Yeah, and I'm quite fond of both Battle Beast and Sonata Arctica, so I'm 100% down.
Kamelot
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Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Yup. This last tour their set was barely 90 minutes and they played what, two old songs? There’s a few cool newer tracks, but at this point if a song doesn’t come from Fourth Legacy, Karma, Epica, or Black Halo, I have no interest in hearing it.
I love Tommy, but Kamelot’s best days are far behind them.
Poor Tommy is wasting his time in Kamelot. He should do more stuff with Arjen Lucassen who lets him show his true quality. In Kamelot he only seems to exist to copy Khan. Worst situation than Stu/Barlow/Iced Earth.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Dead on. The Source may be my favorite performance of Tommy’s all-around - even stronger than most Seventh Wonder stuff.
He should give up the mid-tempo, mid-range drudgery of nu-Kamelot and go back to fighting fires. It won’t be as lucrative, but he’d probably feel better about himself since he’s definitely not rescuing any cats stuck in trees as a member of Kamelot.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Anyway, @MrKnickerbocker , do you hate the early albums equally? Because I finally got the courage to try out Dominion and I think it's much much better than the debut. Both the vocals and the songwriting has improved a lot, IMHO. Of course it's not up to par with the mid-career stuff (which - to be fair - belongs among the best power metal stuff in general in my book), but I find it quite decent and enjoyable.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
To be honest, I don't even listen to the early albums. They're just not good. Even Khan's presence on Siége Perilous doesn't help as the songwriting just wasn't there yet. The Fourth Legacy is incredible, though.
Also in Kamelot news, the new tour has started and *GUESS WHAT* it's another ludicrously boring setlist.
Kamelot Setlist at The Theatre of Living Arts, Philadelphia
Get the Kamelot Setlist of the concert at The Theatre of Living Arts, Philadelphia, PA, USA on September 11, 2019 from the The Shadow Theory Tour and other Kamelot Setlists for free on setlist.fm!
www.setlist.fm
Kamelot Setlist at The Fillmore Silver Spring, Silver Spring
Get the Kamelot Setlist of the concert at The Fillmore Silver Spring, Silver Spring, MD, USA on September 10, 2019 from the The Shadow Theory Tour and other Kamelot Setlists for free on setlist.fm!
www.setlist.fm
I'm seeing them tonight. It's not a particularly inspiring setlist, but it will be nice to take them off the list.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
I saw Kameltoelot three times between August last year and March this year - one was at a festival and the other two were headline shows with superior support bands (Cellar Darling last October and Evergrey in March). Kamelot were great on each occasion in spite of the perceived uninspired setlist (but if you need to use the facilities then just before the drum solo is a good time to go). Tommy is a great singer and there's always a really good atmosphere for them so you'll definitely enjoy the show.
I'm looking forward to it, to be honest. Having spun the setlist a few times in anticipation I think it's pretty good. A little light on the new album, which it is supposed to be supporting, but that is not all that surprising.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
I just started listening to Kamelot's entire discography as they are a winter/Christmas metal band to me
So, I'm in a power-metalish mood... It's both that the winter is coming and the fact I utilised Black Friday to buy Diablo III and I need some kick-ass playlist to play along to (though we're seeing Coppélia on Tuesday, so it's not all just metal, really).
Of course I returned to Rhapsody (whomevers / of whatever) and Blind Guardian, 'cause those two just push the right buttons with me. But as I've considered Kamelot among my favourite power metal bands, of course I put them on as well.
And honestly - I have to ask. Seriously, I don't want to be a troll or your general internet contrarian, though it often might come across that way. It's just that some stuff tends to be really overrated and some other stuff criminally underrated, you know the drill. Like, I really think A Passion Play is Tull's greatest work (and 'Arry thinks so as well! Though he admits it's an "acquired taste"), but that's not the hipster within me - on the contrary, I would be much happier if more people agreed with some of my controversial opinions. Some things simply need more love in general is what I'm saying.
So what's the deal about The Black Halo? Everyone assured me it was supposed to be even better than Epica, on Metal-Archives there are several 100% ratings with assessments like "possibly the greatest metal album of all time"... and ... I just don't get it.
Now wait a second - of course it's awesome. I really like it from the beginning to the end, there's nary a stinker in sight... yet as a second half of that Faustian epic I kinda feel it leaves something to be desired. I love Epica through and through and it would definitely get a strong 10/10 from me. Halo, on the other hand, would be like strong 8/weak 9-ish. It's not as melodic as its predecessor, nor as energetic (Karma speaks to me more in that regard), the idea of using Shagrath as Mephisto is cool, but I feel it's underutilised in a way...
