For the Greater Good of God

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

My problem with Church is that I hate singing those sappy songs.  ^_^  Don't mind the readings at all, just hate the music and OTT lyrics IMO.  And I find some of the most judgemental people are those who claim not to be.  The ones in church.  SOME of them! I don't find it necessary to live that existance for me to live with my beliefs.  I've never in my time debated religeon and I'm not gonna start now, but just my 2c worth... Nuff Said!

Back on topic;

I find For the Greater Good of God to be the centrepiece of the album.  Can't say whether it's my favourite as the album is packed with great tracks and my passion for each track grows daily and my fondness for particular tunes is constantly changing.  As you would expect FTGGOG contains much earlier Maiden influences, I hear the X Factor a lot in this album and in particular this song, and FTGGOG reaks of the title track from Seventh Son of a Seventh Son.  All good. 

The powerfull lyric is one of the best Maiden lyrics I've heard for quite some time.  The questioning of whether you/we are a person of peace or of Holy War is art at it's best and damn any who claim Maiden are all about swords and dragons and wank.  Not true and FTGGOG is the proof.  To my ears this is the perfect way to question and open the mind.  Many artists cannot do this without being blunt and straight to the point and forcing the issue down one's throat and I trully believe for the 'non believers' or uneducated the Iron Maiden label can overshadow what a pro Steve can be when he nails it like he has here.  Powerful stuff and lyrically I would say this is Steve's best work.  Sure Steve has written some magic over the years and of particular note recently was Blood Brothers but fer me FTGGOG surpases that ten fold. Musically FTGGOG is broader than anything he's self penned since the 80's as without diverting or getting too progressive, the song opens up come solo time enough to shake it up without losing touch. 

Sure to go down as a classic and deservedly so!

 

[Raven]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Actually, in addition (and some amendment) to what I said earlier about the Mass, there are actually three (and possibly four) parts of the Church service that I find relevant:

The Communion-Even though I'm a Catholic, I don't believe in transsubstantiation (the belief that the host and wine really becomes Jesus' body and blood)...considering the man talked in analogies for most of his life, I doubt that he meant the phrase 'This is my body' to be taken literally.  However, he did say, 'Do this in memory of me', and so I believe that Communion is an important part (in fact, the most important) of the service

The Lord's Prayer-Jesus taught his disciples this prayer so that, if they had nothing specific to pray for, they could simply use this single set prayer in place of the many that the Jewish leaders ranted on the street corners.  Nowadays, being a 'proper Catholic' means you have to endlessly recite set prayers, which is exactly what Jesus didn't want...this prayer is the only set prayer that a Christian needs, in my opinion.

The Readings-Simply because they usually contain relevant advice or taken together help you to better understand the Gospel.  In particular, the second reading and the gospel (the former taken from one of Paul's Epistles) are useful

(sometimes) the Sermon-depending on the Priest, this can either be a highly relevant talk (I remember one who once used the 'Death of Common Sense' page from the Net), or a completely tangentiall ramble.  But when it's good, it can be really helpful, especially if you're having difficulty with something.

Other than that, the majority of the Mass is simply ritual...if there could be a return to the original, Early Church (I'm talking up to about 60 years after Jesus' death), I would welcome it.

 

[gor]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

And as they search to find the bodies in the sand
They'll find its ashes that are scattered across the land

Could this be a refference to those people who load theirselves with bombs under their clothes and walk into a cafe?

 

[Albie]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Could this be a refference to those people who load theirselves with bombs under their clothes and walk into a cafe?

Could well be, I think I see your point - because if you take the whole verse:

And as they search to find the bodies in the sand
They'll find its ashes that are scattered across the land
And as their spirits seem to whistle on the wind
A shot is fired somewhere, another war begins

Another "war on terror" begins.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Make no mistake.  This song is about Islamo Facism.  Maiden just wanted to be politically correct and not "offend" anyone.  I guess they didn't want to lose any fans.  A little disappointing.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

It's about religion in general. Show me anything in the lyrics that could point to a specific religion, and maybe I'll stop thinking that you're just talking rubbish... 

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

I guess they didn't want to lose any fans.  A little disappointing.

Make no mistake. Maiden are no politicians, and fans are no voters. We are talking about music, artistic expression, free expression. Ever heard of it?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

What, are you blind or do you live with your head in the sand?  What civilized religion glorifies cutting off heads in the name of God?  What religion promises you virgins in heaven if you strap on bombs and kill innocent non-believers?

