European Politics

[bearfan]

I am sure the US has the same level of cheating. Look at what happened in baseball yesterday. I do not think the US government is involved for the simple fact the government has nothing to do with the Olympic team. The Olympic team falls under the USOC which receives no public money.

There are huge amounts of money at stake for these athletes, especially those in professional sports or the more high profile Olympic sports that people think it is worth the risk. I do think baseball is about to turn a corner on this as the clean players seem fed up with the cheaters and the union is slowly backing off what level of testing they will permit and the length of suspensions without pay that will be allowed.

 

[Forostar]

It's been a big issue for many years, and each year the controls have been intensified, and each year there are new drug scandals. Don't you people get tired of that at some point?
.

Well, the top 10 from this year is very different from last year. So it looks like a fresh start.

 

[bearfan]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/08/romanias-recent-past

Lengthy article, the main points to me are that 1/2 million political prisoners were locked up and 100,000 killed in Romania from 1945 to 1989 and there seems to be little zeal to arrest and try those responsible and that many are still in positions of power. This seems to be common in the former Warsaw Pact countries.

 

[bearfan]

This is a stupid idea ... and I say that being a person who generally does go one day a week without meat

MUNICH, Germany -- With six campaign weeks left until national elections, one issue is dominating political debate: Germany’s meat-heavy diet, including the country’s most famous dish, the sausage.

The Green Party prompted uproar with an election pledge to introduce a weekly vegetarian day.

One day each week, workplace cafeterias at federal government institutions would be banned from serving any meat dishes or products, which the Greens hope would become a model for corporate and school canteens.

 

[Perun]

Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. I've always supported the Green Party, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to defend the ideas they are coming forward with. As if those were the problems we're dealing with.

This September may well be the first time I'm not voting for them.

 

[Onhell]

At this point I am pretty much assuming everyone in competitive sports is cheating to some degree. It is unfair to those who are not, but as more and more is uncovered in various sports nothing really surprises me.

AROD just got suspended for using Steroids forfeiting a salary of 25M. Considering he is worth 300M I doubt he'll miss it. The only thing hurt is his reputation which meant something at some point, but with that much money I guess one can afford to tarnish it.

 

[bearfan]

Since we do not have an Australian politics thread, I will put this here as this seems like something countries in Europe would do. Short version, whack job lady who does not like Muslims is running for office and probably will not win, but she is under threat of prosecution for a sticker

full article
http://www.ibtimes.com/australian-f...lam-country-jews-worship-jesus-christ-1378205

Banister, a welder by profession, is the longest of long shots to win a House of Representatives seat in her constituency of Rankin against Liberal David Lin and Labor party member Jim Chalmers. That position was formerly held by the retiring Labor MP, Craig Emerson. (Banister admitted she didn’t know who her opponents in the September election would be. "I'm still learning all of the names of people in politics,” she explained. “Everyone in the world has a lot to learn about day-to-day stuff and everything in life is just about learning."

As it turns out Banister, a mother of two children, is already facing criminal charges in connection with anti-Muslim activity, including placing stickers that say "Beware! Halal food funds terrorism" on Nestle products in a grocery store. If she is convicted of a criminal offense, the Australian Electoral Commission may rule that Bannister cannot run for public office.

 

[bearfan]

I have been reading that Greece may need another round of bailouts and that countries like Poland are delaying their entry into the Euro. I am becoming of the opinion that the Euro is a mistake in how it was implemented. In retrospect, some of the countries in it do not belong in it and I think countries like Poland are better off staying out of it for the foreseeable future and the Euro zone should put a halt to future expansion. It becomes more and more clear that the economies of some counties are so vastly inferior to those of countries like Germany, France, Belgium, etc. that they do not belong in the same currency. The union works if countries are on a relatively even playing ground, but I am not sure how long Germany can be expected to bail out those who have managed their economies poorly. At some point if your indebted relative keeps coming over with his hand held out and is unwilling to make needed lifestyle adjustments to live on their income, you need to slam the door in their face.

