic than AC/DC, and thats already as basic as it gets. I don't mind that. As you say, it gets the job done. But it is also valid to say that Peter Criss is a very limited drummer, ss he could not play anything more varied if he had to..
Also, hard rock does not always have to be simplistic. Take Golden Earring for example. Or Deep Purple.
Kalata said:
Underrated imo. Lyrics aside, ofc.
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I always have difficulties to call any band that sold several millions of records underrated.
 
Eddie's Uncle said:
But Kiss drumming is even more simplistic than AC/DC...
But it is also valid to say that Peter Criss is a very limited drummer, ss he could not play anything more varied if he had to..
Also, hard rock does not always have to be simplistic. Take Golden Earring for example. Or Deep Purple.
I always have difficulties to call any band that sold several millions of records underrated.
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Wow.
''very'' is too much imo.
I should have said pure rock.
True, but it happens.

Here's what Gene said about Peter and Ace's musical contribution in a new interview. Peter is not a rock drummer, but he has a swing and play by feel. He gave an example with ''Strutter''. Ace was so serious about his playing and solos. Basically praises. They are all untrained musicians.

blabbermouth.net

GENE SIMMONS Praises ACE FREHLEY And PETER CRISS's Early Musical Contributions To KISS

During an appearance on Billy Corgan's new podcast "The Magnificent Others", Gene Simmons reflected on the musical chemistry of the original KISS lineup, including drummer Peter Criss and guitarist Ace Frehley, both of whom originally split with KISS in the early 1980s, rejoined briefly in the...
blabbermouth.net blabbermouth.net
 
Iron Lurker said:
I saw where Simmons is doing a solo tour and one "lucky" person at each stop can pay $12,500 to be his PA for the day...

Some Kiss fans just love getting fleeced...
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And that tour was cancelled due to low ticket sales. Then this show gets announced by complete coincidence.
 
You have to wonder at Simmons being willing to have some cunt follow him around all day. Surely he's not that hungry for another 12 grand?
 
Prices aside, they said at the time of the End of the Road tour that there would be no more big makeup tours but they would continue to do one off shows/cruises. I had been expecting something like this to be announced eventually.
 
The story from Gene and Paul is that Peter was enjoying watching Gene and Paul be miserable on TV and you can kinda pick up on that from his body language throughout the program. The timeline is interesting as well, I could be mistaken but I think Peter may have been dismissed by the band at this point. He barely played on Dynasty, and he didn't appear at all on Unmasked despite being on the cover and in a music video. There are conflicting stories about when Peter left and why, but it is entirely possible that Peter was "unofficially" out of the band by the Tom Snyder interview and was appearing with them due to contractual obligations (a similar story happened years later when Ace Frehley continued to appear with Kiss publicly until their current contract expired).

The other thing with this interview is it just shows how far the band had fallen into self parody in just a few years. The costumes are ridiculous, and the idea of Gene Simmons the Demon appearing on late night TV talking like a serious artist, while kinda par for the course these days, is insane when you compare it to their personas before they blew up. You get the sense that this band really lost its identity during this time.
 
Like I said elsewhere, I always considered them more or less an often solid power pop band with some extra steps; not Badfinger or Big Star (those would be too sophisticated), but like Cheap Trick with makeup and pyro. They are rarely offensive to me (well, usually - "Who-hot iiiiis my-HA-HA // CHARIZMAAA" and I would have to think really hard to think up a thing as cringy as "Great Expectations"), but rarely stellar either, I must admit I am fascinated by the amount of love and devotion they elicit, both here (I mean, I am baffled at how Mosh of all people is so hugely into them - no offence, I just wouldn't expect it) and in general (I mean, I remember Portnoy saying once how he would like to found a band that would cover some album cuts and obscure Kiss picks live or something, which was beyond bizarre to me... but then again, Portnoy have said a lot of things).

But yeah, it kinda makes me want to try and get into them from time to time, to get what is so special about them.

I can't imagine what a person who has Kiss as their no. 1 band must look like and the thought is kinda depressing, but I was pleasantly surprised at how many good picks I have found anyway. Strutter, Cold Gin, Parasite, Goin' Blind (that one is more or less a Badfinger song proper, methinks), Creatures of the Night, Shock Me, A Million to One, Hotter Than Hell, Black Diamond, Domino... there's a lot of really solid stuff.

And even some of the dumb-dumb-dumb party anthems like Crazy Nights or Rock and Roll All Nite have a certain charm and some of that nostalgia power.

