How good are Iron Maiden (individually)?
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Huh I expected a reaction on the other part of my post.
But Angra, to be honest, not. In fact that was because I dislike their singer immensely, but maybe it was their previous singer. I'm talking about Andre Matos. His voice sounds in my ears like a cross between a duck and Kermit the Frog. Kind of the same problem I have with Dream Theater.
But Angra, to be honest, not. In fact that was because I dislike their singer immensely, but maybe it was their previous singer. I'm talking about Andre Matos. His voice sounds in my ears like a cross between a duck and Kermit the Frog. Kind of the same problem I have with Dream Theater.
Twarkle
Nomad
Forostar said:
lol. Sorry I meant to respond to the other part as well, but my baby has my attention divided.
I'm probably a phony Jazz fan. When I was at Berklee in the early 1990's it was forced on me, but I didn't take to it immediately. Then I started hearing more of it and I'd think to myself "wow, these guys are sick players. How are they getting that sound. I play those same scales and modes but I sound stale and generic". So I dove into it more. I found that I love the sound of Jazz sax and piano but am not crazy about most Jazz guitar. Though I really dig fusion guitar. I say I'm a phony Jazz fan because I really am more familiar with the more popular musicians in the genre, and I really love it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about as many artists as I'd like to be. I wouldn't want to try and portray myself as a Jazz cat, or some kind of expert. I am a fan who even after 15 years of listening to it still has limited knowledge of the genre as a whole. But I'm still trying to grow and learn, I just don't have as much time to listen to music as I would like.
I'm always open to suggestions, I always have money put aside for buying new music.
Suicidehummer
Trooper
Jeffmetal said:
Look, Adrian Smith is a soloist, not a rhythm player. Same for Dave and especially Janick. Steve surely isn't a "hold the beat" type of bassist, he's out front playing along with the guitars.
An excellent rhythm section would be AC/DC because they play exactly that - the rhythm. I just don't consider IM to have that great of a rhythm section, but they do have a great drummer who keeps them all in time.
Robbiedbee
Trooper
I'll only comment on Adrian and Dave, because I have studied their work extenisively for years now.
-Dave is a truly unique player. He is in my opinion, the only player who can play that fast, and still make a solo mean something. There are many more technically sound guitar players out there (one plays about 5 feet to his left every night), but Dave's playing has this ability to tug at your heartstrings and engage you whilst you're there with him at a gig, and I don't think the other two do that.
Dave never really does anything complicated in terms of the notes he picks or the way he phrases them, which and I guess is why you don't see him in these "Top # Guitarist" lists; he hasn't really changed the way we play guitar too much, certainly not to the extent, Hendrix, Clapton, Page or Blackmore have. Another thing that bugs me about Dave is that I once read in an interview that between tours, he never plays guitar, meaning he has gone several months without playing in the past. I think this is further evidenced by the fact that he is only a little better nowadays than he was when he was 22 years old, (although at Sonisphere the other week, he was as good as I have ever seen him).
-Adrian in my opinion is one of the best guitar players in the world. He is the quintissential rock guitar player, because he can do it all. He can play proper epic 70s rock licks (to perfection), he can play the sweet 60s electric blues licks (to perfection), and he can play more modern stuff like tapping, and can shred like a beast (though obviously not on the level of say, a Satriani or Vai type player). He has written one some of the most memorable Maiden riffs (2 Minutes being the most obvious), and from what I can tell, the most accomplished rhythm guitarist in the band too.
The difference between him and Dave is that on the Killers tour, Adrian was a very basic player, and his since developed into the brilliant guitarist we see today.
There is an intangible quality to Adrians playing that I find hard to describe. Bruce makes reference to it on the Flight 666 DVD with the "pulling notes from thin air" comment, but I've always preferred to call it the "Gilmour Quality". I've found that David Gilmour has the ability to make every single note he plays (and arguably more importantly, the notes he doesn't play) mean as much as possible, and few guitarists can do it like Gilmour. Adrian I feel is one of them. There is an odd timing to his playing which sets him apart, he kind of falls out of pace with the song sometimes, weave in and out of the rhythm, and neatly come back in at the end. I've always said that of Maiden's trio, Adrian's solos are the easiest to play note-for-note, but by far the hardest to play properly. I have never seen someone play the Wasted Years or Wicker Man solos properly, for example.
I think if you take all things into consideration (technique, individuality, expression, songwriting, longevity), Adrian ticks as many boxes as any other guitar player around. I think the reason why he (or Dave) don't top these polls is because they lack a certain "it" factor that the likes of Hendrix or Slash have, and musicians need to have if they want to transcend the genre, and stand the tests of time. I think Adrian and Dave are just normal blokes, even after all their success; they aren't larger than life characters, and never quite captured the imagination of the masses.
