Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) GRAND FINAL

[Vortex]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

No prob.

I voted Master of Puppets on this one but very very tight. By far the 2 best Metallica albums and allthough RTL probably has the bigger singles FWTBT, FTB & Creeping Death, I prefer the overall sound of Master of Puppets which makes for a more enjoyable listen.

 

[SinisterMinisterX]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Too many people voting for Ride. Time for some schoolin, ya punks...

Opener: Battery has some musical complexity behind it and far better lyrics. FFWF is just brute force. Battery wins.
Title track: Master Of Puppets is Metallica's best song.
Slow, ominous track: Tie. I really love TTTSNB. It's the more interesting song structurally and has great riffs. Bell has better lyrics and gets a nod for the live energy.
Ballad: Fade To Black, although Sanitarium has the best drums Lars ever played. (Yes, he was good, once upon a time.)
Side 2 opener: If you think Ice in any way stands up to Heroes, you're insane.
Filler: I love Escape. Leper Messiah sounds too much like what has come before, while Escape's relative poppiness is a breath of fresh air on Ride.
Instrumental: Orion has the real compositional skill. Ktulu is just an expanded theme and variations, while Orion goes for the full ABA. Orion stays interesting, Ktulu gets stale by comparison.
Closing rocker: Creeping Death, obviously.

That's 4.5 for Puppets, 3.5 for Ride. Just like I said, no contest. A clear win for Puppets.

 

[Forostar]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Orion is getting boring after a couple of minutes. Not much variation for such a long song.
The intro of Ktulu is very strong, but later on it becomes repetitive as well.

Now let's focus on both albums and their build-ups.

The problem with Puppets is its second half.

I genuinely find MoP massively over rated and I don't enjoy much of the album after Leper Messiah.

Even earlier. When Welcome Home (Sanitarium) is over I already have the idea "Well, that was that, the rest is only going to be less".

On the other hand, Ride the Lightning has 4 classics (RtL, FWTBT, FTB, CD (take that acronym haters )) and the other 4 are all at least good, even escape.

Yes, there's always the unbeatable Creeping Death we're looking forward to, and the songs before it are short (which is excellent) melodic songs leading to this heralded riff. So, the "Well, that was that, the rest is only going to be less" feeling is not starting before I am well into the final track.

Generally, I think we can say that more songs on Ride have melodic strength than on Puppets, which relies heavily on riffs. Now if some of those riffs were less repetitive, and if some of the songs had more melodic passages built in, then we'd have more trouble with choosing.

Since the average Maiden fan finds melodic songwriting important, I can understand that they chose Ride.

 

[Jupz]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Too many people voting for Ride. Time for some schoolin, ya punks...

Opener: Battery has some musical complexity behind it and far better lyrics. FFWF is just brute force. Battery wins.
Title track: Master Of Puppets is Metallica's best song.
Slow, ominous track: Tie. I really love TTTSNB. It's the more interesting song structurally and has great riffs. Bell has better lyrics and gets a nod for the live energy.
Ballad: Fade To Black, although Sanitarium has the best drums Lars ever played. (Yes, he was good, once upon a time.)
Side 2 opener: If you think Ice in any way stands up to Heroes, you're insane.
Filler: I love Escape. Leper Messiah sounds too much like what has come before, while Escape's relative poppiness is a breath of fresh air on Ride.
Instrumental: Orion has the real compositional skill. Ktulu is just an expanded theme and variations, while Orion goes for the full ABA. Orion stays interesting, Ktulu gets stale by comparison.
Closing rocker: Creeping Death, obviously.

That's 4.5 for Puppets, 3.5 for Ride. Just like I said, no contest. A clear win for Puppets.

Interesting choices, mine are quite opposite to yours.