 

[Rotam]

I am becoming of the opinion that the Euro is a mistake in how it was implemented. In retrospect, some of the countries in it do not belong in it

Well, i'm completely against that idea that some countries belong in one system and others don't.

"The union works if countries are on a relatively even playing ground"

The European Economic Community (or the EU before Euro) never, absolutely never, worked on even playing ground. There always was vastly economic differences between the members. The point for EEC and EU was prosperity and peace for all members, not just a few of them. And the undeniable fact is that all of them did grow economically and socially.

" Germany can be expected to bail out those who have managed their economies poorly. "

Actually, Germany and France were the first to break the Stability and Growth Pact. Most of the European Union countries are above the 60% public debt, and are in or closing in recession.

"you need to slam the door in their face."

They are already doing that, with austerity.


The problem is not the currency. The problem is mainly economic. EU is being surpassed by other giants, namely China. We cannot compete with them, and there is a deindustrialization in the EU. Of course, the smaller economies will face problems first than the larger economies.

Don't forget that EU's unemployment rate is at 12.1% (June 2013), the Euro area government debt is
92.2% of GDP (first quarter of 2013) and the living standards are falling in most Member States.

If we don't have an European global strategy to solve a global problem, the more likely is that EU's dream will be over in a near future.

 

[Perun]

The Euro was a mistake for being introduced as a joint currency without joint financial politics. There was a lot of idealism and belief in good will and union spirit. I think that one day historians will look back on our era and wonder how the people who introduced a joint currency this way could have been so incredibly naive.

If we don't have an European global strategy to solve a global problem, the more likely is that EU's dream will be over in a near future.

An European global strategy would require an European government, and conspiracy theorists are already running high on the dictatorship of Brussels, and right-wing radicals on the loss of national identity. If we introduced a joint EU government at this stage, I doubt it would last for two or maybe three years.

For now, I am afraid the EU is a grand failure for having been consumed by its own bureaucracy, for having failed to develop a visionary strategy for the future, and for having failed to subdue national sentiments in favour of an European identity.

My outlook for the future is that either, Europe will go down like lead, kept alive only by Chinese and Russian investors, or that it will return to ill-spirited nationalist competition, sponsored by Chinese and Russian investors. Either way, popular unrest, triggered by rampant poverty, will do all to destroy the peace so hardly fought for over decades.

 

[Forostar]

Meanwhile some countries are not getting together: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23668589

....Spain said it had an "obligation" to police the border, and insisted its controls were legal and proportionate. A government spokesman also said Spain was considering taking the dispute to the UN Security Council, where it could seek the support of Argentina. He told the BBC that although the Falkland Islands - over which Britain went to war with Argentina - and Gibraltar were different issues, there were similarities between the two disputes.

The issues to be raised at the UN could include disputed waters, Britain's failure to comply with previous UN resolutions and the disputed stretch of land which links Gibraltar and Spain, he said. ....

I'd say let that legal action happen, and we'll see who's right about this according to international judgement (EU or UN).

 

[bearfan]

Twice the people of Gibraltar had an opportunity to vote on their preference of government, I believe the last time (2002?) it ran 90+% towards staying part of the UK.

Spain is doing this to distract from their own internal problems. This is a play straight out of the Franco playbook

 

[bearfan]

Well, i'm completely against that idea that some countries belong in one system and others don't.

That is curious, do you think all countries in Europe should be absorbed into the system? A common currency at a minimum seems to have a prerequisite of being on a generally similar economic standing. I am not opposed to that being a goal, but I do think they rushed in some members and now some are wisely delaying their entry.

The European Economic Community (or the EU before Euro) never, absolutely never, worked on even playing ground

But, they did not need to, they each had their own currencies and monetary policy. Certainly a crash in Greece would have still had an impact to the other countries, but not so large a drag on their currency. I'd also venture a guess that the strong position of the Euro vis-a-vis the dollar is harming countries like Greece in terms of exports.

Actually, Germany and France were the first to break the Stability and Growth Pact. Most of the European Union countries are above the 60% public debt, and are in or closing in recession.