Kinda feels to me like European vs American power metal, if you get what I mean. Like, I might appreciate and often even enjoy Iced Earth, but Rhapsody (whomevers / of whatever) will always be above that one in my book. Halo is heavier (thus the good MA reviews, I guess, but then again - Epica's overall score is 92% and Halo's 88%, so the idea it's the better of the two is probably not universal), but I just can't get under the surface.
But seriously, I would like to appreciate is as much as everyone else does. What could help?
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I’ve just started by Kamelot relisten for the year! I’m working backwards this time in hopes that I’ll have more appreciation for the newer material.
Now, I love The Black Halo, but I completely understand where you’re coming from. As much as it is a great album, the majesty and melody of the previous three albums is definitely sidelined in favor of heaviness and gothic atmosphere. I see it as Kamelot’s “Black Album” i.e. figuring out their formula and cutting out all the “fat”. Unfortunately, the “fat” was the epic, melodic, and more European power metal approach to songwriting.
The Black Halo is the last truly great Kamelot record (and I like Tommy, but the music just ain’t the same). Atmosphere takes over, gothic heaviness replaces power metal hooks and rhythms and everything just starts feeling very...samey.
That said, I love almost every song on TBH and it’s probably their most truly consistent effort.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Started an early winter re-listen to Kamelot, going in reverse order in hopes to gain further appreciation for the Tommy era. Here's what happened:
THE SHADOW THEORY
I think this might be Kamelot's most bland album. There's a few strong tracks, one amazing song, and a ton of paint-by-numbers, unmemorable, elevator metal. It's easily Tommy's weakest recording so far with the band. His choice to "sing lower so that the songs can be better reproduced night after night" leads to some pretty uninspiring gothy melodies. I do, however, think Thomas Youngblood has some really strong solos here.
HAVEN
The biggest mixed bag of nü-Kamelot. The first half of this record is astounding. Catchy, dark, interesting and with Tommy at 100%. Unfortunately it falls off a cliff after that and mires in mediocrity for most of the rest of the album. It's a shame, really, cause it starts so very strong.
SILVERTHORN
I'd say this is the most consistent Tommy record, but it's also the least memorable. It's a nice debut for a new singer, but also a little too safe. There's also some story going on that I don't fully understand about brothers and a dead sister and time travel, maybe?
THE SHADOW THEORY
I think this might be Kamelot's most bland album. There's a few strong tracks, one amazing song, and a ton of paint-by-numbers, unmemorable, elevator metal. It's easily Tommy's weakest recording so far with the band. His choice to "sing lower so that the songs can be better reproduced night after night" leads to some pretty uninspiring gothy melodies. I do, however, think Thomas Youngblood has some really strong solos here.
- The Mission/Phantom Divine (Shadow Empire) - Sounds like a mediocre mashup of Ghost Opera and Sacrimony. It's fine, but meh. The female vocals feel forced. The "there is still hope for us/I am the empire" is the best part. 7/10
- RavenLight - Boring pattern riffs, more gothy high baritone verses with some falsettos that sound stolen one of the later Khan records, but Youngblood shreds and trades off with Oliver and it's neat. It's fine for a background song. 7/10
- Amnesiac - Heavy and crunchy, with a super catchy chorus. I like this one a lot. Tommy's voice sounds really good and he's experimenting a bit with some rougher tones. 9/10
- Burns to Embrace - A truly great song, easily the best on the album. It's interesting as hell, Tommy's using every ounce of cheesy showmanship to great reward. The chorus is huge and has an awesome, throwback Europeam PM vibe. The keyboard adds a ton of atmospheric layers here. There's even a cool neoclassical section before the (also neoclassical) solo! It's like an old-school Kamelot song that's been slammed into their newer sound and production. A classic. 10/10
- In Twilight Hours - I did not like this the first time I heard it, but as with most Kamelot duet ballads: it grew on me. Simple, catchy, emotive, and the duet works well. Not perfect, but quite good. Youngblood's solo is very nicely composed. 9/10
- Kevlar Skin - And now we move into the rest of the filler. Chunky riffs, double bass, sliding gothy melodies and FX. Again: it's fine, but safe. Another good guitar/keyboard duel, though. 7/10
- Static - Even more boring and safe than the last song. It sounds like a Silverthorn leftover, but worse. They hammer that main melody way too hard and I don't really like it as a vocal. 6/10
- Mindfall Remedy - This one's just a mess. It's incredibly cluttered and overblown. The string lines are cool, but the chorus is clunky as hell as is the random, brief piano/vocal section. 6/10
- Stories Unheard - Another clunker. There's just nothing memorable here. Tommy's really trying, but the song is just another elevator tune. 6/10
- Vespertine (My Crimson Bride) - Sounds more like Nightwish than Kamelot, but I'm into it. It swings, it's got swagger and it's very catchy. Nice chorus, nice forward motion. It feels like the band doing something a little new and just having fun. The solo rules. 9/10
- The Proud and The Broken - A little bit epic, pretty anthemic, also feels more like classic Kamelot. The screams work here. Tommy FINALLY pushes himself vocally and it sounds great. Lots of guitar leads, lots of cool keyboard work. It's very strong. 9/10
- Ministrium (Shadow Key) - Kamelot's material is not epic enough to begin and end with an "orchestral" track. The album would be better without this song. 5/10
HAVEN
The biggest mixed bag of nü-Kamelot. The first half of this record is astounding. Catchy, dark, interesting and with Tommy at 100%. Unfortunately it falls off a cliff after that and mires in mediocrity for most of the rest of the album. It's a shame, really, cause it starts so very strong.