-Dave is a truly unique player. He is in my opinion, the only player who can play that fast, and still make a solo mean something. There are many more technically sound guitar players out there (one plays about 5 feet to his left every night), but Dave's playing has this ability to tug at your heartstrings and engage you whilst you're there with him at a gig, and I don't think the other two do that.
Dave never really does anything complicated in terms of the notes he picks or the way he phrases them, which and I guess is why you don't see him in these "Top # Guitarist" lists; he hasn't really changed the way we play guitar too much, certainly not to the extent, Hendrix, Clapton, Page or Blackmore have. Another thing that bugs me about Dave is that I once read in an interview that between tours, he never plays guitar, meaning he has gone several months without playing in the past. I think this is further evidenced by the fact that he is only a little better nowadays than he was when he was 22 years old, (although at Sonisphere the other week, he was as good as I have ever seen him).
-Adrian in my opinion is one of the best guitar players in the world. He is the quintissential rock guitar player, because he can do it all. He can play proper epic 70s rock licks (to perfection), he can play the sweet 60s electric blues licks (to perfection), and he can play more modern stuff like tapping, and can shred like a beast (though obviously not on the level of say, a Satriani or Vai type player). He has written one some of the most memorable Maiden riffs (2 Minutes being the most obvious), and from what I can tell, the most accomplished rhythm guitarist in the band too.
The difference between him and Dave is that on the Killers tour, Adrian was a very basic player, and his since developed into the brilliant guitarist we see today.
There is an intangible quality to Adrians playing that I find hard to describe. Bruce makes reference to it on the Flight 666 DVD with the "pulling notes from thin air" comment, but I've always preferred to call it the "Gilmour Quality". I've found that David Gilmour has the ability to make every single note he plays (and arguably more importantly, the notes he doesn't play) mean as much as possible, and few guitarists can do it like Gilmour. Adrian I feel is one of them. There is an odd timing to his playing which sets him apart, he kind of falls out of pace with the song sometimes, weave in and out of the rhythm, and neatly come back in at the end. I've always said that of Maiden's trio, Adrian's solos are the easiest to play note-for-note, but by far the hardest to play properly. I have never seen someone play the Wasted Years or Wicker Man solos properly, for example.
I think if you take all things into consideration (technique, individuality, expression, songwriting, longevity), Adrian ticks as many boxes as any other guitar player around. I think the reason why he (or Dave) don't top these polls is because they lack a certain "it" factor that the likes of Hendrix or Slash have, and musicians need to have if they want to transcend the genre, and stand the tests of time. I think Adrian and Dave are just normal blokes, even after all their success; they aren't larger than life characters, and never quite captured the imagination of the masses.
Suicidehummer
Trooper
Well said. I could impress a lot of people with my playing skills, but I still can't get the Wicker Man solo right. Especially the fast part at the end. It sounds like he's picking every note but I can barely keep up hammering on and pulling off those notes. Plus the very first bit that gets repeated at the end is played so smoothly... it's very tough.
I would like to hear him play some clean blues though because any mistake will be amplified when you're playing clean, and you really have to play with passion to make it sound good. Anybody know if he's done anything like what I'm thinking of?
I would like to hear him play some clean blues though because any mistake will be amplified when you're playing clean, and you really have to play with passion to make it sound good. Anybody know if he's done anything like what I'm thinking of?
Jeffmetal
Ancient Mariner
Great writing, Robbiedbee! Adrian really has the 'Gilmour factor' - every note is carefully chosen and has meaning. Wasted Years solo is a mutherfucker to play properly, specially the last phrase. Steve said that even when they're playing football, Adrian's way of pass the marker has an odd sway that ends up perfectly in time, which is exactly like his playing.
Twarkle
Nomad
Robbiedbee said:
I think a lot of what you wrote makes sense but it's a little sentimental. I won't argue with what you wrote since you stated it as opinion, but if you really feel that way I think you are missing out on a ton of amazing players who can play much faster than Dave and with just as much feel and emotion too while make their solos as meaningful and relevant to the song.
But as I have stated before I think ranking guitarists is meaningless and pointless because you can't compare across genres in any meaningful way. Are Smith and Murray on the same level as Shawn Lane in terms of technique, musical knowledge or overall musicianship? No. Are all three capable of playing with emotion and speed? Certainly, but Shawn Lane could never write a song like Maiden does, and the Maiden guys would be lost trying to write or play like Lane did. Smith and Murray are both top notch players who have their own unique and identifiable styles (which is obviously the goal of any musician) and are excellent song writers. But it's silly to compare players that are trying to accomplish completley different things. There are plenty of monster players out there across the genres that are all masters of combining technique and feel. Some of them do it sparingly because they simply enjoy shredding more, and others combine the two effortlessly on a consistent basis.
