Iron Maiden News, Links, and Interviews

[MindlessPieces]

And that means that we have right to complain as often as we want because as you said - Maiden albums are lesser quality corporate product which was made with cutting the cost in mind.

Everyone has the right to complain. About 98% of the content on this forum is people complaining.

 

[reimdaase]

 

[Kalata]

Because they are still musicians who are creating art, not just a product. There are millions of musicians out there to this day who are giving their all to create the best sounding albums that they can, despite living in the streaming age and not selling many albums.

This. As I've said before, I like and accept Maiden's studio production (the live releases after 2012 are a different case, plus they are not meant to be perfect), but you just can't leave mistakes on albums, especially for such a big band. The band like to work faster in the studio since 2010, but some production choices like the crowd sound of the latest live album, clipping issues, Bruce's vocals in TFF album or even Bruce's new solo album in which you can hear him taking a breath, I can't believe it. I think nobody wants a perfect production, but the cleanest one possible. I remember in an interview from 1998, Janick had said that the band always tried to work with the latest production equipment, which sounds strange now. They like how they work and sound, but some approaches are frankly lazy, that's it. No money, time or something else.

As for some studio albums: let's say No Prayer's sound was because of the recording studio, TXF could have had a better sound (drums, more powerful guitars, the quiet sections), but it fits the album and the ''rough'' sound of some 90's albums (DOD too), while VXI sounds closer to their 80's sound and is nice. After 2006, the sound got a bit muddy for some reason. SJ improved this while the other two albums have some nice characteristics, but it's still a missed opportunity to make everything sound better, as it should be normally. I think they need a more powerful sound, especially in terms of rhythm guitar (live too) or drums. Like they did with BNW and AMOLAD's productions.

 

[Kalata]

New interview with Steve, great. Thanks for sharing. The curious bits:

-he said that British Lion is more rock than metal, rock with a melody and is quite different band to Maiden. He writes separately for both bands.
-he said about The Mandrake Project that he went to see Bruce in London and thought it was a really strong live band and show, but the favorite was ''Tears Of The Dragon'', the old song, which was fantastic. The album has some really good elements on it, it's different and it's different to some of his older albums, but it's good different.
-he said about Smith/Kotzen music that it's more rock and blues, good songwriting, playing and stuff, but it's not his style.
-he writes what he feels is the best at the time and within Maiden's journey of different writing styles.
-he can't pick the song that's the most Maiden, it's tough to say, he definitely will pick one of the longer ones and said that it should be a song written by the main songwriters in the band - him, Bruce and Adrian. Janick joined later, but became a prolific songwriter. Song like ''The Evil That Men Do''. The interviewer said ''Flight Of Icarus'' and Steve gave this answer.
-his bass playing might be more interesting to say on a song he didn't co-wrote.
-the interviewer asked about not down tuning during the Blaze era and he said that some things in retrospect they could have done, but they didn't think about it. The weird thing is that Blaze was confident when they played in the studio, but live he had some issues here and there with some songs. It is what it is and Blaze has kept the band going during this period so they earn him a lot.
-over the years he kept in touch with Paul and they talked about West Ham.
-he's sure he'll write a book at some point.

 

[TheMercenary]

This. As I've said before, I like and accept Maiden's studio production (the live releases after 2012 are a different case, plus they are not meant to be perfect), but you just can't leave mistakes on albums, especially for such a big band. The band like to work faster in the studio since 2010, but some production choices like the crowd sound of the latest live album, clipping issues, Bruce's vocals in TFF album or even Bruce's new solo album in which you can hear him taking a breath, I can't believe it. I think nobody wants a perfect production, but the cleanest one possible. I remember in an interview from 1998, Janick had said that the band always tried to work with the latest production equipment, which sounds strange now. They like how they work and sound, but some approaches are frankly lazy, that's it. No money, time or something else.