- Fallen Star - This one hit me just recently, but damn is it great. Complex (for Kamelot), catchy, and Tommy sounds amazing. An awesome track. 10/10
- Insomnia - Same here! The energy is palpable, the riffs are hooky, the keyboard is leading the melody, and it's dynamic as hell. Probably the best example of Kamelot succeeding at the "baritone verse/tenor chorus" formula. Also possibly one of Kamelot's overall most catchy melodies. 10/10
- Citizen Zero - The atmosphere is so dark here and I absolutely love it. One of the heaviest and dark tonalities in the catalogue. There's something truly wicked about the whole track. The chorus is huge, but super weird. It's like the villain's song in a Broadway musical. We also get a Symphony X Gregorian chant section, a big keyboard solo, Tommy screaming in his upper register - it's rad. So far, this album is the opposite of The Shadow Theory in that it sounds like Tommy is really inspired and has something to prove. 10/10
- Veil of Elysium - Classic Kamelot here. It starts out like a nü-Kamelot song but then that sweeping main melody kicks in and I feel like I'm listening to Karma or Epica. Probably the most "classic-sounding" Tommy song. The vocals are just supremely beautiful and catchy. I love it. 10/10
- Under Grey Skies - A Celtic-sounding formula-driven Kamelot duet...that still works! I know they beat this formula to death, but they do it really well. The guitar playing is gorgeous. Great performances from both singers here, especially Tommy pushing his range so high. I wish he sang like this on every song. It loses a point simply for a weird ending. 9/10
- My Therapy - ...aaaaaaaaand there's the cliff. The bar is set far too high by the first half of the album. This could have been the worst song on The Black Halo. 5/10
- Ecclesia/End of Innocence - I do like the swing of this song. It's got that jaunty 6/8 pirate swing that I can't help but love. It's a pretty cool song with a really solid chorus. The last truly good tune on the album. 8/10
- Beautiful Apocalypse - Here comes another faux-aggro, complete mess of a tune. Sounds like industrial metal with a choir boy singer. The chorus is a clusterfuck. Points for energetic swagger and nothing else. 5/10
- Liar Liar (Wasteland Monarchy) - A better written version of the preceeding song, but now with double bass! The chorus is better, but there's just too many damn vocal layers happening. It sounds like a jumbled mess. Every time they try to do these aggressive, female-guest-screamer songs now they just sound bloated. There's a cool guitar and keyboard bridge that helps out, but it's followed by another forced guest singer. Meh. 7/10
- Here’s to the Fall - This one gets points for raw beauty, even though I don't find the melody or lyrical composition very engaging. It's very classical and a touch boring. 7/10
- Revolution/Haven - And now, for another version of the same song we just heard twice before. I don't know, the composition here sounds incredibly clunky (again). Also, another lame outro. 7/10
SILVERTHORN
I'd say this is the most consistent Tommy record, but it's also the least memorable. It's a nice debut for a new singer, but also a little too safe. There's also some story going on that I don't fully understand about brothers and a dead sister and time travel, maybe?