Also who you like and how they influence you as a player and how you regard them inevitably changes as you do. I know when I started playing in the mid-eighties Smith, Murray, Lynch, Gilbert, and Malmsteen were my big influences. By the time I entered college in the first half of the ninties none of those guys were on my list anymore, replaced by Vai, Petrucci, Holdsworth, (3 of my semesters were spent studying under Joe Stump which burnt me out on Yngwie and neo-classical as a whole for the rest of eternity). By the time I finished school my list had changed again to include guys like Morse and Timmons. Since then I've been influenced many more players and types of music. Though I'm always happy to admit my roots lay with Smith and Murray.
But there are so many unreal players in the world that I don't believe there is any one best player, there's probably not even 100 best players. Just a shit load of amazing players doing different things, in different ways, that different people enjoy for different reasons.
Edit: Jeff, check out this new blog entry by Alex Skolnick who as I'm sure you know is a monster metal and jazz player. I don't know if you are a Testament fan or of his work in Testament (I love his use of the modes of the Melodic Minor scale in a metal context) but I think you'll really dig what he's saying in this article. http://www.guitarplayer.com/BlogComments.aspx?id=117399&blogid=967
Twarkle
Nomad
Forostar said:
I guess it's comes down to a matter of opinion. I think Dave is great, but I think there are actually a great many players who are his equal or surpass him both in the studio and live. And to go off course just a bit, and just focus on speed (which I realize is not the end all be all) but Dave isn't even fast in comparison. His fastest stuff is in the 12 note per second range (I'm taking a bit of a guess there, he may be slower but certainly isn't faster than that), which is a far cry from the guys who are in the 16 to 19 NPS range. Again, I'm not trying to say so and so is faster and therefore better, just that I have seen many a guitar player live who play flawlessly and effortlessly live with tons of emotion and energy who are also so technically proficient that it's scary. I've also seen plenty that are technically proficient and bored me to tears. None of which changes the fact that Dave is amazingly fluid and smooth live, and his legato is as wonderful and liquidy live as it is recorded. The guy is just so relaxed on stage.
Onun
Invader
I think that none of the members are "the best that has ever existed" in their instruments, although Steve Harris is many times seen as an inspiration to another players, mostly because of the galloping bass sound he has made popular. I think he is considered one of the best bass players ever because of his songwriting skills, he is one of the best for sure.
Regarding guitar players, Adrian Smith is my favourite (along with Buckethead) but mostly because of his songwriting skills. I believe he is one of the best songwriters of the metal scene. But I don't really think he is one of the best guitar players ever, technically speaking (neither I think Dave and Janick are, but I love Dave's playing!).
I love Nicko's drumming though, he is no Neil Peart or Petrucci, but he is amazing on his own. Regarding Bruce I think he is the best singer ever in a metal band, he is awesome!
In the end, it's obvious that maiden are what they are because of the sum of all their parts, that's what makes them so special. Without this members the sound wouldn't be the same as it is so, I'm pretty happy for what they are...my favourite band ever.
Regarding guitar players, Adrian Smith is my favourite (along with Buckethead) but mostly because of his songwriting skills. I believe he is one of the best songwriters of the metal scene. But I don't really think he is one of the best guitar players ever, technically speaking (neither I think Dave and Janick are, but I love Dave's playing!).
I love Nicko's drumming though, he is no Neil Peart or Petrucci, but he is amazing on his own. Regarding Bruce I think he is the best singer ever in a metal band, he is awesome!
In the end, it's obvious that maiden are what they are because of the sum of all their parts, that's what makes them so special. Without this members the sound wouldn't be the same as it is so, I'm pretty happy for what they are...my favourite band ever.
Though Petrucci is certainly a monster player.Cap Maronis
Trooper
Well the thing about Nicko is that he has such a great feel for the music that Maiden produces.
It's not like in Judas Priest who make much more straightforward songs, and thus got a serious upgrade when Scott Travis went behind the kit.
It's not like in Judas Priest who make much more straightforward songs, and thus got a serious upgrade when Scott Travis went behind the kit.
Cap Maronis
Trooper
Jeffmetal said:
Scott Travis is all over that entire album, except for Touch of Evil. Just because he climaxed on the intro to painkiller doesn't mean he hasn't kicked severe amounts of ass since then. But yes, I do agree to an extent (RACER X KICK ASS)
Cap Maronis
Trooper
Well yes. It's the most unrestrained classic metal album ever made. 
Though to be perfectly honest, I know Ian Hill has been part of the band since the beginning, but could you imagine even how much better Painkiller would have been had they had a bass player more along the lines of 'Arry or David Ellefson?
Though to be perfectly honest, I know Ian Hill has been part of the band since the beginning, but could you imagine even how much better Painkiller would have been had they had a bass player more along the lines of 'Arry or David Ellefson?