No, Maiden didn't list anything in their lyrics specific to radical islam.  That is my disappointment with this song.  It seems they may have been afraid to offend anyone and perhaps lose some record sales.  This is definitely not the Maiden I grew up with.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Well, maybe you should leave the Maiden community and join the Prussian Blue one. It's perfect for narrow-minded rednecks like you. 

 

[SneakySneaky]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Indeed it seems that it's about religion generally,  but the last verses (He died for us...)  are clearly about Christianity,  am I wrong?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

You can see it like this, but keep in mind that Jesus is a prophet in all of the "big three" (Judaism, Christianism, and Islam), so we can simply consider that the lyrics deal with abrahamic religions, which anyway constitute the beliefs of the majority of the population on the planet.

Oh, and Jesus's message was one of love and tolerance, and he died died for it. He'd be quite cheesed off to see what atrocities have been committed in his name since he ended up on the cross... 

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

What civilized religion glorifies cutting off heads in the name of God?

Right, it's an old cliché, but...

But Israel binding himself by vow to the Lord, said: If thou wilt deliver thus people into my hand, I will utterly destroy their cities.
And the Lord heard the prayers of Israel, and delivered up the Chanaanite, and they cut them off and destroyed their cities: and they called the name of that place Horma, that is to say, Anathema.
-Numbers, 21:2, 3

Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. (...) And as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide. (...) God wills it!
-Pope Urban II, Council of Clermont, 1095

(...) First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. (...)
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. (...)
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb.
-Martin Luther, The Jews And Their Lies, 1543

I'll think of some more when I have the time.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Like I said before: can't we just leave Steve his poetic license for once? To me, his lyrics are art, not a documentary... (Well, mostly. )

 

[Anomica]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

What, are you blind or do you live with your head in the sand?  What civilized religion glorifies cutting off heads in the name of God?  What religion promises you virgins in heaven if you strap on bombs and kill innocent non-believers?

Does the word crusade ring a bell? A very civilized religious practice, that. And the inquisition, which nobody expects Or how about the protestant-catholic problems in Ireland? No, no other religions ever did anything bad...

 

[Genghis Khan]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Maiden Forever, your post is exactly what I meant when I said that some will misinterpret this song.  (See beginning of FTGGOG thread).  Islam is not in itself violent, but rather some zealots who cannot think for themselves misinterpret the Koran and abide only by the parts that suit their immediate needs.  That sounds familiar.  The Catholic Church has done this for centuries.  The excuse given for the crusades, the preaching that church reformations are bad... I could go on.  Nowhere does it say "...and thou shalt molest little alter boys" yet this stuff happens all the time.  Clearly, religions can be easily distorted, partially because the main sources of faith (The Bible, The Koran, The Torah, etc) are ambiguous and partially because there are irrational people in this world.

Also, unlike the claim you make in your lament, Maiden (Bruce in particular) is not overwhelmingly concerned about offending people, because they try to stay true to the nature of the song or events around them as best as they know how.  I seem to recall: a) Bruce ranting at an Ozzy concert about the decline of metal and the decline of the godfather of metal; b) Bruce proudly waved the Union Jack during The Trooper in Argentina and was hurt when the fans did not appreciate it; c) The song Monsegur clearly criticizes the historic injustices committed by the Catholic Church; d) The band played Sign of the Cross in catholic South America.  All of these instances happened in the last six years, so I don't know what you're talking about when you say "this is not the band I grew up with". 

There is actually a thread called, I believe, "How did they feel" in the General IMC Discussions that brings up the question of political correctness when playing certain songs in certain countries/cities.  I suggest you read that, Maiden Forever.  Food for thought.

 

[Raven]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Does the word crusade ring a bell? A very civilized religious practice, that. And the inquisition, which nobody expects Or how about the protestant-catholic problems in Ireland? No, no other religions ever did anything bad...

That's not religious.  At least, not any more.  It's so ingrained in the braindead minds of the populace that the hate is given without a second thought.  The Northern Irish are (apparently) renounded for their friendliness to tourists (if there's money in it), but they're the first to take offence at anything.  God, I love my country, but perhaps I could somehow remove most of the people from it?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

First of all, I'm not a red neck.  I've been listening to Maiden and going to their concerts before guys like you learned how to crap.  I am a conservative, if that is what you were trying to infer, and I am sure you are as liberal as your idols (a.k.a. the hollywood whores).  And you want to know why you are that way?  It is because you have been taught to be "politically correct" and "sensitive".  You are one of those who will allow those idiots to crap on your country, but you will not raise a finger for the boys who are giving their lives to protect the freedoms you take for granted.