- Manus Dei/Sacrimony (Angel of Afterlife) - The opener is one of the band's strongest songs ever and a perfect version of the Kamelot formula. Upbeat, anthemic chorus + gothy, twisty verses + pretty female vocals + screams. I'm pretty sure this has been the band's closing tune since Tommy joined and for good reason. 10/10
- Ashes to Ashes - I like the main riff on this one, it's very twisty in an almost Symphony X fashion. Tommy's doing his best Khan impression. The chorus is good, but not great. The syncopated bridge and guitar/keyboard battle add a point. Nice tune, but nothing special. 8/10
- Torn - Sounds like a Ghost Opera song, but I can't remember which one. The second half of the chorus feels awkwardly phrased. I don't know, it's fine. 7/10
- Song for Jolee - A beautiful performance and some great melodic choices, but again, some awkward lyrical choices save it from being great. A nice showcase for Tommy, though. 8/10
- Veritas - A nice chunky tune reminiscent of the previous album. I like the choir parts. The female vocal section and Celtic guitar solo are great, but feel a little out of place. 8/10
- My Confession - More European swagger melodies and a nice swing, I dig this one when it starts but it soon drops down to another gothic verse. Dynamic, sure, but the formula is getting old. "Each night I die in hell" is a terrible lyric. Good chorus. 8/10
- Silverthorn - After a brief orchestral section, this one punches you in the face...before dropping down into yet another gothic verse. Do you feel like my review is repeating itself? That's Kamelot. The chorus is really interesting, but has some strange phrasing (AGAIN) that I don't love. The children's choir and bridge feel clunky. 7/10
- Falling Like the Fahrenheit - The formula continues, but this one has a stronger core to it. The chorus is sweeping and grand. The incredibly weird Rush bridge is awesome. 8/10
- Solitaire - Another classic sounding Kamelot tune. Reminds me of some Black Halo songs. The quiet piano section before the double-bass driven chorus is really cool. I appreciate the drive. 8/10
- Prodigal Son/Continuum - A huge melodic piece that really tries hard to be epic. Some very nice quiet verses lead into a giant bluesy guitar solo and then an absolutely sick riff section with a lot of pick squeals. The pacing is a bit off, but the vocal melodies start to remind me of some of Russell Allen's best work. The ending is amazing and Tommy finally sounds like Tommy! A great tune. 10/10
I don't think the problem with Kamelot is Tommy.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Oh, I very much agree and I think Silverthorn is the best example of this: Tommy is the most interesting thing about it. "The Kamelot Machine" is the problem with Kamelot.
Write - 2 weeks
Record - 2 weeks
Tour - 1-2 years
Take a Break - 1 month
...repeat
The first half of Haven feels like a band rejuvenated by their renewed success with a new singer, only to lose wind after 25 minutes of music. Shadow Theory is an album made specifically to feel and look cool live, not an album made by a band striving to create incredible, grandiose, lasting musical compositions. They've become a band obsessed with consistency instead of musicality, and thus, have simply gotten stale.
I'd have to do a full discography listen, which has always been a problem with me for Kamelot due to the horrible nature of the first 3ish albums. But yes, overall, I can see where you're coming from, even if I am giving Shadow Theory more rope, it's likely because that's the album I listened to most of the Tommy-era releases.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Kameltoe are releasing a rare artefact called a DVD in August. It will have a concert filmed in Tilburg in Holland and has a few guest performances from ACM. I'm surprised a band of Kamelot's stature would bother with DVDs now.
blabbermouth.net
KAMELOT To Release 'I Am The Empire - Live From The 013' DVD And Blu-Ray In August
Symphonic metal masters KAMELOT return with their newest offering, "I Am The Empire - Live From The 013", to be released on August 14 via Napalm Records. The majestic live album, DVD and Blu-ray, recorded at the legendary 013 in Tilburg, Netherlands, consists of 21 songs that will tug on your...
blabbermouth.net
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
Kameltoe are releasing a rare artefact called a DVD in August. It will have a concert filmed in Tilburg in Holland and has a few guest performances from ACM. I'm surprised a band of Kamelot's stature would bother with DVDs now.
View attachment 12093
KAMELOT To Release 'I Am The Empire - Live From The 013' DVD And Blu-Ray In August
Symphonic metal masters KAMELOT return with their newest offering, "I Am The Empire - Live From The 013", to be released on August 14 via Napalm Records. The majestic live album, DVD and Blu-ray, recorded at the legendary 013 in Tilburg, Netherlands, consists of 21 songs that will tug on your...
sounds very much in-touch with their out-of-touch nature
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
All of the comments are, "WOW Tommy sounds so much better! What a great vocal!"
My first thought the second he opened his mouth, "Oh, this is clearly dubbed."
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Anyway, after all the negative comments - this can be used as an appreciation thread as well, right?
So I'll just drop this one here too
So I'll just drop this one here too
It makes me cringe when he imitates Khan with all the kneeling and shit like that.