GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
I understand that people don’t like Van Halen (particularly DLR) but I don’t understand the dismissive comments that suggest that they win because they have hits. Like them or not, they’re clearly a significant cut above their 70s rock peers, they had some really strong albums that go beyond the hits, and are just as important to Metal as Sabbath, Priest, Maiden, et al.
Fair Warning in particular doesn’t even have as many hits as some of their other albums. You have Unchained sure, but the rest of the album has more of a cult status than mainstream appeal (not unlike Somewhere in Time).
Fair Warning in particular doesn’t even have as many hits as some of their other albums. You have Unchained sure, but the rest of the album has more of a cult status than mainstream appeal (not unlike Somewhere in Time).
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
This and One Foot Out the Door is probably my favorite Van Halen song.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I don't mind the dismissive comments so much, people are entitled to like what they like. But there's is a bit of delusion involved if people are thinking UTA are, in any way shape or form, anywhere near the same ball park as Van Halen. UTA have a bit of a following on here, and I mean no disrespect to people who like them (I've found their tracks not bad at all), but most people have never even heard of them, whereas Van Halen are one of the biggest bands of all time.
Detective Beauregard
Leviathan of Doggerland
Whether most people have heard of UTA is irrelevant to me. I enjoy their music far more than Van Halen’s - and that’s all there is to it. Popularity does not equal quality. For example, U2 is a far more popular band than Symphony X, but at no point would I ever even consider listening to the former over the latter. I don’t have anything against Van Halen’s stuff, but it just isn’t my thing. If they were up against something like Kiss, though, they would have my vote in a second.
“Ball park” is irrelevant. Van Halen isn’t in the same ball park as Dream Theater from a technical perspective, but does that really matter? One is popular, and the other less so. I like what I like, and the popularity of something has no effect on me.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
In the context of an individual voting, you are right, it has no relevance.
In the context of why quantities of individuals would pick Van Halen over Unleash the Archers, it is very relevant. Van Halen have more success and are exponentially more well known than UTA, therefore it's logical that more people would genuinely think they are a better band than UTA.
In the context of why quantities of individuals would pick Van Halen over Unleash the Archers, it is very relevant. Van Halen have more success and are exponentially more well known than UTA, therefore it's logical that more people would genuinely think they are a better band than UTA.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
Even though this is likely sarcastic, it is 100% true.
Van Halen was obviously more popular, and for good reason: they revolutionized rock music at the time, and they were super cool. I genuinely don't know of any band that was cooler in the early 80s. Eddie Van Halen was featured in Back to the Future and Bill and Ted, for chrissakes. Unleash the Archers is entertaining but completely derivative and LARPer-level uncool.
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Spambot
Meme Lord
Dance of Death was my first new Maiden album. Sure, I'm sentimentally attached to it, Paschendale is awesome, a lot of those cool short rockers are there, but still... 1984 guys!!!!!
I often wondered which album was better, Van Halen I or 1984. Then A Different Kind of Truth came out and I just decided to call those 3 "holy VH trinity". What is obvious separation between them is time. Van Halen I is a young band trying to make an awesome first impression. 1984 was a proof from a worldwide-know band that they can still put out something groundbreaking. A Different Kind of Truth is perfect example when a band promises: "We're going back to our roots." and actually delivers that promise while majority of others fail. (Truth be told, some parts of the album were made in the 80's but were heavily re-arranged for ADKOT).
What makes 1984 so great?
This is my opinion of course, but I bet my ass that if they took any song from that album and promoted it a single, that song would end up somewhere in the mainstream charts. Each song has that mainstream appeal, whether is it a catchy riff, chorus, theme - whatever. Yet, within each of those songs you can find a part or something that was so unique, different or mind-blowing. Something where you could hear that stamp of genius that only EVH could put on a song. And this is what is my favorite thing about Eddie and the thing I praise most about him - song construction. Just look at the track-list. I mean, a song starting with triple bass drums and guitar tapping ended up as one of the hottest singles of the year!
When EVH passed away, for days you could read statements from musicians who said EVH inspired them or who praised his impact on the music. That list went from mainstream artist who built their whole career on 3 chords (Angus Young) to some C-level guitar players in the sub-genre of the sub-genre metal bands. That big of an impact he had. But, what made him unique in this vast sea of guitar virtuosos and why will I always rate him as No 1 is his ability to "dumb-down" his talent to everyday listener.
Making a hit song takes talent. Playing something ground-breaking on guitar takes talent. Putting those two in the same song? Well, only couple of them could make that work, but in my opinion, Eddie was the best of them. His work (at least first 6 albums) was perfectly balanced between a guitar-show-off and catchy-mainstream song. That's why I love him so much. Somebody can hear the Panama for the first time and go: "Wow, this sound cool. Panama! Panama-ah!" I listen it for the hundredth time and go: "Fu**, the way he calmed everything down after second chorus only to build it up again later within 1 minute!!!!"