It is true many countries around the world are running too high of a debt ratio. However countries that have a vibrant enough private economy can afford to carry more debt during downturns as they will have
revenue to manage the debt load.

Similar thing in the US, Detroit declares bankruptcy and people point to Chicago carrying a higher debt load. The difference is Chicago has a good tax base and the government is not the main employer in the city. They are having to cut back on some things, including public contracts, but they can ride this out.

The problem is not the currency. The problem is mainly economic. EU is being surpassed by other giants, namely China. We cannot compete with them, and there is a deindustrialization in the EU. Of course, the smaller economies will face problems first than the larger economies

That is a mistake, more and more the pricing of skilled labor in China is increasing and their main benefit of cheaper labor will decline over time. The EU countries need to be willing to accept a degree of industrialization coming back and actually encourage it through tax law. Again, they are hurt by the Euros position against China, which keeps their currency undervalued if anything.

A country like Poland can probably be in a position to compete with that with the Zloty, but not the Euro.

Don't forget that EU's unemployment rate is at 12.1% (June 2013), the Euro area government debt is
92.2% of GDP (first quarter of 2013) and the living standards are falling in most Member States.

.. and that sucks, but the standard of living was kept artificially high, this was bound to happen and again, the poorer countries outside of the Euro should be able to pull out of this quicker than the countries in the Euro as the standard of living was not as high before and their currency puts them into a better position to become exporters.

The Euro was a mistake for being introduced as a joint currency without joint financial politics.

I am not sure you needed identical policies, but at least similar ones. Perhaps a better move would have been multiple common currencies

An European global strategy would require an European government,

That is really the crux on the problem, how do you integrate a continent that has over the years tried to destroy one another in the lifetime of the people affected or their immediate offspring. Look at the merger between US Airways and American airlines. Companies with a narrow focus and no real disagreement between them, it will end up taking 4 to 5 years to fully integrate. Expand that to countries with disagreement (some legit, some traditional) on the scale of an entire economy. That may take a century.

 

[LooseCannon]

A century is about how long it took the United States to economically integrate - and it took a civil war to get it done, so that's not an inappropriate timeline.

 

[bearfan]

A century is about how long it took the United States to economically integrate - and it took a civil war to get it done, so that's not an inappropriate timeline.

I'd also say that is still not 100% smooth. There are some pretty varying economic rules from state to state. Obviously a common currency, but some reasonably different policies and states trying to poach businesses from other states is pretty common.

 

[Rotam]

The Euro was a mistake for being introduced as a joint currency without joint financial politics. There was a lot of idealism and belief in good will and union spirit. I think that one day historians will look back on our era and wonder how the people who introduced a joint currency this way could have been so incredibly naive.



An European global strategy would require an European government, and conspiracy theorists are already running high on the dictatorship of Brussels, and right-wing radicals on the loss of national identity. If we introduced a joint EU government at this stage, I doubt it would last for two or maybe three years.

For now, I am afraid the EU is a grand failure for having been consumed by its own bureaucracy, for having failed to develop a visionary strategy for the future, and for having failed to subdue national sentiments in favour of an European identity.

My outlook for the future is that either, Europe will go down like lead, kept alive only by Chinese and Russian investors, or that it will return to ill-spirited nationalist competition, sponsored by Chinese and Russian investors. Either way, popular unrest, triggered by rampant poverty, will do all to destroy the peace so hardly fought for over decades.

Yes, but Euro is still a very strong currency. For instance, Euro allowed some countries to kept their inflation quite low and stable compared to their normal high levels.

I agree with you about the bureaucracy of Brussels and the lack of vision and generally bad politicians.

But i still think we should fight for a better EU, for what it represented in the past. Bring back the Jeux Sans Frontières, for crying out loud.

 

[LooseCannon]

I'd also say that is still not 100% smooth. There are some pretty varying economic rules from state to state. Obviously a common currency, but some reasonably different policies and states trying to poach businesses from other states is pretty common.

Oh yes, but there's no interstate tarriffs anymore and a lot of interesting things and little quirks that existed in the runup to the Civil War. Economics at that time is really interesting. Easy to see how people considered themselves citizens of a state rather than the USA. I like the comparison between the two unions.

