GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!

[Shmoolikipod]

Well that's an easy round.
Running Wild is more fun.

Ghost Reveries has one of, and probably my favourite Opeth songs, The Baying of the Hounds. Most of the album is actually stellar, but the second half is so much weaker. Atonement is far better than the other two softies, and for me Harlequin Forest is the single most overrated Opeth song. The opening trio alone ought to be better than anything thing on Land of the Free.

Love Firepower, not a big fan of Nightwish.

Finally BC&SL has great highlights but is uneven, meanwhile V is the best SX album of what I've heard and I'll be more than surprised if that changes when I get around to the rest of the discography. I could call any song here my favourite, it's that good... Actually, I probably already have It's their most alive album, extremely memorable, on point performances. Very importantly it's very varied, which I find most their albums are with the exception of TDWOT. If Ghost Reveries is an A, then this is S.

 

[Forostar]

I've seen just as much shit thrown at a lot of the stuff I genuinely love and and even could argue for the quality or truthfulness of. Not just albums - a lot of things in general, but albums, too. Never was butthurt about it, never expected anyone else to be.

You and Diesel stated - as a fact - that it's a great album, I stated - as a fact (and also I did so as a Symph X fan in general) - it's not. If this is your response, I think I've overstayed my welcome.
Won't be bothering anymore.

@JudasMyGuide @LooseCannon

Guys... please, let's take a big breath... maybe count to 10, maybe 10 minutes, hours. But I hope we do not have someone going away.

I admit, I have been a bit angry as well at some point (the grunt comments; but I had my say and promise I won't be pissed off about it for the rest of the game), but I do hope hope we can stick together. The game is long still, and I'd like it if Judas (and others: everybody) will stick around.

 

[Jer]

Quite frankly, this has been suggested to you as well in the past, Jer, and you've ignored that and continued to traverse down this path with faux ignorance, as if your opinion and the manner in which it is delivered belongs on a holy plinth that cannot be challenged.
[...]
Gonna be honest - the fact that you hid your deliberately vile comments and deride those who don't like them as having "weak constitutions" directly indicates what I'm trying to say - you want your opinions to be respected fully, but you don't listen to the opinions and feelings of others, because your opinions have to be treated as quite holy and divine.

So here’s an interesting example. Your conclusions are wildly off the mark here, and I’m the only actual authority on my own thoughts and motivations. Am I allowed to tell you that your opinion is objectively wrong on this point? What is the socially acceptable, respectful response to someone who is accusing you of absurd things because they don’t like certain things you say or how you say them?

“Well, that’s a very unique take on my motivations. I respect your view even though I’m unable to connect it up to objective reality.”

To be honest, when you started spoilering your comments on extreme vocals, your reviews lost exactly none of their authority, but became entirely more pleasing to read, even though I am far from a growls stan. They were far less exhausting, but they were still authentic. It was obvious if you didn't like something, and it was obvious why.

So in other words I did make appropriate concessions that were appreciated, without compromising the authenticity of my point of view, and you are choosing to acknowledge this through the vessel of a condescending lecture.

“That’s an interesting aesthetic you’ve chosen to make your point. I might have made different choices myself, but I fully respect the unusual path you’ve chosen here.”

Like, I get that you want your opinion to fly free and be honest and stuff. But when that opinion is negative - and especially when it is established, it just comes off as being a Jer-k who doesn't respect his fellow forum members. I know for a fact that I am not alone on this.

Yes, for people who are annoyed by hearing opinions they disagree with, and feel like they shouldn’t have to suffer through them again if they’ve already heard them once, that conclusion would make sense. But there are clearly plenty of other forum members who broadly disagree with me on musical opinion who don’t have any major issues with what I say or how I say it. It’s almost like people have different levels of tolerance for hearing things they don’t like. Perhaps they’re...differently constituted. But I guess it would be impolite to point that out.

Notice that you completely dodged my point about the structure of this discussion. If you wanted a thread where people shared albums they liked, and people talked about them, and it had a “no negative comments” rule, you could have totally done that. But you structured it as a competitive elimination event with public voting, which invites side-taking and politics and drama. That’s part of what makes the format interesting. Winning and losing leads to gloating and grieving. Taking sides leads to trash talk. Unexpected come-from-behind victories lead to strong emotions on both sides. It’s a sporting event, with all that comes along with it. Where are the bruised feelings coming from?