As for some studio albums: let's say No Prayer's sound was because of the recording studio, TXF could have had a better sound (drums, more powerful guitars, the quiet sections), but it fits the album and the ''rough'' sound of some 90's albums (DOD too), while VXI sounds closer to their 80's sound and is nice. After 2006, the sound got a bit muddy for some reason. SJ improved this while the other two albums have some nice characteristics, but it's still a missed opportunity to make everything sound better, as it should be normally. I think they need a more powerful sound, especially in terms of rhythm guitar (live too) or drums. Like they did with BNW and AMOLAD's productions.

I think they should have more respect for the fans. They have respect for fans with well designed shows, but not with studio albums. Steve Harris has said numerous times before that the band wants to do first what it please to them to do. They are kind of selfish with this approach as without fans the band would have never existed. So, now the band will turn 50 next year, they should think about having another approach of recording, mixing and mastering, like they did in the 80's with Martin Birch who pushed them to their limits in terms of songwriting, performance and recording. The band is thinking that, now they are famous and that they have nothing left to prove, they can do do anything with mixing and mastering, without thinking about the fans that deserve some quality recordings.

 

[TheMercenary]

New interview with Steve, great. Thanks for sharing. The curious bits:

-he said that British Lion is more rock than metal, rock with a melody and is quite different band to Maiden. He writes separately for both bands.
-he said about The Mandrake Project that he went to see Bruce in London and thought it was a really strong live band and show, but the favorite was ''Tears Of The Dragon'', the old song, which was fantastic. The album has some really good elements on it, it's different and it's different to some of his older albums, but it's good different.
-he said about Smith/Kotzen music that it's more rock and blues, good songwriting, playing and stuff, but it's not his style.
-he writes what he feels is the best at the time and within Maiden's journey of different writing styles.
-he can't pick the song that's the most Maiden, it's tough to say, he definitely will pick one of the longer ones and said that it should be a song written by the main songwriters in the band - him, Bruce and Adrian. Janick joined later, but became a prolific songwriter. Song like ''The Evil That Men Do''. The interviewer said ''Flight Of Icarus'' and Steve gave this answer.
-his bass playing might be more interesting to say on a song he didn't co-wrote.
-the interviewer asked about not down tuning during the Blaze era and he said that some things in retrospect they could have done, but they didn't think about it. The weird thing is that Blaze was confident when they played in the studio, but live he had some issues here and there with some songs. It is what it is and Blaze has kept the band going during this period so they earn him a lot.
-over the years he kept in touch with Paul and they talked about West Ham.
-he's sure he'll write a book at some point.

Nothing about a potential new Maiden record ?

 

[Vaenyr]

There is no truth to that at all.

They compress during the loudness war to get the overall volume up. So that when their song is played it sounds loud (and exciting) and so the listener is then impressed and goes and buys the album.

Since there is a peak volume on the CD format and since people register the RMS volume at the true volume, then to get the RMS up, they need to compress everything in that part of the song, make everything the loudest possible and so the RMS becomes as loud as it can be. Since everything is at a screaming volume then the drums lose their punch and so something else needs to be done to get the punch back into the drums.

Anyway, just because they compress everything, it doesn't mean they then can't go back to parts like intros or quiet interludes and purposefully make those quiet.

That's not how audio production works. You don't just compress the drums and leave everything else uncompressed to push the volume. You compress the entire thing and brickwall limit. As I said, TXF has a poor production which is seen in the guitar sound as well. TXF is simply not a victim of the loudness wars, that's an absurd claim without any evidence to back it up, born out of a semi-understanding of a few concepts.

Listen to DOD or Death Magnetic and then listen to TXF. Hell, Mosh provided actual screenshots of waveforms from TXF and from contemporary albums proving that TXF is literally quieter than other albums. We can say with almost objective clarity that TXF's sound has absolutely nothing to do with the loudness wars, which again, were mostly a thing a few years later. It's just a poor production, that's it. There's nothing more to it than that.

Edit: Hell, the wikipedia page lists 20 albums as the most common examples and only 3 of them were releases in the 90s. The rest are all from the 2000s.

 

[MindlessPieces]

That's not how audio production works. You don't just compress the drums and leave everything else uncompressed to push the volume.