I bet you cheered for that madman from Iran and laughed with Hugo at the UN as they were mocking western civilization.  What you don't realize (or choose to ignore) is that one day it will be too late.  I'm not here to say the world is coming to an end, but I do think there has to be a voice to show some opposition ".. and spit back in theor face".  I was hoping that the metal bands that I grew up with (the leather, the motorcycles, the fist in your face) would raise their voices as one.

Have you hear of The Trooper, Run to the Hills, Aces High, Alexander the Great,.....?  Don't tell me that Maiden does not have political views.  The only difference is that there was a common voice against "the bad guys" in the past.  Today, our political leaders have turned to wimps and we as a society have been taught to be politically correct.  For crying out loud, they cut our heads off and we can't play loud music while we interrogate these killers.  No one protests in the streets as those maniacs hide behind women and children, killing and maming the helpless in a perverted view of their jihad.

Yes, the song does make reference to the cross.  Do you know why, or do I have to explain it to you?  It's because it is ok to make fun/critisize/laugh at western civilization.  There is no major outcry from Christians or Jews everyday as we see the decline of the western civilization (from abortions to gay marriages).  But heaven forbid that someone say anything negative about the koran or draw a cartoon that (dare we say it) depicts their prophet in a not so positive light.  The crusades were brought up.  Yes, that was wrong, but we're talking almost a thousand years ago.  We as a society have become civilized since that time.  Perhaps not many remember that islam was spread by the sword as well.  Again, this was the past and we are living today (almost a thousand years later).  I agree that a majority of islam worshipers are good people.  But answer me this.  Why do we not see the protest and outcry from the islam majority who is good and peace loving.  Why do they not march in the streets and burn a poster of the osama loser?  However, when the Pope referenced and condemned violence by the extreme islam, they were burning posters of him, the German and US flags.

Grow up and open your eyes!  Maiden is not about being passive and being crapped on.  Don't tell me to leave the Maiden community, just because you don't agree with what I'm saying or you're too afraid to think about what is going on around you.  Bruce Dickinson still has fire in his gut and raises hell on stage.  But as a band (controlled by the record company) they have lost that spark.  "For the Greater Good of God" is a song of our times.  It is what is going on today, as we look the other way because we are scared.  "For the Greater Good of God" rocks!!!, I just wish Maiden had larger balls to bring their point across to idiots like you who have their heads in the sand!  Maiden is not just about selling records, Maiden is a way of life.  I miss the Maiden of old.

"....I said you're blind, too blind to see!!"

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

The very first thing I would like to note, Maiden Forever, is that there is a world outside of the United States. Most of the people who post here are from that world, and in this world exist more political opinions than the categorisation into "liberal" and "conservative" you are used to. Most of us quite frankly couldn't care less if a Hollywood star likes to have a photo of themselves taken with a starving child because we know that this does not change a thing.

The US are not identical to the western civilisation. While US-American and European cultures are rather closely related, they do have notable differences. One of them is that Europe got devastated by two world wars, which led most Europeans to rethink the path they were on. They learned that not everybody is out to kill them and they should be more open to other cultures instead of surpressing them. Sadly, the self-declared "leaders" of this free world (how paradox is that anyway?) have no real understanding for what happened in Europe. The Americans do not understand why most Europeans are less ready to wage war because they did not have their towns leveled and their countries razed by their own stupidity.

You mention a couple of Maiden songs to underline your views. While it is completely understandable for me that you want to interpret songs of your favourite band to match your own political opinions, you seem to have put on the blinkers. For every "The Trooper", there is a "Die With Your Boots On". For every "Aces High", there is a "Two Minutes To Midnight". I suggest you read these lyrics as well.