 

[Mosh]

I get a lot of younger fans and guitar students telling me that they like Black Clouds & Silver Linings the best. It surprises me, but it actually makes a lot of sense in context. By 2010, Dream Theater were on Road Runner records and getting way more promotional support than they had ever received before, I remember even seeing the Wither music video pretty frequently on the rock music TV channels (yes, these still existed by then!). And, of course, there was the Iron Maiden tour which was an extremely important moment for them. In terms of public consciousness, that period may have been Dream Theater’s most important since the 90s. The album is also weirdly commercial, despite only having 6 songs and only 1 under 8 minutes. Rite of Passage is about as close as DT gets to a short rocker, and Wither is a ballad with hairspray worthy of the early 90s.

I go back and forth on the album, personally. I enjoy it the way I enjoy some of Maiden’s weaker efforts: there are some really cool songs on there and it has a nice vibe, but it falls short in a few key areas. The first song and the last song are immense, some of my favorite Dream Theater moments of the entire discography. That alone makes for more run time than some entire albums in this game. Shattered Fortress and The Best of Times each have some really stellar moments, particularly Petrucci’s solo in the latter, but they are both a little uneven overall. Shattered Fortress in particular is a really satisfactory ending to the 12 step suite, but of all the songs in that suite it’s probably the one I have the least amount of time for on its own.

Wither and A Rite of Passage... meh.

By comparison, V is an album that showcases Symphony X at the top of their game. I remember when I first heard the album: I hadn’t really gotten deep into digital downloads yet and Symphony X hadn’t gotten onto the streaming services, so my exposure was limited to what I could find on CD and Symphony X albums were pretty rare around my parts. So when I finally found V, it was a magical moment. Like discovering a hidden room in the pyramids. So that’s the sentimental attachment to the album (hopefully by now it’s clear that there’s quite a bit of sentimentality to both albums here).

It’s an interesting piece of work from the band. It originates from the Twilight in Olympus era, where the band was arguably at its proggiest, but you can hear signs of a heavier Symphony X to come. There are a lot of recycled ideas, as is frequent with the band, but they’re much more refined. They’re practically the same song, but I will listen to Fallen a thousand times before I go back to Orion: The Hunter. Communion & The Oracle suggests that the ballad format is getting a little tired, it’s not quite as strong as Accolade or Edge of Forever, but it’s still enjoyable and has a nice ending. The motives that run through the album are gorgeous, and the orchestral interludes are a little Super Nintendo-y but I think there’s a lot of charm in that. Overall, I guess you can say the album is uneven. It’s no Mindcrime, it’s not even a Scenes From a Memory, but it has an inescapable charm and is overall much more effective than Black Clouds & Silver Linings, and thus gets my vote.

 

[Mosh]

I don’t have much to say about the other less interesting matches, other than that there is a clear winner and I’m going to be very upset and rage quit the forum if my choices lose.

Nightwish vs Priest: Firepower has overstayed its welcome big time, and this time it is going against a landmark of its genre with Once. The opening track alone is more exciting than anything on Firepower.

Running Wild vs Immortal: Maybe the most important epic Black Metal album ever, enough said.

Opeth vs Gamma Ray - This one hurts a little, both are important albums that deserve to go on. Ghost Reveries is my favorite Opeth album though so I’m going with that, but I wouldn’t be too upset if Gamma Ray clinches it.

 

[Ariana]

@JudasMyGuide @LooseCannon

Guys... please, let's take a big breath... maybe count to 10, maybe 10 minutes, hours. But I hope we do not have someone going away.

This.
I have been worked up about many things in the game, too, and I have hated with a passion some posts/ posters here over their opinion, but there's no need to go overboard. @JudasMyGuide might have unconventional opinions but I don't remember him insulting people. On the contrary, people have insulted him, and this conversation here very much proves so.

 

[srfc]

Running Wild - as mentioned last time I picked up a best of double album of these, not quite familiar with everything on it yet to name drop songs but I was aware of the track Bad to the Bone, from back in the day, and am surprised that it wasn't the track of choice for this round as it's a fantastic song.

Immortal - opinion given before

Running Wild with the win

Opeth - there's been a few of their albums in the game to know what I'm getting so I'm not going to listen to 10 mins of this, no disrepect intended to the nominators. If it had opened with retro 70's stuff that they sometimes do, then I might have but it kicked off with the style that doesn't work for me.

Gamma Ray - opinion given before, intro is Motorhead's Overkill, riff pretty good.

Gamma Ray with the win

Nightwish - pretty good, in parts it has a similar tempo and groove to The Cult's Rain, a track I love. Parts of it are very good but there are also a few real bogey key changes and breakdowns.

Judas Priest - opinion given before

Judas Priest with the win

Symphony X - not for me

Dream Theatre - not for me

Don't care who goes through, I'm going with Symphony X as it has the least amount of nominators so therefore I'm gambling that it has less chance of going further.

 

[Cornfed Hick]

I have been a bit angry as well at some point (the grunt comments; but I had my say and promise I won't be pissed off about it for the rest of the game), but I do hope hope we can stick together.