While am at it, a word or two about singer. David Lee Roth as a frontman and performer? Thumb up. David Lee Roth as a singer? Thumb down. Also, the effect he had on Van Halen brothers could be more than seen and heard on 5150. Somebody said that the band lost its sense of humor when DLR left and that's the most accurate description. Why I couldn't (and still can't to some point) listen to Van Hagar is the way Sammy transformed fun rock band into ballad making pop-machine. There are still EVH gems on those records, but the overall feel is waaaay different.
At the end, this is a metal cup. What happened is that a (often considered) rock band's best album ended up against mid-tier metal (on whose forum we write) album and lost. Perfectly understandable and I'm OK with that. I believe Van Halen (as a band) have the same top-tier place in rock genre as Maiden has top-tier place in metal genre. I bet if we put AC-DC+s Back in Black against Piece of Mind, it would be a close call here and the latter would probably win, while everywhere else it would be a landside for AC-DC. I always consider that when I look at the results.
But if I saw right, Fair Warning is the last Van Halen album in GMAC and fu** me if I'm going to let it lose to some super-secret project made by Maidenfans forum moderators!!!
I often wondered which album was better, Van Halen I or 1984. Then A Different Kind of Truth came out and I just decided to call those 3 "holy VH trinity". What is obvious separation between them is time. Van Halen I is a young band trying to make an awesome first impression. 1984 was a proof from a worldwide-know band that they can still put out something groundbreaking. A Different Kind of Truth is perfect example when a band promises: "We're going back to our roots." and actually delivers that promise while majority of others fail. (Truth be told, some parts of the album were made in the 80's but were heavily re-arranged for ADKOT).
What makes 1984 so great?
This is my opinion of course, but I bet my ass that if they took any song from that album and promoted it a single, that song would end up somewhere in the mainstream charts. Each song has that mainstream appeal, whether is it a catchy riff, chorus, theme - whatever. Yet, within each of those songs you can find a part or something that was so unique, different or mind-blowing. Something where you could hear that stamp of genius that only EVH could put on a song. And this is what is my favorite thing about Eddie and the thing I praise most about him - song construction. Just look at the track-list. I mean, a song starting with triple bass drums and guitar tapping ended up as one of the hottest singles of the year!
When EVH passed away, for days you could read statements from musicians who said EVH inspired them or who praised his impact on the music. That list went from mainstream artist who built their whole career on 3 chords (Angus Young) to some C-level guitar players in the sub-genre of the sub-genre metal bands. That big of an impact he had. But, what made him unique in this vast sea of guitar virtuosos and why will I always rate him as No 1 is his ability to "dumb-down" his talent to everyday listener.
Making a hit song takes talent. Playing something ground-breaking on guitar takes talent. Putting those two in the same song? Well, only couple of them could make that work, but in my opinion, Eddie was the best of them. His work (at least first 6 albums) was perfectly balanced between a guitar-show-off and catchy-mainstream song. That's why I love him so much. Somebody can hear the Panama for the first time and go: "Wow, this sound cool. Panama! Panama-ah!" I listen it for the hundredth time and go: "Fu**, the way he calmed everything down after second chorus only to build it up again later within 1 minute!!!!"
While am at it, a word or two about singer. David Lee Roth as a frontman and performer? Thumb up. David Lee Roth as a singer? Thumb down. Also, the effect he had on Van Halen brothers could be more than seen and heard on 5150. Somebody said that the band lost its sense of humor when DLR left and that's the most accurate description. Why I couldn't (and still can't to some point) listen to Van Hagar is the way Sammy transformed fun rock band into ballad making pop-machine. There are still EVH gems on those records, but the overall feel is waaaay different.
At the end, this is a metal cup. What happened is that a (often considered) rock band's best album ended up against mid-tier metal (on whose forum we write) album and lost. Perfectly understandable and I'm OK with that. I believe Van Halen (as a band) have the same top-tier place in rock genre as Maiden has top-tier place in metal genre. I bet if we put AC-DC+s Back in Black against Piece of Mind, it would be a close call here and the latter would probably win, while everywhere else it would be a landside for AC-DC. I always consider that when I look at the results.
But if I saw right, Fair Warning is the last Van Halen album in GMAC and fu** me if I'm going to let it lose to some super-secret project made by Maidenfans forum moderators!!!
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Jer
'Til Tomorrow
FTFY.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Yup.... POM would win. But no... it wouldn't be close. Personally I'm no AC/DC fan but BIB is indeed a classic and great album. But a) so is POM (one of Maiden's best records and the very best for many 80's fans) and b) Maiden bias is strong here. I've seen classic albums being absolutely crushed by modest Maiden albums in this game. After all this is a Maiden Forum.
I'm glad I bought extra biscuits in. 
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Mmm, biscuits.I'm glad I bought extra biscuits in.
Van Halen stays alive and wins the right to challenge Bathory!
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