Who claimed that happened?

You compress the entire thing and brickwall limit.

Yes, that's what I said, well, they don't have to brickwall it. But yes the compression takes all frequencies and gets them all to the same volume.

As I said, TXF has a poor production which is seen in the guitar sound as well. TXF is simply not a victim of the loudness wars, that's an absurd claim without any evidence to back it up,

Album details - Dynamic Range DB

born out of a semi-understanding of a few concepts.

Nice. If you can't win an argument then resort to adhominems.
The problem must be me. not the actual argument.

Listen to DOD or Death Magnetic and then listen to TXF.

Just because DOD and DM are worse, doesn't mean that TXF isn't impacted. This is very poor logic.

Edit: Hell, the wikipedia page lists 20 albums as the most common examples and only 3 of them were releases in the 90s. The rest are all from the 2000s.

Again, poor logic. Just because the worst examples come from the 2000's doesn't mean that the 90's weren't impacted.

 

[MindlessPieces]

without thinking about the fans that deserve some quality recordings.

Since "the fans" download the songs for free and don't buy the albums, do they really deserve high quality (at the cost of the band) recordings?

 

[Jer]

Since "the fans" download the songs for free and don't buy the albums, do they really deserve high quality (at the cost of the band) recordings?

The ones who pay for the music certainly do. If you’re just going to least-common-denominator the whole thing, then what’s the point of doing it at all?

 

[Vaenyr]

Who claimed that happened?

The existence of barely audible sections in the songs proves that TXF didn't go for the loudness wars. As I said before, that's mutually exclusive. Brickwall limiting reduces the dynamic range.

Yes, that's what I said, well, they don't have to brickwall it. But yes the compression takes all frequencies and gets them all to the same volume.

Not really, that's not how compression usually works. Even extreme compression wouldn't achieve that and you would need limiting to really push the volume.

Album details - Dynamic Range DB

How about we compare this to Death Magnetic, one of the most infamous examples? Yeah.

Hell, this link shows that TXF isn't as crushed as you claimed! It's a 9 on a 14 scale, with the higher the number, the higher the dynamic range. Hell, Senjutsu and Nights Of The Dead have much worse scores lmao

Nice. If you can't win an argument then resort to adhominems.
The problem must be me. not the actual argument.

This wasn't meant as an insult. I'm sorry if I came across as too rude, since that wasn't my intention. To me it genuinely comes across as if you've read a bit into these concepts but don't have a firm grasp on them, in turn misidentifying them and applying them where they don't fit.

Just because DOD and DM are worse, doesn't mean that TXF isn't impacted. This is very poor logic.

That wasn't my argument. It's called a comparison. It's also to illustrate that actual victims of the loudness wars could be observed a decade after TXF, which is also supported by the data on Wikipedia.

Also, how come you didn't comment on Mosh's screenshots that proved TXF being quieter than its contemporary releases?

Again, poor logic. Just because the worst examples come from the 2000's doesn't mean that the 90's weren't impacted.

No, it solidifies that the trend blew up much later and that TXF is a bad example in the context of the loudness wars.

 

[Vaenyr]

Since "the fans" download the songs for free and don't buy the albums, do they really deserve high quality (at the cost of the band) recordings?

That's just a strawman. Plenty of fans bought the albums. I certainly did so.

 

[MindlessPieces]

The ones who pay for the music certainly do. If you’re just going to least-common-denominator the whole thing, then what’s the point of doing it at all?

Most people listening to Iron Maiden's music don't buy the songs.

Since it costs a heap to produce quality sounding music, and since the ROI isn't there, Maiden are right not to sink masses of money into the recordings.

As consumers of music (collectively) we get what we deserve.
If people were still buying albums, then Maiden would produce more albums and they would have pristine quality.
There is a belief that LOUD equates to higher sales, so we are still getting Maiden releases which are overly compressed. This band is trying to make money. (and rightly so). Consumers are getting exactly what they deserve.