I don't really know what's going on between @LooseCannon and @JudasMyGuide so I won't comment on that specifically. In general, though:

I hereby reserve the right to be curmudgeonly and sarcastic about music I don't like! That's part of the fun!!! My favorite comments on this thread are the ones that make me laugh, and they are usually snarky. I hope that doesn't go away. If you love a band that I think sucks...well, that's good for you! Liking music is good!!

EDIT: That might be the most exclamation points I have ever used on this forum. My apologies.

 

[Magnus]

I've seen just as much shit thrown at a lot of the stuff I genuinely love and and even could argue for the quality or truthfulness of. Not just albums - a lot of things in general, but albums, too. Never was butthurt about it, never expected anyone else to be.

 

[Jer]

This Running Wild album is significantly better than their previous entries in the GMAC. Lots of cool riffs and solos, and neat guitar bits in the intros. The songwriting is consistently better too. Very good with some great stuff peppered throughout. I’ll definitely need to come back to this one. While this Immortal album has some cool musical moments on it, it’s less consistent and suffers from terrible extreme vocals, so this isn’t a tough call for me. Sorry, Whoopyn DJ Jaapanaes, but I’m going with @Forostar ’s choice here. Winner: Running Wild

There’s a lot to like on this Opeth record, and also a lot to dislike if you find Akerfeldt’s extreme vocals as intolerable as I do. The proggy stuff here maybe isn’t quite as cohesive as in some of their other GMAC entries, and the album seems to run out of steam as you get further in, but there’s a fair amount of cool, respectable music on offer here. That said, it’s up against a monster of a Gamma Ray album that’s great from start to finish, and own-nominee bias makes this decision even easier. Sorry, The Coshflashaanaeled Mick, but Ferostaj’s nominee takes this one for sure. Winner: Gamma Ray

This Nightwish album is more bombastic than their earlier work, and Tarja’s vocal delivery tries to split the difference between operatic and naturalistic with mixed results. Songs like “Nemo” and “The Siren” are great, and “Higher Than Hope” is interesting, but a lot of the other tracks don’t rise to the same level. There’s some more variety here than on previous albums, but that’s not always a good thing. The much-vaunted “Ghost Love Score” didn’t really move the needle for me, and the synth orchestration is pretty awkward and cheap at times. Since it’s going up against a really strong Judas Priest album, I’m afraid its dark chest of wonders is about to be slammed shut. Sorry, FiTeBsel 1, but Cokalallinta’s nominee has more firepower this time. Winner: Judas Priest

The Yngwie DNA is strong in this Symphony X album, not just in the neoclassical elements but even in some of the song construction and vocal choices. I mean this as a compliment, as it’s a very pleasant and familiar feel; but then it’s elevated with proggier instrumentation and songwriting, and much better singing, and the result is an album that’s really great through most of its runtime. The synths still feel a bit bargain basement to me, and “Rediscovery, Pt. II” didn’t really work for me as it veered off a little too far into Broadway territory, but otherwise this really presses all the right buttons. Definitely going to listen to this some more, and it easily wipes the floor with a so-so Dream Theater album. Sorry, The Midnaapanaent, but MrLooserCocker’s choice is the superior one. Winner: Symphony X

 

[Diesel 11]

the synth orchestration is pretty awkward and cheap at times.

I’m pretty sure I know what you mean by “cheap”, but fun fact: that orchestration literally made it the most expensive album in Finnish history to construct, only surpassed by Dark Passion Play three years later. IIRC including the “Nemo” music video the cost was over a million Euros.

 

[MindRuler]

Also, if someone can’t handle hearing that someone else hates something that they personally love, I have to wonder why they’re discussing these sorts of things in a public forum in the first place.

Agreed wholeheartedly. We all have different views about taste. Thank God for that or this would be a very boring place after all.

 

[Forostar]

Running Wild made some excellent metal. Their collection of cool songs is so large.
They could be epic, have intros that keep you on the edge of your seat... and many riff feasts. The Death or Glory album is probably their best. Strong singing, catchy melodies and wonderful lead guitars.

On this album Rolf Kasparek still reached some excellent high notes. At times he sounds like Blaze but then with a higher range. Many strong tracks, the excellent epic “The Battle of Waterloo” included.

I recommend everyone to play this whole album.

 

[Kalata]

Tough draw for Nightwish - Once is probably their best album.

More than half of the album contains classics for the band: the first four songs plus ''The Siren'' and ''Ghost Love Score'', of course.

 

[Confeos]

Been away and missed a lot of rounds, but thought I'd chip in on this one, since I'm familiar with most of the albums already.