 

[bearfan]

Oh yes, but there's no interstate tarriffs anymore and a lot of interesting things and little quirks that existed in the runup to the Civil War. Economics at that time is really interesting. Easy to see how people considered themselves citizens of a state rather than the USA. I like the comparison between the two unions.

Right, even up to World War 2, Army divisions were mostly recruits from the same state. For example, one division would be composed primarily if not 100% from Tennessee. The growth of Federal Power during WWII and the patriotism piggy backing from WWI played a large role in uniting the country.

However, in Europe, I do not see a continental patriotism existing for some time, if ever. The US also had the advantage of us all speaking the same language. It seems hard for a German to be a compatriot of a Frenchman if decent portions of the population cannot speak to one another. Add in all the other national languages and that presents a huge hurdle for integration. You cannot expect the average citizen (or really anyone) to learn 20+ languages and the odds of a common language seem slim to none.

 

[Rotam]

That is curious, do you think all countries in Europe should be absorbed into the system? A common currency at a minimum seems to have a prerequisite of being on a generally similar economic standing. I am not opposed to that being a goal, but I do think they rushed in some members and now some are wisely delaying their entry.

That is a mistake, more and more the pricing of skilled labor in China is increasing and their main benefit of cheaper labor will decline over time. The EU countries need to be willing to accept a degree of industrialization coming back and actually encourage it through tax law. Again, they are hurt by the Euros position against China, which keeps their currency undervalued if anything.

Oh, that's even worse than cheap labor, Bearfan.

China's gdp is already the size of Germany-France-Netherlands-Slovakia-Malta combined. I wonder what China's gdp will be with only skilled labour.

That is really the crux on the problem, how do you integrate a continent that has over the years tried to destroy one another in the lifetime of the people affected or their immediate offspring. Expand that to countries with disagreement (some legit, some traditional) on the scale of an entire economy. That may take a century.

It took less that 50 years to unite most of the Western Europe into a single Economic purpose, and it worked.

However, in Europe, I do not see a continental patriotism existing for some time, if ever. The US also had the advantage of us all speaking the same language. It seems hard for a German to be a compatriot of a Frenchman if decent portions of the population cannot speak to one another. Add in all the other national languages and that presents a huge hurdle for integration. You cannot expect the average citizen (or really anyone) to learn 20+ languages and the odds of a common language seem slim to none.

That is the main issue here and something that i think European politicians don't understand. EU should never be like the US or other world power.

The Union should be about common economic, fiscal, military policies. Not patriotism. There's no such thing, the European "patria" - even the romans knew that.

The main advantage of the EU above all the others world economies is that we have different cultures and history, and that is wealth, not a disadvantage. Having different official languages, is like EU is saying, look at our "rich" cultures combined.

I don't need to learn English to feel that i'm part of a larger world. No one will destroy the neighbor if they coloborate. If there are prosperous democracies, no one will complain.

The rise of the extreme regimes in the 1920's and the 1930's was for the main part the lack of prosperity. No one wants that again, right?

EU needs to understand their members' necessities are all different, and each one should grow with different types of industries and markets.

And that idea that the north is "working hard" and the south "is burning their bodies" needs to end, right now.

 

[bearfan]

No, the EU should not try to mimic the US, but the US is a good example of as close to an ideal situation as you can get for integrating differing economies and that was still incredibly difficult. But happened in part because of a want to do it, but was spurred by necessity and external events over coming internal strife. In other words, it happened mostly organically. The EU is not growing organically, especially with currency.

It seems a wiser course would have been to step towards that. Things like the Schengen Zone, specialization of armed forces, some common regulation in terms of law enforcement, vehicle codes, etc all make sense and could have lead to a more organic coming together.

For something as important to a nation as their currency, it seems foolhardy to put that at risk by bringing in members with lesser economies. That has nothing to do with perception of who is doing how much work, but measurable economic measures.

The lack of a common patriotism makes this all the harder, when things go wrong, people my nature look locally and that will always be along the lines of family, city, state/region/country/and last being international obligations.