Opener: Battery - better acoustic intro and although they are both aggressive songs, Battery just feels better to me.
Slow, Ominous Track: FWTBT
Title Track: MoP although RTL is still a very good track.
Ballad: I prefer Welcome Home by a hair here, dunno why but both are some of my fave metallica songs.
Side 2 Opener: I agree Heroes is better here.
"Filler": I love Leper Messiah and I don't think its a filler track at all, so I'll go with that.
Instrumental: Ktulu for me
And then creeping death.

Looking at that, I still like the overall feel of RTL better. I've never really gotten into the second side of MoP (besides Leper Messiah, which still doesn't stand up to most of RTL imo). On the other hand, RTL has (IMO) a better instrumental, and then Creeping Death, which is an insane song. Its pretty hard to beat the first half of MoP, but RTL does well with 4 amazing tracks of its own (FFWF letting it down slightly, as does TTTSNB for MoP). Also even though the last minute or so of TCOK is fairly generic, I still love it

This is a very hard decision that has to be very carefully analyzed. Looking at it from an unbiased perspective, I believe it is fairly even (maybe MoP would win by a hair) but I still prefer RTL so I will vote for it

 

[national acrobat]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Ride the Lightning gets my vote.

 

[Jonszat]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

I listened to MoP earlier today. Decided TTTSNB was still dreadful, Hetfield's vocals some awkward and I'm not that keen on the riff. Orion was still massively boring (shoot me), Disposable Heroes and Damage Inc were better than I remembered, to be fair.

So, if I was to make an ideal album:

Battery
Master of Puppets
For Whom the Bells Toll
Fade to Black
Trapped Under Ice
Lepar Messiah
Call of Ktulu
Creeping Death

So, for me, it's 5:3.

 

[Prowler_108]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Maybe track by track Puppets is better, but working as an album on a whole I can much easier listen to RTL all the way then Puppets.  Plus Orion is boring and Ktulu is the only great instrumental Metallica ever did.

 

[Black Thunder]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Ktulu is the only great instrumental Metallica ever did.

*coughtoliveistodiecough* 

That's my favorite Metallica instrumental - especially the 4:30-7:30 part... They truly shine there.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

*coughtoliveistodiecough* 

That's my favorite Metallica instrumental - especially the 4:30-7:30 part... They truly shine there.

Problem with it is that it spends too much time on variations of that first heavy riff, before getting to the point. Same could be said about Orion. Orion has a lot of variation, but it takes a while before it gets there. Ktulu is the opposite, it is quite varied in the beginning, but some parts drag on a bit long later in the piece.

Anyway, I really like all three of them and would rate each one as one of the better songs from their respective albums (at least top half).

 

[Black Thunder]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Problem with it is that it spends too much time on variations of that first heavy riff, before getting to the point. Same could be said about Orion. Orion has a lot of variation, but it takes a while before it gets there. Ktulu is the opposite, it is quite varied in the beginning, but some parts drag on a bit long later in the piece.

Anyway, I really like all three of them and would rate each one as one of the better songs from their respective albums (at least top half).

I like them all too. It's not a problem if a riff repeats for a long time, as long as I like that riff. All 3 of them are structured almost the same (slow start - first riff - harmonized guitars...). Therefore, I like them all, but TLITD is the best IMO.

EDIT: I sound WAYYYYYYYYY thousand_suns here...

 

[Jonszat]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

*coughtoliveistodiecough* 

That's my favorite Metallica instrumental - especially the 4:30-7:30 part... They truly shine there.

I'd argue they're the finest 3 minutes of Metallica's whole career.

 

[Black Thunder]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

I'd argue they're the finest 3 minutes of Metallica's whole career.

Correct!

Often un-appreciated, though ...

BTW, here are my rankings, from best to worst:

To Live Is To Die
The Call Of Ktulu
Orion
Suicide & Redemption (I like the slow mid-part, though!)

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

You forgot the bass solo, take one 

 

[Unknown One]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Too many people voting for Ride. Time for some schoolin, ya punks...