Like, they're a ... pleasant band. All the more bizarre watching Simmons trying to be über-serious and giving everyone the evil eye and whatnot. It forces me to respect them less than they probably deserve.

Hey, we need an album ranking game - it would make me finally sit down and go through it all analytically. Probably would be worth it.


Also
Sheriff_of_Huddersfield said:
Ace's was good, Paul’s was okay, Gene’s was weird (in a bad way) and Peter’s was basically Yacht Rock. Of course, by that time Peter had to rely heavily on studio musicians.
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Apart from Criss, I am ashamed to admit I enjoyed all the solo records - and even more ashamed that Gene's probably the most of them all.
 
I think KISS is probably best compared to a good musical. There are musical people that can suspend their disbelief and go on and on about a musical that has this superb lighting, stage setup, musical numbers, great acting, the whole nine, but to someone that’s not into musicals, how are they suppose to care that this musical is the greatest of all time? That’s how I feel about KISS. There’s a part of my brain that can suspend the disbelief and sit there are really enjoy their music, albums and image. I actually think some of their 80’s albums are my favorite - especially Asylum. There’s just something about that macho/sex driven tongue in cheek rock/metal from that time. Yeah it’s corny but so is Cats probably - Uh! All Night and Rise to It are two of my favorites from that time.
 
DJ James said:
I think KISS is probably best compared to a good musical. There are musical people that can suspend their disbelief and go on and on about a musical that has this superb lighting, stage setup, musical numbers, great acting, the whole nine, but to someone that’s not into musicals, how are they suppose to care that this musical is the greatest of all time? That’s how I feel about KISS. There’s a part of my brain that can suspend the disbelief and sit there are really enjoy their music, albums and image. I actually think some of their 80’s albums are my favorite - especially Asylum. There’s just something about that macho/sex driven tongue in cheek rock/metal from that time. Yeah it’s corny but so is Cats probably - Uh! All Night and Rise to It are two of my favorites from that time.
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As someone hugely into opera and - consequently - musical theatre as well, I'm really striving to get the comparison, but I admit it's an intriguing one and I suppose I kinda get what you mean.
As for the overtuned machismo, I'm more of an AC/DC ("she's using her head again"), Manowar (the sword drenched in blood, lol) and ZZ Top (for all the pearl necklaces and such); Kiss feel really "fake", in a way, very artificial (in a way good opera never should), but I understand that it's just me.

But considering they had a plurality of songwriters and singers, I admit they have certain songwriting charm that some other bands seem to lack.
 
The raunchy KISS stuff from the 80s ("Let's Put The X In Sex" LMAO) as Judas mentioned was totally artificial. Trying desperately to muscle in on Mötley Crue's territory (and failing, since by this point they had removed the makeup and everyone could see that they were just fugly old men).

Crazy Nights was their best 80s song imo. Or maybe God Gave Rock n' Roll.
 
JudasMyGuide said:
As someone hugely into opera and - consequently - musical theatre as well, I'm really striving to get the comparison, but I admit it's an intriguing one and I suppose I kinda get what you mean.
As for the overtuned machismo, I'm more of an AC/DC ("she's using her head again"), Manowar (the sword drenched in blood, lol) and ZZ Top (for all the pearl necklaces and such); Kiss feel really "fake", in a way, very artificial (in a way good opera never should), but I understand that it's just me.

But considering they had a plurality of songwriters and singers, I admit they have certain songwriting charm that some other bands seem to lack
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Admittedly I typed that out during some downtime at work, I didn’t explain my point properly. With musicals and opera, I think the suspension of disbelief it takes to “buy-in” to what you’re seeing is pretty high. Being in the presence of actors on a stage that is front of you and pushing aside that they’re actors on a stage to take in a story or an emotional beat I think is hard for some. KISS probably isn’t this high brow, but their sound and image is so unbelievable that I think a lot of people never bought in. And again they’re not high brow, in fact quite the opposite, it’s hard to take them seriously. I think that’s where the suspension of disbelief comes in with KISS. Simply put, there are some people that can buy-in to KISS and there’s those that can’t. There’s nothing wrong either way.

There’s a lot of KISS hate out there, and a lot of it is warranted. There are points about their music being made in here that I disagree with, but I’m not going to convince someone that doesn’t like KISS that they’re missing out on anything. I think if KISS didn’t capture your imagination when you were younger, I don’t believe they have it in them to capture a fully developed brain.
 
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