Running Wild is really at their peak here; Death or Glory is a true classic. Many of its songs, like "Riding the Storm", "Marooned" and "Tortuga Bay" are stables on any playlist I make. Pirate metal long before Alestorm. On the other hand, I've never listened to Immortal before this - it's a strong offering full of great riffs, competent songwriting and a cohesive mood throughout. I would surely have voted for them in a lot of other match-ups.

Voting for Gamma Ray in the second one - Land of the Free is a contender for THE best power metal-album of all time, in my opinion, featuring Kai Hansen in full creative force. Immensely fun from start to finish. Conversely, I can't help but find Opeth an absolute chore to listen to. Easy decision here.

Now, the third match-up is the one I was looking forward to the most. I love Once, it's right up there with Oceanborn as what I consider the very best of Nightwish. A very different album from Oceanborn, in that many of the power metal influences have been replaced by the familiar symphonic elements (and featuring, as mentioned earlier in this thread I think, a full orchestra) that most people associate with the band. I find the songwriting incredibly strong and fresh (Tuomas wasn't too far up his own behind yet), the musicians firing on all cylinders, and all in all a fitting, albeit acrimonious sendoff for Tarja.
And then we have Firepower. I know a lot of people who have recommending the album to me, so now I finally had a good reason to give it a spin. And... I don't really see what the fuss is all about. Aside from a noticably better production job, I have a hard time spotting why this should be better than, say, Redeemer of Souls. It's still just a band without much ambition playing safe. It may sound harsh, but Priest haven't truly impressed be since Angel of Retribution. So, in any case, this is a clear and definite vote for Nightwish.

In the final clash, we have two albums that I don't think represents the best of either band, and yet it's not a hard decision anyway. Black Clouds and Silver Linings is very uneven; The New Mythology Suite is a definitely better, even though I find later albums like The Odyssey and Paradise Lost more to my liking. The vote is still in Symphony X's favor here, without a doubt.

 

[Cornfed Hick]

Harlequin Forest is the single most overrated Opeth song

I do rate it pretty highly...it's my favorite Opeth song.

 

[karljant]

Abbath and company continue their "let's rip off Bathory" quest. Death And Glory is my second favorite record by the German power metal household after Under Jolly Roger so this one goes to Running Wild.

Two good yet a bit boring albums. Ghost Reveries has Harlequin Forest so I'll vote for Opeth.

Judas Priest.

Two absolutely boring albums. Dream Theater just because.

 

[karljant]

@Jer , @LooseCannon and @JudasMyGuide.

Hey get over it. It's just a game. @LooseCannon really put a lot of work in it so huge props to him. But I think that doesn't give him the right of demanding an extremely high level of politeness while sharing opinions, biases, etc... I mean if there are no personal insults involved I think we all have to listen a bit to common sense. And yeah... sometimes there are opinions/ takes that kinda leave us in a "WTF is wrong with you?" mode but I think you cannot avoid it. IMO the trick is not paying too much attention to it. Now when it's regarding a comment on person X or Y take we're all grown up people and I believe we can talk properly. But my M.O. when I see that the conversation is going nowhere is leaving it as it is. If the other person does not get it and starts being edgy, warped or taking it personally I simply cut it. Why bother? What good can come out of such discussion? Only once it came to a more extreme situation where I had to single it. Otherwise if people have a different take and want to insist on supporting it based on salty takes, good for them! Just count me out. That being said I think @Jer and @JudasMyGuide have all the right to express themselves. Particularly @Jer and his roast on growling and other stuff I truly find repetitive but totally non offensive. And the self censorship he does on his rants with spoilers are utterly unnecessary. Like it or not, dumb or smart It's his opinion and he is entitled to it, period. And no: that does not make growling universally bad because he doesn't like it (no matter how much he believes it, if that's the case). Let's not bring back that conversation.

So peeps, let's stop beating dead horses. And be a bit more thick skinned and not over analyse all these interactions. Tighten up and learn to ignore some minor stuff you don't like: life offers you a lot of it and the "ah f**k this, I'm too old for this s**t" let it go attitude is the best one in many situations.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

I have no preference in the first pairing.

Opeth by far. Ghost of Perdition and Harlequin Forest are both 11/10 songs, even though the rest of the album is so-so. This era of Opeth just makes Gamma Ray look silly.

I love Firepower, but the songwriting and craftsmanship of a progressive, orchestral album like Once will beat it every time. There’s no weak song on Firepower, but Ghost Love Score is better than all of them combined. Nightwish all the way.

Symphony X a thousand times over. V is a masterpiece, and I’d take it over any Dream Theater album (as much as I love them), but against a DT album in the lowest quarter of their catalogue? Symphony X.

 

[Magnus]

It's just a game.

It was, until a moderator started insulting and bullying people to teach them politeness and respect.