Opener: Battery has some musical complexity behind it and far better lyrics. FFWF is just brute force. Battery wins.
Title track: Master Of Puppets is Metallica's best song.
Slow, ominous track: Tie. I really love TTTSNB. It's the more interesting song structurally and has great riffs. Bell has better lyrics and gets a nod for the live energy.
Ballad: Fade To Black, although Sanitarium has the best drums Lars ever played. (Yes, he was good, once upon a time.)
Side 2 opener: If you think Ice in any way stands up to Heroes, you're insane.
Filler: I love Escape. Leper Messiah sounds too much like what has come before, while Escape's relative poppiness is a breath of fresh air on Ride.
Instrumental: Orion has the real compositional skill. Ktulu is just an expanded theme and variations, while Orion goes for the full ABA. Orion stays interesting, Ktulu gets stale by comparison.
Closing rocker: Creeping Death, obviously.

That's 4.5 for Puppets, 3.5 for Ride. Just like I said, no contest. A clear win for Puppets.

I chose Ride the Lightning as well. Not that there's anything wrong with Puppets, but Lightning is just a touch better.

Opener: Agreed, Battery sits head and shoulders above FFWF (Although I like the acoustic intro of FFWF more and the instrumental section rocks). Battery has much better lyrics, and I love the post solo / outro riff.
Title track: I'm going to go against the herd and go with Ride the Lightning. Master Of Puppets is Metallica's version of The Trooper for me (a very good song, but overplayed by my friends to the point where I'm a bit mehish to it).
Slow, ominous track: For Whom the Bell Tolls, never liked TTTSNB all that much.
Ballad: Nothing wrong with Sanitarium, but Fade To Black is just that good. Infact, Sanitarium is 7th in my rankings for Metallica songs and I still have to go against it.
Side 2 opener: No contest. Disposable Heroes all the way.
Filler: The 2 weakest tracks on both albums for me, and I don't even prefer one to the other.
Instrumental: I've never been the hugest fan of The Call of Ktulu, so I have to go with Orion, which was my favourite instrumental until fairly recently.
Closing rocker: Creeping Death. Damage Inc. is a solid song, but obviously can't stand up to Creeping Death.

So, 4.5 for Ride the Lightning and 3.5 for Master of Puppets. It also helps Ride the Lightning's cause that I have 3 RtL songs in my top 10 Metallica songs (at numbers 2, 3 and 4), whereas Puppets only takes up 2 spots in my top 10 (5 and 7).

 

[Black Thunder]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

You forgot the bass solo, take one 

How could I do that???

It's between Orion and S&R (and just because it's a take one). 

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

I'd argue they're the finest 3 minutes of Metallica's whole career.

I wouldn't go that far, but they are pretty damn good! I often find myself playing that part myself when just sitting down with a guitar to relax.

 

[The Flash]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Track by track ? I want to talk about it either.

1. Battery vs. Fight Fire with Fire : Both of them are currently in my top 10 Metallica songs list. But Fight Fire with Fire is 4th, Battery is 7th. RTL.
2. Master of Puppets vs. Ride the Lightning : Ride has my favorite Metallica solo, but Master is a better song overall. Master is 9th, Ride is 13th. MOP.
3. The Thing That Should Not Be vs. For Whom the Bell Tolls : I always find TTTSNB underrated, it has one of the heaviest riffs of all time. I love it's dark feeling. For Whom the Bell Tolls is such a classic. FWTBT is 17th, TTTSNB is 25th. RTL.
4. Sanitarium vs. Fade to Black : I always find Fade to Black overrated. Yes it's good but not that much. I'm really not a big fan of Metallica's fourth tracks on their 2nd, 3rd and 4th albums. Especially One from AFJA is one of the most overrated songs of all time. I like Sanitarium's solos so much. Sanitarium is 18th, Fade to Black is 24th. MOP.
5. Disposable Heroes vs. Trapped Under Ice : Disposable Heroes is far better. Heroes is 8th, Trapped Under Ice is not even in my top 30. MOP.
6. Leper Messiah vs. Escape : Leper Messiah is far better. Another top ten MOP song, it's 7th, Escape is not in my top 30. MOP.
7. Orion vs. Creeping Death : Both of them are in my top 10. Orion is my favorite Metallica instrumental but, Creeping Death is my 2nd favorite Metallica song, behind Blackened. Orion is 10th. RTL.
8. Damage, Inc vs. The Call of Ktulu : Damage, Inc. easily one of the most underrated songs of Metallica. I like Ktulu but not that much. Damage, Inc. is 5th, Ktulu is 20th. MOP.