If consumers bought albums, they would be released more often. If consumers paid for higher quality rather than loud albums, then that is what we would get.

 

[MindlessPieces]

That's just a strawman. Plenty of fans bought the albums. I certainly did so.

But back in the land of reality, we all know they have had to adjust the way they calculate if an album is gold or platinum now, because if they stuck to the old standards pretty much no album would reach the bar.

We are living in a fantasy world if we think album sales haven't been affected by illegal downloads and illegal file sharing.

The argument of "but I buy albums" is very weak.

 

[Vaenyr]

Album details - Dynamic Range DB

Going back to this website, here are multiple albums from 1987 that have the same average rating as TXF or even worse. You can do the same for other years as well. Were they also victims of the loudness wars?

 

[Vaenyr]

But back in the land of reality, we all know they have had to adjust the way they calculate if an album is gold or platinum now, because if they stuck to the old standards pretty much no album would reach the bar.

We are living in a fantasy world if we think album sales haven't been affected by illegal downloads and illegal file sharing.

The argument of "but I buy albums" is very weak.

That's an entirely different argument now and once again a strawman. As a consumer who pays for a product I'm entitled to demand a high quality product, especially when other competitors do in fact provide higher quality services.

Your argument about economic factors is straight from the "fantasy world" (cute ad hominem btw ), since a good production can be achieved for essentially free nowadays.

 

[Vaenyr]

Since it costs a heap to produce quality sounding music, and since the ROI isn't there, Maiden are right not to sink masses of money into the recordings.

That's objectively incorrect. It has never been cheaper than it is nowadays.

 

[MindlessPieces]

The existence of barely audible sections in the songs proves that TXF didn't go for the loudness wars.

No that doesn't prove it at all.

How about we compare this to Death Magnetic, one of the most infamous examples? Yeah.

Just because Hitler was really, really, really bad. It can't be used as evidence that Charles Manson wasn't bad.

Hell, this link shows that TXF isn't as crushed as you claimed! It's a 9 on a 14 scale,

Are you living in fantasy land? How crushed did I claim TXF was?

Hell, Senjutsu and Nights Of The Dead have much worse scores lmao

What is your point?

This wasn't meant as an insult. I'm sorry if I came across as too rude, since that wasn't my intention. To me it genuinely comes across as if you've read a bit into these concepts but don't have a firm grasp on them, in turn misidentifying them and applying them where they don't fit.

If you really want to know what my understanding of the loudness wars is then ask me some questions. Don't just make up stuff in your head about my position.

That wasn't my argument. It's called a comparison. It's also to illustrate that actual victims of the loudness wars could be observed a decade after TXF, which is also supported by the data on Wikipedia.

I agree, the loudness war is still ongoing.
My claim was though, that in the beginning days of the loudness wars, some people realised that this took away the punch from the drums and so they tried to counter it by producing more punchy drum tones (that sounded aweful).
Thankfully, even though Loudness war is still ongoing, they don't typically produce horrible drum sounds.

Also, how come you didn't comment on Mosh's screenshots that proved TXF being quieter than its contemporary releases?

Because I wanted to do research myself, which I did, and now I've shown proof conclusive that TXF was highly compressed.

No, it solidifies that the trend blew up much later and that TXF is a bad example in the context of the loudness wars.

TXF isn't the worst example of loudness wars, but it's drums are horrible, and my speculation is that the band was compensating for the compression used.

 

[MindlessPieces]

That's an entirely different argument now and once again a strawman. As a consumer who pays for a product I'm entitled to demand a high quality product, especially when other competitors do in fact provide higher quality services.

Your entitlement is amusing to me. You seem to overlook the fact that you alone buying a single album doesn't cover the costs of producing a high quality sounding album.

The Band is entitled to release whatever they want, you are entitled to buy (or not buy) what is on offer. That's as far as your entitlement goes.

 

[MindlessPieces]

That's objectively incorrect. It has never been cheaper than it is nowadays.

I've never compared the cost of producing albums now vs in previous eras.

What you've done here is a non sequitur