I know you and most other Americans were deeply shocked and hurt by the "9/11" events. Any moral person agrees that this act was brutal and pointless. However, it was not completely uncalled for. Americans and Europeans may dwell in their freedoms, but the fact of the matter is that these freedoms are not only paid for by the blood of "our boys" in the field (and besides- give me a good explanation how the soldiers in Iraq are defending my freedom), but also with the blood of other people who have never been lucky enough to have a full refrigerator, an own car or to voice their opinions on any kind of public forum. American and European companies are exploiting poor countries as we speak, supporting dictators such as the ones in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria or Pakistan for their own profit. Other countries, which do not offer enough ressources to be interesting for Western countries are completely disregarded and often cut off from any sort of help.

We all are as disgusted as you by religious fanatics massacring innocent people. However, the truth is that the Western World is as responsible for these kinds of actions as those who act. Pope BeneDICK should have been more considerate when talking about Islam in his speech- it is a well known fact that to most Muslims, their belief is no laughing matter. President Bush should have thought twice before calling the war on terror a "crusade"- and so on. The more people are exposed to words of foreign leaders, the more can be insulted in their own beliefs. Believe it or not, but calling Muhammad a "terrorist" is just as or even more insulting to a Muslim as it is to you when somebody burns an American flag.

I know I sound like a preacher, but the truth is that the best and only efficient way we can protect ourselves in the long run is by stop thinking merely about ourselves and open our eyes to the problems of the world, many of which were caused by the countries we happen to live in.

And just for the fun of it, here are a couple of quotes from "The Maiden you grew up with"...

White man came across the sea
He brought us pain and misery
He killed our tribes killed our creed
He took our game for his own need
-Run To The Hills

Around the world the nations wait,
For some wise word from their leading light.
You know it's not only madmen who listen to fools.
-Total Eclipse

Taunting us with Visions,
Afflicting us with fear,
Predicting War for millions,
In the hope that one appears.
-Die With Your Boots On

As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy
We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies.
(...)
As the madmen play on words and make us all dance to their song
To the tune of starving millions to make a better kind of gun.
-Two Minutes To Midnight

When it all comes down the line,
And the lights they turn to greed
And you race off with your tires screaming
Rolling Thunder,
And the people choke with poison
Children cry in fear
-Public Enema Number One

Contaminated waters
Pollution and decay
Just waiting for disease to strike
Oh will we learn someday?
-Childhood's End

 

[Belenor]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

Well, sometimes I wan't to wipe all those islamic beings out, but the other day I tell myself - is this what a good person should do? Be angry and be a victim of a bloodlust? It is not easy. The Bible says something like do not return hits, give them bread instead. But doing this may lead to death. So should we become men of war? Or stay being men of peace?

My wife often says we should stop supporting Africa or Near east and those poor beings will deal with themselves alone. Maybe they would become a peaceful people that way. Current state of things looks like we give them money and they eat up everything and call for more (or sometimes kill us). But this is not the right way, is it? But that's what people are all the time - everybody wants to live without any effort. In the past, such people died. In these days, there is always somebody to "help", but does this help anybody?

If the "civilized" world keep supporting the "uncivilized", the "uncivilized" will have a plenty of time to do stupid things like terrorist raids instead of trying to make some food. Well, yes, there is a problem with a black gold, right? Hehe, hmm. Too bad, there is no simple solution, oil is needed. In fact, we give islamists money to kill us. I'm not sure, but both religions (islam, christianity) should be spread, right? So they are spreading it - by a brute force. As did christians some hundred years in the past. Well, Mohammed lived in seventh century? Yeah, maybe. So it is a good time for "crusades" (= jihad) now. Thousand years in the future, there will be a peaceful islam. Similar to christianity, right. Or there will be no people at all, after the third world war. We are lucky christians did not have atomic bombs to use on their crusades

Oh what? Have I lost myself in a babble? Hehe, sorry Ok, the Greater Good of God, yeah, my favourite german writer Karl May did ask himself the same question and ultimately became pacifist. Heroes of his novels tried to do no harm or kill even if they were forced to fight. And this is all people should do even if it is not easy. Take their weapons, show them how to earn living without fight. Easy to say, hard to do.

(Okay, I know, I'm babbling again What is the limit? Ten stars? All right then, giving ten stars to this, I love it espesially when I play it on guitar. In fact, I don't care what the lyrics are if it's not a stupid song of love, babes everywhere etc. I believe you know what I mean.)

(Oh and sorry for my English, I'm not native.)

 

[Anonymous]

Re: 'For The Greater Good Of God'

my favourite german writer Karl May

That's funny, I didn't know he was so popular outside Germany