Master of Puppets wins 5-3. I have 6 MOP songs on my top ten so Puppets it's of course my favorite Metallica album. I'm really sorry to see it losing.

 

[Black Thunder]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

Here's mine track-by-track breakdown:

1. Fast, raw openers:
Fight Fire With Fire - Battery
My vote goes to Battery, since it has better riff & drum work. I like the intro of FFWF, though!

2. Title tracks:
Ride The Lightning - Master Of Puppets
No contest here...

3. Haunting, slow songs:
For Whom The Bell Tolls - The Thing That Should Not Be
I dislike TTTSNB, I like the bass intro and the verses in FWTBT.

4. Half ballads:
Fade To Black - Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Fade To Black, by a hair. The riff just blows me away, and those verses wub, the fast part too.

5. Great, complex, rocking songs:
Creeping Death - Disposable Heroes
I like them both. But my vote goes to Creeping Death just because of the bridge. I can't help it but sing it along "DIE BY MY HAND!!!!"

6. Extreme thrashing:
Trapped Under Ice - Damage, Inc.
Damage, Inc.. FAR more powerful, and perhaps their fastest song (besides Dyers Eve). TUI is just too simple.

7. "Fillers":
Escape - Leper Messiah
That outro to Escape creeps me out...  . Leper Messiah, on the other hand, is pure PEDAL TO THE METAL!!! . Bridge kicks ass!!!

8. Instrumentals:
The Call Of Ktulu - Orion
Perhaps the most difficult choice to make. On one side, we have great structured song, with powerful riffs, drum work & passages, and on the other, Cliff's masterpiece. Opus for Metal bass...
Ktulu it is, since there are some parts on Orion that just won't fit into my taste...

---

Ride The Lightning - 4
Master Of Puppets - 4

Now I realize that I shouldn't have voted after all... 

P.S. Easily my longest post ever. 

 

[Vortex]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 1

For me it's:

Opener: Battery has some musical complexity behind it and far better lyrics. FFWF is just brute force. Battery wins.
Title track: Master Of Puppets is Metallica's best song.

This^^

Track 3- No contest. The Thing That Should Not Be I find boring where as FWTBT rocks.
Track 4 (Ballad) - Sanatarium had pretty big shoes to fill after Fade to Black and it almost does it, but FTB by a whisker.
Track 5- Disposable Hereos all the way. I love this track, the whole 8 and a half minutes. Trapped Under Ice is a good song but in no way can compete with DH.
Track 6- Leper Mesiah. This song is hugely underrated IMO, and I love how it speeds up near the end. Escape feels like a filler track to me.
Instrumental - Orion by a mile. Perhaps the 1st half of Orion is a little boring, but the 2nd half is sonic bliss that has a real feel to it. Makes my hairs stand on end.
Thrash track - Damage Inc; Hard choice but Cliff's bass intro and the fact that James says Fuck (which at the time was a big deal) not to mention one of the most insane guitar solos ever, Damage gets my vote.

MOP 6
RTL 2

Anyhow, New round is open

Previous round winner:
Metallica - Ride the Lightning

 

[Jeffmetal]

Re: Greatest Metal Album (Non Maiden) Qualifying Final 2

Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell